ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found

[lonepigeon]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

A lot of separate hings being discussed here. Many blasters being confused with one another.

Here's a brief OT SW Mauser rundown:

ANH Hero - Real Mauser, blank firing
ANH Alternate aka "Greedo Killer" - MGC
Merr Sonn "Power 5" - long barrel, resin
Merr Sonn "Model 44" - short barrel, resin (essentially a broken version of the other Merr Sonn. They were both identical at some point)

ESB stunt - resin, cast from ANH Hero upper and lower (pre-grill or "mystery disc"). There's no sign of the disc indentation or removal of the grill. I've confirmed the serial numbers and the frame is the same. My best guess is that it's from a casting or mold taken during ANH production perhaps to make lightweight holster versions, but there is no confirmation of any such resin ANH Han blasters.
ESB Hero #1 - Real Mauser, blank firing, Commonly referred to as "Luke's" because it's most often seen in Luke promo stills, but was also used by Han when a blank-firing gun was required.
ESB Hero #2 - MGC, Commonly referred to as "Han's" but also used by Luke in many scenes. The ESB blasters were all interchangeable between the two characters.

ROTJ Hero #1 - MGC
ROTJ Hero #2 - MGC
ROTJ blank firing #1 - Real Mauser, checkered grips, used in bunker exterior scenes shot in the US
ROTJ blank firing #2 - Real Mauser, bull barrel, likely what became of the ANH Hero, used only in the UK Endor bunker interior "firefight" scenes (which were all cut from the final film)

So that's 9 confirmed Mausers used by Han in the original trilogy, 4 of which were capable of firing blanks.
As far as I know 3 of the blank firing guns stayed in the UK (Han Hero, ESB Hero #1, and ROTJ blank firing #2). They were rentals and likely dismantled after each film. Two of those were likely the exact same bull barrel gun converted twice.
The other blank firing built by Stembridge for ROTJ stayed with Stembridge after production and was eventually sold when they closed (mentioned in the auction link above).

Lucasfilm currently owns ESB Hero #2, ROTJ Hero #1, and ROTJ Hero #2. They probably have more, but that's all I can confirm for certain. Post-ANH they did have the ANH Alternate and the two Merr Sonn's, but I have not seen any recent confirmation of the location of those props.
At least 1 ESB stunt is in a private collection.

The Luke Dagobah pic posted above is the ESB stunt.
There were multiple copies and they were also used in ROTJ.

Hope that helps clarify things.

 

[lonepigeon]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Very interesting!

The $201,600 dollar one looks like a real Mauser. I didn't realize they used real Mausers in rotj besides the bunker gun. A beautiful blaster for sure though. The second one is a MGC. Weird, aside from the mausers they're both pretty much the same blaster!


-Carson

The "second one" is built from production-made (but not used) conversion parts. It's built on an MGC, but the gun is not an original prop.
Those parts are the fraternal twins of the parts used on ROTJ blank firing #1.

 

[deadbolt]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Wow Thanks for the great info, Chris! That certainly clears allot of things up.

Allot more blank firing Mausers than I realized too. Do you happen to know if they altered the muzzle flashes for the films?

I'm starting to love the ESB stunt blasters more and more after getting a better look at them recently. I wonder if it's possible that the ESB stunts were molded after the grill and paint was removed from the ANH Hero. If so that would mean that the mystery disk wasn't permanent. Have you seen any hints of the ESB stunt blasters being made post-ANH?

Also does there happen to be any decent left side pictures of the ROTJ Bunker Blaster?


-Carson

 

[lonepigeon]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Have you seen any hints of the ESB stunt blasters being made post-ANH?

The ESB stunts are surprisingly clean. (hence why I could clearly read the serial number of the receiver). No marks whatsoever where the ANH grill and "mystery disk" would have been. The scope bracket mounting points seem to match up with the ANH scope mount. I would guess the gun was molded around the time of the well-known, color, pre-production ANH photos (no antenna sight, grill, or disk) and the scope was removed for casting.
No hints at all of it being post-ANH. I inspected one very closely in my own hands.

Also does there happen to be any decent left side pictures of the ROTJ Bunker Blaster?

That blaster is THE worst OT Mauser to find any reference of. There are only a few shots of Han holding it from a distance. Most of what we know about it is speculation. It has a bull barrel that seems to match the ANH blaster, but there's an added extension and flash hider making it really long. It also appears to have the Hensoldt scope mounted backwards, but higher than the ANH so the mounting bracket must be different. Maybe the Hensoldt on a ROTJ style mount?
Here's the best pic of it:

Official Pix also sells the photo...
Store - Product Detail
I'm sure someone here has a high res scan. I can't find it right now.

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

That's quite a rundown of history Chris. Thanks!

So It would seem that the original as used Han ANH blaster is no more. If rebuilt as the bunker gun it had been changed from the ANH configuration a lot. (not only putting the scope in backwards) Looks like a much longer barrel, (maybe the second section of NR barrel? A long weird FH, and no Grill or Disk. If it is the ANH gun than our HERO is truly lost and at best could only be "recreated".

Are there any good photos of the bunker gun?


) Thanks Chris for above(


Star Wars - Episode VI: BUNKER REDUX (Deleted Scene) - YouTube

This shows the bunker scene fairly well and you can see a magic trick as Hans blaster turns from the weird bunker gun to the ROTJ blaster.

I tried a quick overlay of the ROTJ HERO and the ANH for the bolt hole line up and it is close but looks like the ROTJ mount holes are more toward the center.

What is that mount used on the ROTJ? Is it pre existing with holes or was it drilled. If pre existing it would be a really strange coincidence that the holes line up, but if drilled, no prob.

I cant tell for sure from that pic of the Bunker gun, but that may be a SKS mount. The hole looks round and in some of the freeze frames the bar sticks out on the side really far, may be the nut on the crossbar.

Also There is a frame that shows the top view and the scope is almost centered on top of the gun.

Two things. 1: A Mosen type mount lets the scope be over the gun.
2: with the scope over the gun it could not fire blanks, and if you watch the clip, Han never fires for real, no muzzle flash, only laser bolts from a hidden angle.


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/ksi_mount_003.jpg

In this clip from ESB you can see how they did the shooting at Vader.

have a look at 1:07, Han shooting, You can see the gun change to the PFC!

Star Wars Bloopers - Episodes IV, V, VI - YouTube

 

[deadbolt]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Thanks, Chris! I bet it was pretty awesome getting to hold an ESB stunt blaster. :love

have a look at 1:07, Han shooting, You can see the gun change to the PFC!

Star Wars Bloopers - Episodes IV, V, VI - YouTube

Now that was crazy seeing that..Such a strange way to film it! And we get to see the pfc too, nice find!

Did you see them tossing the stunt blasters at Vader?..:lol


-Carson

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Chris:

Thanks again for the Mauser breakdown. I am not sure how you placed the "Luke" ESB with Bull Barrel. Did the ESB Version ever live fire or was it only configured to make the casting like the MerrSonns?

Any photos of the ESB Mauser before they cast it?

If after ANH, the Hero was disassembled, I guess that would explain why Han needed a new design for ESB and they left off the Grill etc to make it easier/less damage prone?

If the ANH/NR gun is actually the Bunker gun with the second length of barrel (why...who knows) and the mount is not the ANH mount (and it does not seem to be) then you'd have to assume that the ANH mount and FH could not be found again to rebuild Hans blaster.

## I looked at the NR barrel shots. The second barrel part is too long!

At any rate, it seems that the ANH HERO as we know it does not exist any more. Too bad they did not make a cast off of it!

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Here are some screen grabs from the bunker scene.

I did an overlay of the HERO (RED) and Bunker gun with a SKS mount (orange)
sized on the ring position.

Seems the HERO mount does not line up and can't be due to the scope sitting over the barrel in the top shot. (unless mounted inside out) The hole appears round as well but it is a bad blow up.

Looks like there is a cross bar similar to the HERO and the nut position lines up fairly well. Maybe they mounted a cross bar like the HERO and attached the SKS mount on top?

No disk or Grill visible

Waiting for a HD image!

 

[jheilman]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Impressive info as always guys.

 

[lonepigeon]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Chris:

Thanks again for the Mauser breakdown. I am not sure how you placed the "Luke" ESB with Bull Barrel. Did the ESB Version ever live fire or was it only configured to make the casting like the MerrSonns?

I think you misunderstand. The ESB Hero #1 ("Luke's") does not have a bull barrel. It's not related to the ANH Hero in any way. No castings were made from it.
BlasTech DL-44

The ESB stunts are completely resin and made from an old mold leftover from ANH (or recast from an old ANH casting). That mold was made before the ANH Hero was complete (pre grill, disc, antenna greeblie etc). The mold was made after the Merr Sonn mold.

No part of the ANH Hero seems to turn up during ESB production.

Strangely, the ANH bull barrel reappears in ROTJ.
I think the "cross bar" on this version may be an ROTJ mount backwards. It would put the scope/ring/mount combo up about the right height. It appears to be the ANH mount (not an SKS) - it's just backwards, probably never detached from the Hensoldt since ANH.

 

[OdiWan72]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

I´ll do a mock-up of the "weirdo" blaster within the next days (probably tuesday) and post some pics...should be fun

Markus

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Thanks Chris for the clear up of the Luke Bull Barrel Stunt!

I agree, I also mentioned the ANH Scpoe rig being mounted backwards... really inside out and backwards since the scope is over the barrel, but it is sitting much higher than the ANH scope. (green)

The cross bar in the pic appears to be over Solos hand in the same position as the ANH Hero but the T bar is visibly higher.

Maybe the Crossbar bolt/nuts need to be in those particular areas due to the internals of the gun so all the Mausers, ANH, ESB, ROTJ have those two bolts in generally the same spot.

With no Disk or Grill showing, maybe it is a new lower receiver and is the ANH upper? As far as I know, IF the bunker gun was used outside the UK, the Upper could be exported without the "Lower Receiver" since only the lower (at least here in the US) is considered the GUN. Meaning you can buy barrels, slides, bolts, basically all other parts of a gun except the Receiver without an FFL.

The barrel still looks too short for the second length of the NR but may have been cut or made new.





The Hi Res pic could tell if there is a new dovetail rail made to attach the scope higher. They would only need a flat plate to attach the dovetail inverted. Dovetail inside out (would not show) and the plate attached to the Crossbar with the thumbscrew. (if it's still there)

The T Bar is sitting over the rear sight way back, so there has to be some unique angled adapter to join the Crossbar to the T bar.


From my viewing, I did not see Han "actually fire" any blanks with muzzle flash in the bunker scene. Anyone else see anything different?

At least it seems the Scope and mount and Upper survived to the time of ROTJ. Where could it be???


Looking forward to OdiWan's mockup!

I think you'll find the mount can not be flipped inside out and have the scope not hit the upper receiver unless the crossbar is as high as the upper receiver.

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Well, at least these parts will be good for building one of these weird Bunker Blasters too!


Any HI Res image around??

 

[OdiWan72]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

o.k., here´s my interpretation of the meager references.
Thrown together in about 10 minutes...
I used a ROTJ blaster as the base along with it´s mount to keep it somewhat consitent to all other ROTJ blasters (that´s what the prop-dept did, not counting the many variations in detailing, muzzles etc.).
I simply flipped the bracket put a piece of dovetail mount on the "rear" side to attach the ANH mount to and screwed it back on.
I´d had to use much bigger washers to give the ANH mount enough room and not collide with the C96 upper receiver. Please ignore the wrong detailing, pistons, washers etc. ...it´s just the overall setup I´m interested in atm.
I might also mention, that the ANH mount sits a tad too high, but this is easily correctable!
The C96 upper seems to be a live firing one (or a modified MGC with bull barrel attached, which I doubt), since the hammer is ******!
Opinions?

Markus

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

... that looks mighty close there Markus!

I never thought to try the ROTJ mount.

I'll do an overlay. The mount doesn't look that high to me a smidge, could be angles.

Nice work!

 

[dcarty]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Now that is really interesting! thumbsup

 

[OdiWan72]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

... that looks mighty close there Markus!

I never thought to try the ROTJ mount.

I'll do an overlay. The mount doesn't look that high to me a smidge, could be angles.

Nice work!

That is why I mentioned that I put the dovetail on too high, resulting in the ANH mount being too high as well. Hey...10 minutes of work without looking at the ref pics, what can I expect : lol

Markus

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

I think you got it very close already! Almost dead on!

If this isn't the answer... it should be!

...Now you have to find correct the FH!... but that one is nice

I guess theyd have to use a flat head screw or glue to secure the T bar to the dovetail?

 

[deadbolt]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Nice job, Markus! That does look pretty darn close.. Cool looking muzzle piece too! :thumbsup

I agree that definitely looks like the ANH mount on the bunker blaster. Whatever they used on the crossbar thumbscrew areas of the blaster looks like it hangs off the side pretty far and maybe bulkier towards the rear/left side basing on the top view of the blaster. I wish there were better photos available!

I wonder why they didn't build it up the same way they did for ANH, or at least similar. And why extend the barrel beyond other DL-44s barrel length? :lol I guess that's why it's called the weirdo blaster.


-Carson

 

[lonepigeon]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

o.k., here´s my interpretation of the meager references.
Thrown together in about 10 minutes...
I used a ROTJ blaster as the base along with it´s mount to keep it somewhat consitent to all other ROTJ blasters (that´s what the prop-dept did, not counting the many variations in detailing, muzzles etc.).
I simply flipped the bracket put a piece of dovetail mount on the "rear" side to attach the ANH mount to and screwed it back on.
I´d had to use much bigger washers to give the ANH mount enough room and not collide with the C96 upper receiver. Please ignore the wrong detailing, pistons, washers etc. ...it´s just the overall setup I´m interested in atm.
I might also mention, that the ANH mount sits a tad too high, but this is easily correctable!
The C96 upper seems to be a live firing one (or a modified MGC with bull barrel attached, which I doubt), since the hammer is ******!
Opinions?

Markus

Nice work Markus!
That's exactly what I meant in my post above.
I tried the exact same configuration with some line art I had and it looked about right.
It's cool to see it works with the real parts.

I'm pretty sure the base Mauser is the original ANH.
The bull barrel is about twice as long, but remember the ANH bull barrel is made to accept a threaded barrel extension.

I believe Kurtyboy has a high res scan of the Official Pix bunker photo.