What the hell Happened???

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maxhebus

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Hi guys.
What the hell happened?

I see that a few have been banned like Julien and that Mike S has left the RPF???
I thought that kind of Hobby was meant to reunite people....
I should not be that surprised after seeing again some stupid comments on who did what on this or that.

I personnaly think that is a sad day for Studio scale hobbyists on theRPF!
We've lost Julien who whatever we can say was always giving us the absolute answer on what part or measures to play with and Mike who made possible to a lot of us who do not have the same talent to have access to amazing quality studio scale kits.


Steph
 
This thread will probably get locked soon, but until then. Yeah it's crazy! We've lost some really talented people in the last 24 hrs. It's not going to be the same without those guys who are actually doing a lot of scratch builds. Sucks.
 
Apparently I haven't been reading the right sections of the forum, I didn't see any of this. The site is going to be a lot poorer for losing the scratchbuilders and we'll probably lose more over time. Sadly what will replace them won't nearly be worth the price.
 
The absence of such brilliant members of this forum is a great loss.
They are people who have inspired me and great help on many of my projects.
I would really like to know what felony have committed to deserve expulsion.

It's a very sad day. :cry

I can say exactly the same,....great inspiration & very wise & valuble help in the General Modelling section

John
 
Well, thats just great. When the hell did Julien get banned? I'm gutted that Mikes Slave build has"disappeared". Something extreme must be happening "behind the scenes" which the bulk of us who just aren't connected to the various groups are aware of. Yet another valuable build thread trashed and this loss of talent here is horrifying!!!!!!.
The Slave One model was the last of the studio scale grail builds left, so you'd think it would be point of celebration for everyone connected with studio scale forum but if anything it seems to have caused a direct split this weekend.
When I joined the RPF this forum was instrumental in getting me started on building resin kits. Given the cost and the very different techniques needed to help master building them alot of the threads here by the more experienced members of the forum and the makers of the actual kits was invaluable. Quite literally.
The pleasure I get from my SW collection owes an incredible debit to the likes of MIke Salzo for the kits he cast over the years. He has never been anything other than a superb professional. And not just him but the likes of Frank, Randy and a couple of others here who have helped out time and again when I had a problem and they stepped in.
The loss of the people who helped and established nearly all of the guiding principles of how these models were built and with what kits parts in this forum is gutting.
 
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This thread will probably get locked soon, but until then. Yeah it's crazy! We've lost some really talented people in the last 24 hrs. It's not going to be the same without those guys who are actually doing a lot of scratch builds. Sucks.


Why would this thread be locked?
We have some major Studio Scale masters that disappeared from the forum without real explanations or reasons. I find that a bit weird and worrying from a site like theRPF.
Now that some people decided to do some business with the infos they find on the forum is kind of OK. But to ban the ones that are just doing this just by passion.... I find that a bit harsh. it is, I believe, a forum for hobbyist before anything else. Did I miss a point?
Is there any moderation on this forum to avoid that kind of situation? To be banned should be mainly for really offensive posts. Not for position taking.
And it is just my humble opinion.

Stephane
 
The few and the choosen ones will have to show the way,..not sure if this is a good thing though.
Maybe if we all start building more ,sharing more and working together and make it ALL a "group effort" the appreciation for everybody's presents starts emurging again.
We did not design and made these original miniatures,..they merely inspire us.
Nobody over here at "owns"these models and nobody over here "owns"the kitparts used on them either nor the designs of them.(well maybe micky mouse)
It is inapropriate to get an inflated ego over all this."
We are merely copycats! ,only the ways how we copy,and the intensity and inventiveness we use is truly admireable and could be seen as "owned"
Sure i understand the secretivety of the information of,as an exsample, the donor kitparts(bidding wars etc.),..but did we not all start out with the help of others?
Some may need more help than others.
It isn't about the quantity of help,...help is help!
Some shared a lot of information and some did not,..sowhat?
Okay,.stealing ones design and taking the credit or even cash is a bad thing,..credit where credit belong!s,..but in the end all the credit really belongs to the original model makers and designers,producers of the miniatures.
Some here contribute only by feeding the egos of others with compliments and/or critique, to inspire to built even better models or to give a purpose to continue this hobby,.if that is what you need ..
To me personally his should be all about the joy of modeling and sharing information,..what else is the use of a forum/community?
Isn't this forum ment bo be a platform to show and share the things you enjoy in live and to connect with others and to appreciate it.
This shouldn't be a arena full with rivalery and envy ,an ego warzone,nor should this be a place to "prostitute" your talents just for the sake of sales..
To me this should be a place to show your interrests and talents as a means to fullfill the healthy human need to make contact and to communicate with others.
A place where you can find likeminded guys and girls, make friends find inspiration and find recognation.
I personally do enjoy visiting the threads of builders who struggle with their projects more than visiting the threads of those who are considered
"expert" builders(nothing for me to contribute there,..most don't even care about my opinion nor compliments,. and helping out with problems they face is out of my leaque)
I only can admire their works and perhaps learn a thing or two ,..if they care to share that is.
I found that this admiration prevents me most of the time from learning though but it gives inspiration that's for sure.
So,..WOW!!! is most of the time all that comes to my mind, not much more and of i have to go again alone!!.
Still some of these master builders can only wine and moan and bitch they have to do it all by themselfs and therefore noway they are willing to share anything.
Do they not want to "meet" others with whom they can make contact i wonder?
Some here are truly excellent modelers who do not need help from others.
The things they could gain here is either show off and feeding their ego(consider what's the compliment worth of someone who isn't in your league?) or the possibility to teach others,show the way etc...this must surely be a great satisfying thing.
If you are here only for egoinflation you probably are a very lonely person,almost but not quite yet "major league player" gaining stardom in the" little league"..floating between the the level of the masters who built the originals and the "amateurs"who struggle to built.
You will never ever be one of the reall major league players that's for sure(you couldn't survive a second with that attitude ,couldn't find the joy ,all left on your own),..most of the modelmakers we get our inspiration from are the ones who shared and cared and are remembered most fondly just for their company as a person.
Some are only remembered as great modelmakers with great,mediocre or poor design skills,but as a person nobody can/could stand them.
That's okay we have their models to enjoy sadly not their company,..their loss.
A few members sadly left us or being banned these last weeks,..to me their "spirit" remains.
They love to build models and that as a thing on it self is inspiring.
They shared ,to a degree, to get you good on your way to built your own project.
Most of the time they were very humble about their talents and always willing to share information.
They did not chew the food than spit it out so you could swallow,..they believe you have to chew your own,..just telling you were you could find the food,get it yourself and fill your belly in the hope they could communicate with you on a healthy ballanced level.
They just wanted to meet like minded people or experience other perspectives that's all
Maybe their critiques were not longer welcome to some but as far as i can see they had the right attitude towards this hobby and towards the members.
No harm in mind!
They visited Therpf and saw a place that once was inspiring and joyfull to them ,they immensly contributed to this forum in all kind of ways in my opinion and i consider it a big loss that they are not here today.
Try to look beyond the projects you see being built here,find the person behind it,connect with them.
The models are only a mean to connect with each other.
Use this connection to experience and hopefully enjoy the contact.
,...i can't think of another reason/purpose to be here,..you tell me!?
..I hope all works out fine in the end.
Now lets find something to chew on,.there is plenty for all of us.
 
In short, some guys decided to break the one unspoken rule on the RPF we don't break, and tried to get people in trouble with the studios because they don't like the business practices of a certain fella/the Slave 1 is a polarizing model that goes back to 2009. That bled over into any one that even remotely knows or builds that guy's castings. And in my case, they just absolutely HATE me. I have tuned it out because it's so over the top.

Add to that mix some pretty nasty stuff on Facebook and coordinated attack planning, personal attacks (for me, they mocked my hands being gimpy and my weight, but thank god not my model work! lol), and now one member is publicly posting pics of "secret" Gold Leader pics that they know full well will create an absolute firestorm for the originator of the pics. Those pics were of course shared in confidence ages ago, before the banned member showed his true mean-spiritedness. It's a calculated move designed to sow further strife.

And I for one am glad that kind of person isn't here any more. No matter how talented. There are other people who can and are patterning Y-Wings. No one "owns" the rights or knowledge to these models, except Disney. Look at how much is happening now, thanks to Dave G and the rest of you! It is a breath of fresh positive air.

I can only speak for myself when I say I do not engage them, I have them all blocked on Facebook, and I want them to leave me (and by extension my friends) alone. Maybe you newer guys ironically don't realize more talented IDers and scratch builders left a couple of years ago when this whole mess first started. How do you think I scratch built a T-16 Skyhopper with 35 donor kits? Those old timer non-posting members. A lot of studio scale work shifted to email and telephone because this forum has been seen as a hostile place for new (or old) members to post on, lest you get pounced on and told how wrong you are.

Will these old timers from the 90s and early 2000s come back now that the bullies have been banned? I hope so. But in the mean time yeah, every one's feelings are hurt, Mike Salzo is currently deciding to not post on the RPF as a cautious/protective measure so he's not attacked again, and I am going in the opposite direction (probably because I have nothing to lose, those guys hate me so much, lol) and I am going to try to post here more, now that I know I won't have every one of my posts met with sarcasm, snark, or wake up to screencaps and forwarded emails where I have been trashed in puerile and absolutely childish ways. It wears a man down, no matter if he is grade school or his mid-40s. I actually got a couple Facebook caps this morning, as they beat their war drums and try to keep the "war" going. A war that I stress only they seem to be waging.

I am a builder and a painter. I build kits, I build from scratch, and I do work for licensed companies. I work every day in my studio, and it is FUN. If I am not posting new things at the moment, it's because I am doing things under NDA and can't talk about it until the movie is released in December or the product is shown. I am always über busy, but I ALWAYS try my best to take to time to answer any emails or questions that come my way. It's easier for me to answer FB IMs for some reason as the PMs here stack up and I forget to check them (and on Facebook they are more in-my-face).

This forum is not going to wither. If anything, we just experienced a painful pruning of a diseased limb, and there are better days ahead.

I am working on something fun and new that I will post in a few moments... it's a scratch build, and when I am done and check it against the VERY little reference that exists, I will give you every Plastruct code you need if you want to make one too.

Do't freak out about this board dying. You are part of what makes it. If you are reading this and have been hesitant to post your work, post it now. Don't let all this silly drama dissuade you.

edit - and this whole "chosen one" or "messiah" stuff is a JOKE. A self-deprecating joke. I don't know if it was lost in translation between the US and European sensibilities, or if it was just a really easy thing to latch onto as it sounds juicy to think I have a god complex, but you can ask ANY ONE that knows me, even casually - I d not take myself seriously, and will be the first person to tell you there's better model makers around every corner. When Masterpiece Models wanted to do the greeblie packs he wanted to "brand" them with "Roboterkampf Approved!" in a playful way. It's absolutely my self-mockery. Most people have understood that, but because of the haters, I guess I need to add this caveat/coda.

I am at heart, sarcastic and self-deprecating. My ego is kept in check constantly because I can see with my own eyes how good every one else's models are. And I include banned member's work in that statement. I am really saddened the schism got so deep and wide, and that there was no reconciliation. If you all recall, I tried to mend fences with Guy publicly last year, and my olive branch was swatted away. What else can you do then, but just write the person off and ignore the vitriol? It's really and truly sad.
 
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Thanks Jason! As a new and young member on this forum, I found yesterday to be an even greater chance and reason to push stronger forward. To try and make up the lost ground and fill even the tiniest bit of the space that was lost so I can eventually become a good model builder and contribute awesome builds to this site! Your post really resonates me and is the type of thing I have been thinking since the banning happened. It was a when, not a why as far as those bans ever happening. So the sooner the better in a sense I guess.This way we can move forward from here and see where things take us :) I'd like to see some old members back too from threads I have subscribed to and seen postings from the early and mid 00's. That would be very cool to experience.
 
I just hope people don't get attacked any more. It's a terrible feeling. I have absolutely been an attacker, and I have been an attackee. When you realize you are yelling at a brick wall, you take a step back and realize you are wasting your time. It's like politics on the internet. But with plastic spaceships, lol.

I understand the gang mentality - you feed off each other and it is very seductive to feel righteous and you truly think you are "the good guys"... but there ARE no good guys or bad guys. Just people who do good and sometimes bad things, in what is sadly a very niche hobby, drawing battle lines and camps. It's unnecessary, damaging, and a waste of time. Think of how much more a member could have gotten built or made, if they weren't busy attacking, or busy reacting to personal attacks on the internet. The whole Jerseyfest weekend had a pall over it for us, seeing Salzo's thread go to hell. That just simply, in a word, sucks.
 
I think giving away all the information is very generous but not the best way to get people going or keep making this forum a healthy place to be.
It is better in my opinion to help them on their way by suggesting some and pointing in the right direction and let them experience the power and joy of team effort.
Together we are more than cappable of finding all the parts,dimensions and colour codes.
This together attitute is what we have to strife for.
That's what makes this place a joyous one.
Look at the y-wing threads the welding droid thread etc.all team effort.
Friendships are in the making this way not just models.
 
Amen to that. Some of my best friends came from this hobby. And a buddy recently had a great insight on part IDs (I am paraphrasing):

"just because you IDed a part, it doesn't mean you 'own' that ID. Even if you think you IDed it first. Because some times, it was IDed before you also found it, somewhere else. You can share it, or choose not to. But you don't 'own' that information, and no one is beholden to you forever if you choose to share it. If you ID a part, and tell people, and see it referenced down the road, and get upset that you were not credited, it's ridiculous. How do you know they too didn't find it? Or were told by another friend? It's not rocket science. It's not a secret and at this point most of the kits to buy are "out there" and searchable via sprue scans."

It is a RUSH to ID something. I just IDed a kit on a silly side project that no one had figured out (mostly because no one had ever ever bothered) and it was really gratifying. And I immediately told a friend about the kit in case it yielded a part on something else for HIS build since it fit the time frame (it sadly did not). But I certainly don't feel ownership of that data. That kind of thinking leads to some of the problems this board experienced, and was conceptually at the root of a blow out I had with a couple banned members, back in 2012, over the Probe Droid. When you look back at that, it's an embarrassing episode for all involved. Grown men fighting and sniping at each other over the idea that knowing some model kit information equals superiority and makes the other person somehow "less" of a model maker.
 
Yep.... That's what I thought.
All what you are saying didt explained what happened. just what you feel about those individuals. And that is not my problem. You guys did BAN a pack of people. Not just one that was "breaking" the ultimate rule. Which rule does not apply here for what I've read.
And lets be clear, I have no interest in one or the other "side". Far from it.
That's why I think serious moderation should be used on forums. No 10km long explanation will change that. It still does feel like agenda acting, like you describe the "other side acting".

Now, no need to answer this. I had enough explanation to make my mind on what happened and it makes me sad.
 
I'm not a mod, I'm just a member like you. So I didn't ban any one.

Also, please don't think I am trying to make a case for one side or another. I don't care who is friends with whom. Just that people treat each other with respect. And if you don't like a guy, just ignore them. It happens - that is life. Not everyone is going to like everyone else. But I can only speak about my experiences, so that's what you heard. Sorry if it sounded one sided - it was just my experience and it was coming from me, lol!

And I don't know everything that happened either, as it seems to have happened while a lot of people were at Jerseyfest.
 
Uncivility is a disease in any context (and more prevalent than, let say, 10 years ago). We're competitive animals at heart and some of us get an "orgasmic response" to withholding infos of any kind. They will gladly bring those "secrets" to their graves rather than share them with the community.:behave It's sad, in the end, that some of our former members have that disease. Very hard to get a cure for that one. Jason & others here who want to share everything are the in the right state of mind (as I am also).
We're just doing copies of originals, even done with vintage kits, it's still a copy at the end of the day.
I'm looking forward to scour the SS forum without the Drama with a capital D.
 
I've been on the sidelines of several of these disagreements... usually some time goes by people cool off, apologies are made and the group reunites over some new model discovery... This time it just blew up. And like everything in life there is plenty of blame to go around. I say this NOT knowing all the intimate details of this SNAFU, but just in general life this seems to be always the case - except for me of course - I'm perfect (sarcasm dripping)...

I do understand the feeling of "ownership" that comes from finding a new part, and gluing it on your model... its a total RUSH... but I'm also realistic enough to acknowledge that everything I do in this hobby is essentially copyright infringement.

I got along with most of the recently banned members, and I'm sorry to see them go. But Moffeaton does make a good point in that if people do not want to play nice, you need to stop playing with them. The banned members likely are feeling the same thing in reverse... some of them have been around a long time - and I remember when Julien first came around building things and asking for advice on paint colors... Its just a damn shame all around.

I'm holding out hope that fences can be mended, but understand if it can't be done or takes a long time.

Here's hoping that it all works out well...

Peace,
Jedi Dade
 
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The best thing to do, when you have "secret" information, is to just.... keep it to yourself.

The problems start with the winking and nodding "I have that pic/info, but alas and alack, I cannot share".... THAT is where the trouble starts.
 
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