STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

I'm not sure if Rex would make it to ROTJ because of the clone's accelerated aging. Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that particular commando had blonde hair/beard, not white.
 
The whole "accelerated aging" thing still irks me. There needed to be at least a smidge of dialogue explaining that it was built in obsolescence by the Kaminoans to force purchasing more product. Maturation and aging are different biological processes. The one would not encompass the other -- each would have to have been coded individually. And not necessarily the same doubled rate. We know, unless something happened post-ROTS that hasn't been shown yet, that the Kaminoans were well stocked with half-grown and embryonic clones that would see them through the next ten years of Republic/Imperial demand. If they were kept on to supply the Empire, they'd've needed a new donor or multiple donors, with the loss of Jango.

But that aside... If Rex was part of the first batch to roll out for the Battle of Geonosis, he'd be biologically in his early 20s through the few years of the actual Clone Wars. If, once he finishes maturation, his aging process kicks in at the same rate, by Rebels he's biologically mid-50s. Many men have their facial hair start going grey/white in their 20s, while their head hair doesn't, so the white beard is no real indication of extreme age. I'm 42 (yikes) and while I have a decent smattering of silver hairs showing up in my beard these days, I have none on my head. By ROTJ, he'd be physically early 70s. Couple the physical optimizing of an already robustly healthy donor with the unanswered question of the typical human lifespan in the advanced-medical setting of the Star Wars universe, and he's likely still going strong as of the Battle of Endor.

--Jonah
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
The whole "accelerated aging" thing still irks me. There needed to be at least a smidge of dialogue explaining that it was built in obsolescence by the Kaminoans to force purchasing more product. Maturation and aging are different biological processes. The one would not encompass the other -- each would have to have been coded individually. And not necessarily the same doubled rate. We know, unless something happened post-ROTS that hasn't been shown yet, that the Kaminoans were well stocked with half-grown and embryonic clones that would see them through the next ten years of Republic/Imperial demand. If they were kept on to supply the Empire, they'd've needed a new donor or multiple donors, with the loss of Jango.

But that aside... If Rex was part of the first batch to roll out for the Battle of Geonosis, he'd be biologically in his early 20s through the few years of the actual Clone Wars. If, once he finishes maturation, his aging process kicks in at the same rate, by Rebels he's biologically mid-50s. Many men have their facial hair start going grey/white in their 20s, while their head hair doesn't, so the white beard is no real indication of extreme age. I'm 42 (yikes) and while I have a decent smattering of silver hairs showing up in my beard these days, I have none on my head. By ROTJ, he'd be physically early 70s. Couple the physical optimizing of an already robustly healthy donor with the unanswered question of the typical human lifespan in the advanced-medical setting of the Star Wars universe, and he's likely still going strong as of the Battle of Endor.

--Jonah
Click to expand...

I can't say I agree with any of that. Mostly because you are making a lot of leaps about a science that takes place in a fantasy world. Your jumping to conclusions without knowning all the facts (facts as they exist is the Star Wars universe).

This is not an answer to your question but here is some canon info about clones after order 66.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_trooper

Dark Times

"Excuses won't suffice, Sergeant Crest. Perhaps you are aging too quickly to remain on active duty."―Darth Vader, threatening a clone veteran[src]

With the destruction of the Jedi, the galaxy fell under Sith rule once more. Darth Sidious—using his authority over the clone troopers, as well as his influence in the Senate and the courts—declared himself Emperor of the first Galactic Empire. Democracy and liberty came to an end with the fall of the Republic,[3] resulting in the rise of the New Order of the Sith.[19] In addition to the Republic's reorganization into the Empire, the clone troopers were re-designated as Imperial stormtroopers.[20]

As stormtroopers, clones obeyed the new Emperor's will, enforced his laws, and destroyed the enemies of the Empire[20] during the early years of the dark times.[21] In time, however, the clones' fighting skills deteriorated as a result of their accelerated aging process.[22] Ultimately, clones were gradually replaced by birth-born Human recruits who, like their predecessors, were trained for absolute loyalty and obedience.[20] Four years before the Battle of Yavin, most clones had been decommissioned by the Imperial Army.[23] A small number of clones remained in Imperial service, acting as training instructors for the next generation of stormtroopers.[24]

TX-828 nicknamed "Torrent," was among the last clones from Kamino who still served as a stormtrooper around the time of the Battle of Yavin. At that time he was nearing the age of forty due to his accelerated growth process, with strands of gray coloring his black hair. By then the rarity of TX-828's kind was such that ISB CommanderAlecia Beck was surprised to encounter a stormtrooper based on the original Kamino-produced template.[25]

Some clones, traumatized by the events of Order 66, felt bitter and horrified by their actions,[26] while others removed their control chips and remained active for a time and chose to support a growing rebellion against the Galactic Empire. They were especially dismissive of their replacements—the stormtroopers.[27]

CC-10/994, dismayed by his and his comrades' thoughtless execution of Order 66, argued with his subordinate Captain Styles over the morality of their actions. Distraught that his protest had landed on deaf ears, he destroyed their Gozanti-class cruiser which was in pursuit of Jedi Padawan Caleb Dume, the apprentice of Jedi Master Depa Billaba whom he had killed.[28]

Other clones such as CT-7567 ("Rex"), were still alive fifteen years after the establishment of the Empire. Retired and trying to live a peaceful life, Rex lived with two other retired clones—CC-3636 ("Wolffe") and CC-5576-39 ("Gregor")—in an All Terrain Tactical Enforcer. They each had a scar where their control chips were located. Rex would eventually aid the growing rebellion in its fight against the First Galactic Empire.[29][30]
Click to expand...
 
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karmajay said:
@halliwax I did not open this thread until today because I thought I missed a new episode!
Click to expand...

sucks doesnt it! LOL saturday will be here sooner then later...

- - - Updated - - -

Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
The whole "accelerated aging" thing still irks me. There needed to be at least a smidge of dialogue explaining that it was built in obsolescence by the Kaminoans to force purchasing more product. Maturation and aging are different biological processes. The one would not encompass the other -- each would have to have been coded individually. And not necessarily the same doubled rate. We know, unless something happened post-ROTS that hasn't been shown yet, that the Kaminoans were well stocked with half-grown and embryonic clones that would see them through the next ten years of Republic/Imperial demand. If they were kept on to supply the Empire, they'd've needed a new donor or multiple donors, with the loss of Jango.

But that aside... If Rex was part of the first batch to roll out for the Battle of Geonosis, he'd be biologically in his early 20s through the few years of the actual Clone Wars. If, once he finishes maturation, his aging process kicks in at the same rate, by Rebels he's biologically mid-50s. Many men have their facial hair start going grey/white in their 20s, while their head hair doesn't, so the white beard is no real indication of extreme age. I'm 42 (yikes) and while I have a decent smattering of silver hairs showing up in my beard these days, I have none on my head. By ROTJ, he'd be physically early 70s. Couple the physical optimizing of an already robustly healthy donor with the unanswered question of the typical human lifespan in the advanced-medical setting of the Star Wars universe, and he's likely still going strong as of the Battle of Endor.

--Jonah
Click to expand...

i seriously love your idea of thinking! i would have loved to hear that somewhere canon.
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
But that aside... If Rex was part of the first batch to roll out for the Battle of Geonosis, he'd be biologically in his early 20s through the few years of the actual Clone Wars. If, once he finishes maturation, his aging process kicks in at the same rate, by Rebels he's biologically mid-50s. Many men have their facial hair start going grey/white in their 20s, while their head hair doesn't, so the white beard is no real indication of extreme age. I'm 42 (yikes) and while I have a decent smattering of silver hairs showing up in my beard these days, I have none on my head. By ROTJ, he'd be physically early 70s. Couple the physical optimizing of an already robustly healthy donor with the unanswered question of the typical human lifespan in the advanced-medical setting of the Star Wars universe, and he's likely still going strong as of the Battle of Endor.

--Jonah
Click to expand...

Well I've got a bone to pick because I'm 39 and I've had gray hairs here and there for the last 9 years! :lol

Seriously I would think that if you accelerated the aging process to make the clones mature faster, then you probably also have the technology to stop that process once they are 18 or whatever age. I'm not sure what Lucas actually had in mind for that or what is canon, but the Legends books made it seem like they would continue aging at an accelerated rate until death.
 
Mara Jade's Father said:
I can't say I agree with any of that. Mostly because you are making a lot of leaps about a science that takes place in a fantasy world. Your jumping to conclusions without knowning all the facts (facts as they exist is the Star Wars universe).

This is not an answer to your question but here is some canon info about clones after order 66.
Click to expand...

Right. So far, in the new canon, there's nothing that says what happened with Kamino following the "Bad Batch" story arc of the Clone Wars. When Fives was running around trying to find out about the "tumor", we saw hundreds of still-gestating clones. This was only shortly before Order 66 and the Declaration of Empire. Unless Kamino was removed from the picture for some reason not yet given, those clones have a good nine years of maturation and training ahead of them before they're even adults. Torrent, in the Wiki article, is an example of that generation of clone -- pushing biological-40 during the OT. I think it's stupid that they have the Empire retiring Jango clones at that age. Real-world research has shown that older (as in, 30s to 50s) soldiers and pilots tend to have better reflexes and instincts than younger, due to having internalized their training over the years and other factors they're still studying. It seems silly to throw away a purpose-created resource when it's still in prime shape.

Regardless, even if that's the physiological age when the Empire retires their clones, that says nothing about how long they might remain physically vigorous. I don't see why it's a stretch at all to say that a setting where FTL travel has been established for tens of thousands of years, and comparable s/f technologies are equally well established and commonplace, where complex AI robots and antigrav vehicles are available even to subsistence farmers on outlying backwaters... that the medical technology of that setting wouldn't be equally advanced, and that it were commonplace in the civilized systems (and for super-advanced geneticists producing clone soldiers) for humans in good health to live significantly longer than the current average here in Reality-Land. I'm not proposing any figures, just saying that it's probably older than 70. Since I'm not talking about clones in Imperial service, but clones helping the Rebellion, it's relevant. And I'm saying it's not ridiculous for even first-generation clones like Rex to still be strong, clear of mind and eye, and ready to kick butt during (and even after) the OT. Doing the math, and presuming doubled rates throughout, he'd be (ironically) about 66 at the time of ROTJ. I know plenty of people here and now who are older than that and haven't even started to slow down.

--Jonah
 
Apparently, it was revealed in the latest ashoka book that they started phasing out clones within a year or two of order 66

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
...presuming doubled rates throughout,
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See, that's the kind of thing I am talking about. There is nothing in canon that states how they age once the cloners had them reach the age of maturity. Furthermore, if you are going argue that a universe with advanced technology should be able to have advanced medical technology, then why are you limiting the technology of the cloners. Why not in that advanced technology believe the cloners have the ability to have clones to stabilize the aging process in some way. Maybe not a 1:1 year ratio but maybe something slower than when they were first grown. Additionally, we are not sure what the estimated age of a ready for battle clone is suppose to be. Even if we know Temuera Morrison's age at the time of AOTC, it does not mean that is what the intentioned ages of the clones is suppose to be.

As fans, we have to accept canon and if information is not explained in the canon. So if the canon says:

clones' fighting skills deteriorated as a result of their accelerated aging process.[22]
Click to expand...

Then that is the way it is.
 
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Mara Jade's Father said:
See, that's the kind of thing I am talking about. There is nothing in canon that states how they age once the cloners had them reach the age of maturity.
Click to expand...

No, but everything in the old EU -- which the Story Group, once formed, maintained -- had the clones continuing to age at roughly the rate they'd originally matured. I have seen nothing in the new canon to alter, confirm, or negate. But I have a policy with the old material vis-a-vis the new of presuming nothing has changed until it is. I'd rather see the clones mature rapidly, then have that process slow after puberty and ultimately taper off to normal aging by their mid-to-late-30s. But.

Furthermore, if you are going argue that a universe with advanced technology should be able to have advanced medical technology, then why are you limiting the technology of the cloners.
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...I'm not...? But if you accuse me of wild speculation before, I'm not going to start slinging it around to other races or planets with absolutely nothing to point me that way. :p Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. On the flip side, we have a bunch about the Kaminoans using that specific sort of genetic med-tech, so I confine my speculations to that specific group of clones from that specific group of cloners at that specific time.

Why not in that advanced technology believe the cloners have the ability to have clones to stabilize the aging process in some way. Maybe not a 1:1 year ratio but maybe something slower than when they were first grown.
Click to expand...

That would be my preference, all the way back to the ancillary material coming out immediately post-AOTC having maturation and aging be presented as the same biological process, and at the same rate, for the Jango clones. But everything from the Ahsoka novel having the Jango clones start to be phased out within a couple years of Order 66, when the oldest of them are chronologically only about fifteen... to Rex's, Wolffe's, and Gregor's ages in Rebels... to Torrent being a middle-aged rarity when A) as a last-generation Jango clone, he was only about 18 at the time, and B) even first-generation clones, like Rex, were only slightly over 30. If you just tack ten years on to their chronological ages, to represent the accelerated maturation but no accelerated aging, not only should Rex's generation still be plentiful as veteran officers, noncoms, pilots, and instructors, but Torrent would be right in his prime as a soldier. ALthough no solid figures have been given, The Powers That Be seem to still be having them accelerate at the same doubled pace they matured.

Sidebar: Some of this is due to generational thinking. The people writing the material still have a tendency to think of the Clone Wars as something that happened "once upon a time" compared to the OT, despite the Prequels locking them in to having only been a couple decades prior to ANH. If General Kenobi was a white-haired old man in that film, than any age-accelerated clones muct be ancient -- or long dead. Most recently, we see this thinking in Daisy Ridley's answer to being asked if Jyn is Rey's mom. She dismisses the idea out of hand, because the events of ANH (and immediately prior) are forever ago compared to the setting of TFA. Luke and Han are white-haired old men, etc. "She'd be, like, my grandma, my great-grandma." Nope. Check yer math, Daisy. Jyn was an infant during the Clone Wars, so if we have her born around the time of AOTC (as a handy referent) she's about 22 as of ANH, and would be about 37 when Rey was born, and only in her late 50s as of TFA. Not saying she is Rey's mom (she isn't) -- merely pointing out the tendency of otherwise-intelligent people to presume the trilogies are farther apart than they actually are.

Additionally, we are not sure what the estimated age of a ready for battle clone is suppose to be. Even if we know Temuera Morrison's age at the time of AOTC, it does not mean that is what the intentioned ages of the clones is suppose to be.
Click to expand...

There's some tacit intention in not using Tem for the full-grown clones in AOTC (so when they're physically just at the tail end of puberty, they don't look like Jango yet), but within three years they do (Cody, Odd Ball, etc., in ROTS). Given when Sifo-Dyan commissioned the clone army and when Dooku recruited Jango, even assuming the Kaminoans being so experienced at this sort of thing that they needed no lead time and could get cloning instantly, the oldest clones at the time of AOTC and the First Battle of Geonosis were only 9 or 10 chronologically. They had to be full grown, to properly fit the armor, and as Bodie's presence indicates. So, biologically, they're late teens to early 20s by that point. And they fought pretty darn effectively in that battle, so I'd say they're ready by that age. *heh*

Also, regarding ROTS... So they look like Tem in his 40s by their mid-20s, biologically. War is hell, man...

As fans, we have to accept canon and if information is not explained in the canon. So if the canon says:
clones' fighting skills deteriorated as a result of their accelerated aging process.[22]
Click to expand...
Then that is the way it is.
Click to expand...

Doesn't say when or how fast or whether it's markedly different from how non-clones' fighting skills deteriorate as a result of their aging process. This is what I consider a non-fact fact. Yes, clones' fighting skills deteriorate as they get older -- same as everybody else! :p That line item cites A New Dawn, which is long enough after ROTS that yes, we're starting to see older clones like Rex age past their prime. And we know from elsewhere that the Empire is retiring them before they hit even that point, even though Rex demonstrates that they remain physically capable well into later life. So "deteriorated" needs to be qualified better. Context matters.

--Jonah
 
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Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
..But I have a policy with the old material vis-a-vis the new of presuming...
Click to expand...

And the is why at best you can only argue your point as speculation or opinion. Nothing wrong with speculating or option. However the downfall I see a lot on this thread is when fans start taking their own opinion as fact and in turn get miffed when when new canon material conflicts with their opinion and say that LFL is wrong when in fact it is not.


Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
Doesn't say when or how fast or whether it's markedly different from how non-clones' fighting skills deteriorate as a result of their aging process. This is what I consider a non-fact fact.
--Jonah
Click to expand...

That's what I consider denial. It is a fact, it just does not go into detail to the level you want. It's like someone looking at a picture of you and saying your not male because your penis isn't showing.

Listen, I'm not saying anything you have concluded is incorrect. I'm just saying your conclusions do not include facts in current cannon to support them. Maybe canon will unfold exactly as you say/think, but as yet, it has not. You cannot use old-canon which is no longer recognized in the EU in place of not yet revealed information and claim truth.
 
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