Functional Pip-boy 3000 Mk IV from Fallout 4

The last time I checked your thread was quite a while back and now I was reading everything I missed so far.
Mr. zapwizard, hats off to you. This is quality work at its finest. 3D printing really comes to life when people are using it like you do. I'm impressed with every no matter how small detail you put into your PipBoy and try to make it work like it does in-game. Astounding...

This is going to be THE PipBoy

Hey there, me again, I'm not sure I mentioned before, but perhaps a VFD display may be a more accessible substitute for your LCD woes and be more lore friendly by the by. Noritake VFD may even have the size you're looking for

https://www.noritake-elec.com/display/

They also produce LCD's and OLED displays so they might be a useful company to get into contact with to get something that fits. Tad pricey and I'm not certain if they make VFD's that support 3V supply but it's worth a shot probing their inventory.

Raveyote, I love the way Noritake VFD Displays look. I used one on my Radioactive Ammo PC back in 2006. VFD displays are super cool looking in real-life. They are bright and of course retro looking.

Here is a video showing the Matrix trailer on a 128x64 VFD. As you can see it isn't very high resolution. Their highest res VFD is 256x128 (Double what is shown in the video)
The screen has a 2:1 aspect ratio and a 83x41mm active area. While almost a perfect width, it would only halfway fill the vertical screen space.
Then there is the module size itself. At 131mm wide, the module would protrude past the rad gauge on the right side, and almost to the left edge of the Pip-Boy on the left.
On top of that the depth is 13mm, about 5x as thick as the iPhone display. Here is an image of the back of my Ammo PC showing the size of the module. (It was built before I stopped using hot-glue and a prayer to hold stuff together)

The final nail in the coffin is the power requirements. 5W if all the pixels are on. If I assume only 25% of the pixels are on, that is still 1.25W. It alone would drain the entire battery in less than an hour.




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The ideal display would be a 3.9" green/blue OLED display. They make 4.3" 16"9 aspect ratio monochrome OLEDs. But their display width is 108mm, far too large. I need 3.9" at a 1:1 or 4:3 aspect ratio. The 3.81" virtual reality display I posted on the last page is the closest I have found to perfect. But they want stupid money for them, almost more than the expected cost of the headset that will contain two of them. I may have to wait until the ThinkGeek "somewhat functional" deluxe Pip-Boy releases to see what display they used inside, hopefully it wasn't a one-off order. Most of the displays you find on Chinese websites only exist as surplus displays from other projects, or companies hoping that you will increase the order that another customer already paid for. The VR headset display being a perfect example.

I am also looking into researching small serial/I2C displays. These won't just be plug-and-play with Android or Linux, but can be driven with software. They make cheap 3.5" serial displays with and without touch-screens, but the resolution suffers greatly. The catch with most of these serial displays is that they are attached to larger PCB modules.

Thanks, I suspected the power drain would ultimately be one of the major issues with its adoption, but it's unfortunate that their OLED's don't fit within the constraints for the pip boy. Indeed finding a display that adequately fits our use is proving to be rather problematic. If there was a large enough volume of sales, would it be possible to have a custom display produced? Also another possible outlet I'm not certain if you've tried yet, is CCTV CRT replacement kits with LCD panels in the correct aspect ratio. I imagine they make them small enough but the difficultly is finding one with the correct power requirement and communications protocol.

Anywho I'll continue to keep an eye out for you, though out of curious it's what are the specific ideal dimensions for the display panel?

The CCTV analog displays typically have a adapter board that converts Analog video for the display. They don't take in a digital signal. Most of them are horrible resolution. I have a 3.5" CCTV LCD which I used to use for monitoring my old security camera. It cost only $10 and that price showed with poor contrast and resolution.

A custom LCD display run typically requires a 1000 minimum order quantity, and 8-12 weeks lead-time. Even if you find a display on Alibaba, and then contact the company, you quickly find those displays are either old which they can spin-up production for a fee, or they are just ad's for theoretical display that they have a design ready for, but no buyer yet. There are also plenty of surplus displays on the market, mostly from cell phones. Surplus displays suffer from their own issues, typically a total lack of documentation as that documentation belongs to the phone designer.

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My experience in this area comes from designing a 4.3" and 7" in-wall touchscreen about ten years ago. At the time nearly all 7" displays were huge thick things with cold cathode backlights. Samsung had just come out with a 7" thin LCD, made for use in the emerging market of portable handheld computers. (No tablets yet). We had to wait 6 months to get out hands on a small quantity of those displays. Now, you can get those same 7" displays almost anywhere, as they are used in tons of products. For the 4.3" LCD it was far easier, the Playstation Portable had come out the year before and the LCDs for it were super common and copied by everyone. Almost all 4.3" displays you find on the market now still match those original specs.

You can see this type of development happening right now in VR headest. The first Oculus literally used the front guts of a phone for the display. Then the next used a raw panel, still from a phone. Now they have the quantities to demand their own custom made LCDs. In a few years getting a high-res square MIPI display probably won't be as difficult as it is today. It's just how the market works.

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The ideal display would have a 75x65mm active area (3.9") With a minimum amount of bezel, and thin as possible, 640x480 resolution, and a MIPI display interface.
Most phones and digital camera displays now have a 16:9. Nearly every MIPI display except the VR headset one I mentioned is 16:9.

My current options are:
-iPhone 4 LCD, 3.5", 960x480 , MIPI interface. Issues: Can't seem to find without the glass attached, requiring cutting away the glass. Only have the pinout for documentation.
-3.81" VR headset display. 1080x1200 and MIPI. It's almost perfect. But alas they are asking $200-500 each. (Not really an option unless the Pico VR headset becomes commonplace)
-CrystalFontz 3.5" TFT display. 640x480 with a parallel RGB interface and analog touch panel. I either have to drive it with GPIO and lots of software tweaks, or to use two converter chips to get from MIPI to RGB.
-Newhaven 3.5" LCD. 320x240 with capacitive touch panel. This is the cheapest touch-screen option, but has the same issues as the CrystalFontz (or any parallel LCD)

I have a list of about 20 other "candidates" which I found in my searching, none of which seem the be available in small quantities.

Regarding the iPhone screens, are you useing the heat-gun method or the hot-plate method? I can't remember. I have a friend who works at one of the best lcoal smart-device-repair places. She said the hot-plate method works best, heated to 90*°C. This prevents the localized non-softened adhesive that is what tends to cause the glass to crack on removal attempt. She also said that the actual LCD element is [snooty French waiter accent]"wafer-thin"[/accent], and if you could find a way to keep the glass on, it would help with stability. She wasn't sure if the "waste space" of the screen surround could be cut down without it messing with the touchscreen function. We'd still have to research that...

And I'm still trying to hunt down other options.

--Jonah

Inquisitor Peregrinus said:

Regarding the iPhone screens, are you useing the heat-gun method or the hot-plate method?

Click to expand...

I have tried a heat-gun (multiple times). I have tried using a razor thin wire, and a credit card. Both methods resulted in something breaking. I may be able to get one good screen for myself, but nothing for a kit build. I haven't yet tried a hot plate, but all those that I have seen online use a razor wire, and I am not convinced that is a viable solution.

My next thing to try is using a diamond blade to cut the excess glass from the sides. The iPhone 4S uses a projected capacitive touchscreen. That is the actual touchscreen sensors are built into the display. The glass is just a cover. See this video. Apple stopped using this more expensive technology after the iPhone 4S.

There are a ton of cell phone repair shops in town, but I haven't called any to see if they have one of those LCD separator machines. I am amazed that on eBay you can purchase the tools, adhesive, machines and custom colored pre-assembled LCDs...but you can't order the darn raw panel from anyone.

I guess my own sense of engineering just doesn't want to use a hacked LCD. I really want it to be a proper design like the rest of the build. I may cave soon.

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In other news, I don't know when I will be able to get back on this project in full force. Life is currently more busy than ever. Family stuff on both sides, as well as working on my house. I have started building components one at a time in Eagle CAD, but it's slow going.

Hey zap, what was it that you planned to have the knob beneath the radio knob do?

Voltaire Surge said:

Hey zap, what was it that you planned to have the knob beneath the radio knob do?

Click to expand...

I still plan on trying to make this into a directional joystick. If not, it will be wired up as a rotational knob, and be programmable. One idea was to use it to change the major screens left/right, since the Pip-Boy doesn't actually have that functionality using any of the other knobs.

I just haven't had any time to get back into this project lately. Heck I haven't sat at my home computer in weeks. Real life just gets busy sometimes.

well the game just doesnt show it, but i think that the wheel you set to use as the scroll wheel switches between the sub tabs, and the small wheel is what scrolls down, since the dont show the animation for it. not sure bout the wheel on the left tho. but at least they did show the button for clicking things unlike the last game. XD

I totally understand. its just awesome you have done all this so far. It would definately help someone make the previous pipboy though, if they wanted to.

I don't know if it'll be of any help, but http://m.aliexpress.com/item/2042956464.html?trace=storeDetail2msiteDetail is said to be specifically designed to de-laminate things glued with uv-curing glue.

Might be worth a shot?

At least for $6 with free shipping.

@Looxoor, Thanks for the link. But I suspect that stuff is just pure acetone. First off, I wouldn't buy any chemical from china without a MSDS sheet. The second thing I see is that it is for removing cyanoacrylate (super-glue). However, LCD screens are not bonded with cyanoacrylate. Not unless you are ordering already re-worked cheap LCDs from eBay.
LCD screens are bonded with a UV curable adhesive which is closer to acrylic or epoxy. And doesn't react to the same chemicals as super-glue.
Here is a paper form a UV adhesive company showing methods for removing the adhesive.

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Okay folks, reality time.

I started this project on Aug 19, 2015. It is now Aug 26, 2016. So a whole year now. I know that people here on the RPF have projects that have run for many years, so it's not a huge deal. However, real-life is making it so I can't work on this project for quite a while.

Last month my Father-in-law died. My wife and I were the primary persons helping with the funeral preparations. Also, my mother-in-law is probably moving in with us. This has prompted me to renew my search to buy a larger house closer to my work. So my free time will now be spent working on getting my current house ready to sell. My Dad had been helping me work on my house, however he broke his hip in the same week, and so that is now out of the question for the foreseeable future.

I know there are those of you who signed up for the group buy list, but at this time, without a known working LCD screen, I can't say if the group buy would ever happen. You may think the project looks so close to being done due to the mechanical design and renderings, but the electronics and software is actually more complex to get designed properly.

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There are a few of you who have been following and commenting on the project from day one.
So, at this point I leave this vote up to you:

1) Wait until I can attack this project with the same vigor that I did in the beginning. Finish it, and then execute a group buy kit.
2) Finish the project, and then release the complete design plans for a small fee.
3) Release the current (incomplete) design plans and bill of materials. The only electronics listed would only be for the knobs and switches. This would be released as open-source, non-commercial. This would allow people to 3D print their own Pip-Boy using the file, but it would be up to them to complete the project. (Or just perhaps have it as a painted screen accurate prop).
4) Something else?

I will keep an eye out for LCD screens over time. VR headsets are going to really push some of them into the market over the next year. And if the perfect one pops-up than maybe I will re-attack this project.

Hey Zapwizard, I'm a long time reader and first time poster on this site, please forgive me if I accidentally break any rules or don't follow any posting etiquette rules, I'm new. I've followed your project since day one, every day I search your project to see the latest updates, to see any minor or major changes you made to the pip boy. I have little experience in electronics and programming and have always been interested in the group buy, which would save me A LOT of headaches. You are the only one I know who is attempting the impossible, making a fully functional pip boy. I read your recent post and my condolences to you and your wife, I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope your dad gets better too. I know things can get rough and life likes to make things difficult but please don't abandon this project. I believe that eventually you will be able to finish this project but it won't be any time soon. I'm only 19 and I've had things happened to myself as well, I could've given up on a lot of things but I've always managed to soldier through and try as best as I can. I'm not saying for you to finish the project now and be over and done with, nor do I want you to abandon it and leave it to us to fix. What I ideally want is what is best for you... Here's my suggestion.... Take a break, a good month or three or more, take as much time as you need and set aside the pip boy, it is not a priority. From there when all is going well life is sorted, attack it as you did from the moment you started. Start again with that same ambition you had since day one, where it burned deep inside and rocked you to the very core. Zap, to be truthful here, you helped inspire me to try and learn basic electronics and maybe try and learn computer programming, because I too would like to someday design my own pip boy or make small modifications to the group buy (if it ever goes through) but even then I can only learn and do so much. So please don't give up, don't lose hope, look after the family and yourself. If there is any way I could try and contribute to the project to help you, just say the word and I'll see what I can do. Take care,

Sincerely FordFairlane55

Sorry to hear about the turn of events Zap. I'd vote to put it on hold until the hardware appears and you can do it your way. That and life gives you some breathing room. I've been waiting since Fallout 3 for the short throw projector tech to arrive so I can finish a project. Given Fallout 4 sales, Fallout 5 will likely occur - you'll be ahead of the curve there

I'd say to put it on hold. No reason to get over whelmed when your already so busy, and have so much on your plate.

@FordFairlane55: Thanks for the kind words. To be clear: I am not abandoning this project I am just putting it on hold while I work on my house. I will be packing up much of my office and workshop to prep the house for sale, so I won't have much stuff besides my PC to work with. I posted these comments as I believe in being transparent and honest with people. I know most of you are patient and just watching until it is done. There are plenty of people who don't understand the time it takes, but I mostly ignore them anyways. At this point it isn't a matter of money, or even someone helping with some aspect of the project. It is just having time.

@Mach: By Bethesda's clock, I have 4 years until Fallout 5 right?

@j3356: Thanks for the input. I would rather put this on hold also. Releasing incomplete design files will probably just swamp me with emails asking me how to complete some part of it.

Hey zapwizard, thank you for responding. I am sorry if I did get a bit carried away, I really do appreciate your honesty and opening up about what's going on in your personal life and it's great to know that the pip-boy won't be abandoned. I totally understand where you come from. I just really like slowly watching this project be done and really appreciate and admire the effort and hard work going into it. But hey I totally understand how much time is needed to try and do certain projects as well, trust me I've had my fair share too. I can't believe it's been over a year now since you started working on the pipboy, man time really does fly, but I digress. Please do take as much time as you need until you're ready to take on the project. I wish you the very best and I hope to try and be more involved in the forum if I can. Cheers.

zapwizard said:

.............Wait until I can attack this project with the same vigor that I did in the beginning. Finish it, and then execute a group buy kit..........

Click to expand...

I vote for this.

After all, you can't rush perfection.

zapwizard said:

@Mach: By Bethesda's clock, I have 4 years until Fallout 5 right?

Click to expand...

There might be some round off (or up) in that estimate

I have really been enjoying watching your process. I haven't been following the project for as long as some, but I would love to see you finish it at whatever pace you can. Life is what happens when you're busy making Pip-Boy plans, and sometimes you need to step away and deal with everything else. Take care of yourself and your family first Best of luck, zap.