Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%

  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%

  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%

  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%

  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%
  • Total voters
    578
Kylash said:
....nearly 20 years later.
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In and of itself it's not a problem. If all you watch is the movies (no books/comics) as far as you've been told, that's the ONLY significant thing that's happened to luke in those 30 years. No mention of any other good things at all.

Plus, as noted multiple times by many people - He fought tooth and nail for a guy he never ever knew at all in Vader to redeem him. So, in realizing his nephew got pushed over the edge on a misunderstaning - he simply gives up and quits???? I can see blaming yourself and avoiding your sister, but not quitting all together.

Yeah....no.
 
Kylash said:
....nearly 20 years later.
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That really doesn't matter. It's a story and we're talking about the climactic moment of a six-movie arc. Anakin failed because he gave into temptation. Luke succeeded because he didn't. It's BAD WRITING to then say, "well, but 20 years later he gave into temptation again even though not giving into temptation is how he saved his father and saved the galaxy." Johnson could've come up with another contrivance to make Ben Solo mistakenly think Luke was going to kill him. Snoke could've been projecting an image in his head (Leia DID say Snoke seduced him), but unfortunately Luke flippin' admitted he was tempted. Sorry, it's just not in any way okay to use the EXACT SAME THING Luke overcame in the OT as the plot device to justify Ben Solo's turn.

I don't get it. For the last 20 years fans have been complaining (with righteous indignation) about how Han Solo's character was "ruined" because he shoots 7 frames after Greedo in the SE. But somehow THIS... meh, no biggie. :facepalm
 
Except he didnt give into temptation... I dont know how you get there. He was tempted, that was it. He didnt act on it.

Maybe they shouldnt have had him actually ignite his saber... but either way he didnt act on it.
 
cayman shen said:
But he didn't succumb to the temptation. It was a tragic accident that Kylo woke at exactly that moment.

I understand where people are coming from...I just think you're asking too much of even a great and noble human.
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Unless I'm mistaken, Luke admitted he was tempted. For a moment, yes, but by his own words he was tempted. And therein lies the problem.
 
Bryancd said:
Some people need a lesson in history. Some of us were there and remember. ESB wasn’t universally loved on release by critics or fandom. I struggled with it being so different.

http://mashable.com/2017/12/19/last-jedi-empire-strikes-back-haters/
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I was there too. I vividly remember people ragging on it, and I also remember defending it. And I defended ROTJ. And TPM. And AOTC. And ROTS. The issue (at least for me) isn't about TLJ being different. I WANT different. That's why I still defend the prequels to this day. I LIKE that they're not the OT. Chrome spaceships? Hell YEAH! Wanting something original is why I DIDN'T like TFA. I felt it was a cynically made fan service knock-off. I went into TLJ unspoiled HOPING it would be original and different and full of unexpected surprises. What I got instead was fundamentally flawed bad story decisions that not only don't make sense in the movie itself, but that negatively impact the movies that came before.
 
Bryancd said:
At what point did Luke become infallible?
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I'm not arguing infallibility! Of course Luke can be infallible.I'm arguing that it's HORRIBLE WRITING for Johnson to choose THIS SPECIFIC THING -- KILLING A RELATIVE -- to suddenly make Luke wishywashy about. It's THE THING he overcame in the OT. It's the entire point of his (and Anakin's) story! It's not that Johnson gave Luke a flaw that I hate, or that I think Luke can't make a mistake, it that Johnson chose the absolute WORST thing from a story pooint of view for Luke to suddenly fail at -- AGAIN!
 
So, RotJ, Luke fights his father, cuts his hand off, but does not kill him = resist temptation
in TLJ, Luke sees in the future Kylo will be part of genocide, thinks for ONE SECOND about being able to stop it, IMMEDIATELY realizes that is NOT OK and feels ASHAMED, did NOT fight or kill anyone = fell to temptation

?

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Hunk a Junk said:
I'm not arguing infallibility! Of course Luke can be infallible.I'm arguing that it's HORRIBLE WRITING for Johnson to choose THIS SPECIFIC THING -- KILLING A RELATIVE -- to suddenly make Luke wishywashy about. It's THE THING he overcame in the OT. It's the entire point of his (and Anakin's) story! It's not that Johnson gave Luke a flaw that I hate, or that I think Luke can't make a mistake, it that Johnson chose the absolute WORST thing from a story pooint of view for Luke to suddenly fail at -- AGAIN!
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I guess a lot of people just feel it is silly that these two instances are being argued as equal
 
Did we follow Luke through those other movies just to see him as a grumpy old fart on an island full of space penguins, disconnected from the force, and drinking green stuff out of space manatees? I didn't. I didn't care for seeing him be a coward. Yeah, he was always a whiny guy, but I don't recall him ever being afraid of the power of the force.
 
Hunk a Junk said:
Unless I'm mistaken, Luke admitted he was tempted. For a moment, yes, but by his own words he was tempted. And therein lies the problem.
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An alcoholic is tempted to have a cold beer on a hot day...and declines. Has he failed in his sobriety?

EDIT: I can see I'm not going to sway anyone's opinion, so this'll be my last on the topic. I get why some people didn't like the direction Luke went. It doesn't bother me, but I do get it.
 
I swear to God, they only made it green milk because the fans were catching on to the blatant fan service that was Blue milk.


"SEEEEE! We're different now!"
 
Noeland said:
Did we follow Luke through those other movies just to see him as a grumpy old fart on an island full of space penguins, disconnected from the force, and drinking green stuff out of space manatees? I didn't. I didn't care for seeing him be a coward. Yeah, he was always a whiny guy, but I don't recall him ever being afraid of the power of the force.
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I kind of hoped he would have came out like Obiwan.. old enough to know and teach... and still young enough to swing a saber.
 
karmajay said:
So, RotJ, Luke fights his father, cuts his hand off, but does not kill him = resist temptation
in TLJ, Luke sees in the future Kylo will be part of genocide, thinks for ONE SECOND about being able to stop it, IMMEDIATELY realizes that is NOT OK and feels ASHAMED, did NOT fight or kill anyone = fell to temptation

?

- - - Updated - - -



I guess a lot of people just feel it is silly that these two instances are being argued as equal
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But it IS equal! Luke was in the exact same conflict: a close relative turning (or turned) to evil and he had to react. In ROTJ, Luke AVOIDED having to kill his relative. He disobeyed his masters who wanted him to do it. He gave himself up. He refused to fight. He only DID fight to defend himself and then only got angry when Vader threatened his sister. Even then Luke pulled back, resisted temptation and won. But apparently after going through ALL THAT -- having been proven wonderfully right where even his masters were wrong -- Luke forgets that and considers (yes, even for a moment) that he should kill his nephew. It IS equal. It's TOTALLY equal. It's the same exact conflict!
 
Hunk a Junk said:
I'm not arguing infallibility! Of course Luke can be infallible.I'm arguing that it's HORRIBLE WRITING for Johnson to choose THIS SPECIFIC THING -- KILLING A RELATIVE -- to suddenly make Luke wishywashy about. It's THE THING he overcame in the OT. It's the entire point of his (and Anakin's) story! It's not that Johnson gave Luke a flaw that I hate, or that I think Luke can't make a mistake, it that Johnson chose the absolute WORST thing from a story pooint of view for Luke to suddenly fail at -- AGAIN!
Click to expand...

The fact that it’s his nephew is immaterial to his brief consideration. He looked into Kylo’s future standing over his bed and saw the death and destruction to come. What he saw made him feel for a moment he couldn’t reverse this possible future. It could have been a random Padawan or his nephew, the outcome of doing nothing is still the same.

Your whole argument is incredibly pedantic. At this point I would have taken that beer and dumped it in your head yelling “Get a grip, man!”
 
DarthLee said:
I kind of hoped he would have came out like Obiwan.. old enough to know and teach... and still young enough to swing a saber.
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And you're not alone. I think they were trying to play against that idea, so he wasn't just like Obiwan. But making him afraid of the force, and wanting the Jedi to end was a bridge too far for most fans, and just doesn't jive with who he was in all the other films.

I appreciate what they were trying to do in the movie, and with Luke. I just think they could have hit the same characters beats in ways that jived with the Luke Skywalker fans love.

In the theater I was in fans CHEERED when Luke faced off with Kylo and held that saber. And when those same people realized that he wasn't even there, you could feel the air leave the room. It was just a very poor creative choice. And then our big hero saves the day by moving rocks. That was weak sauce guys.
 
Noeland said:
In the theater I was in fans CHEERED when Luke faced off with Kylo and held that saber. And when those same people realized that he wasn't even there, you could feel the air leave the room. It was just a very poor creative choice. And then our big hero saves the day by moving rocks. That was weak sauce guys.
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Yes.. a somewhat Obiwan-Vadar showdown.. and even Luke sacrificing himself, with saber in hand...strike me down and I will become more powerful....style..
That whole scene was weird... made Kilo looked like an idiot not knowing.. and the surprise to the audience was no surprise after 3 seconds...

So we didnt see Luke fight.. and we were not surprised after a few seconds.. just a weird scene... Still analyzing it..lol

Except, Kilo didnt get the chance... poof, Ole Lukey be gone now..
 
Bryancd said:
At what point did Luke become infallible?
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When does Luke get to become a full-fledged Jedi Master?

At that point in his life, he should essentially be beyond that kind of thing like OWK in the PT. You'd never expect him to give into fear and spark a saber at a sleeping Padawan. Yoda sensed "much fear" (which leads to anger, hate, etc.) in little Anakin and didn't go spark him up that night, neither did any other Master.

It was bad writing to make Luke the reason Ben turns. It throws mud on a beloved character in a way that did not have to happen. Especially since they were setting up Snoke as the one who turns Ben in TFA.
 
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