Davy Jones
Sr Member
I think John D. was the official name of the pilot. Inside joke? Maybe. But here is food for thought.
X-WING & TIE PILOT HELMET progress pics
- Thread starter GINO
- Start date
GINO
Sr Member
Good catch.
I would be really surprised if it wasn't referring to Dykstra.
BTW when the pilots are sounding off in ANH, there is no mention of a Red 4.
The only pilots you hear voices from but don't see a cockpit shot are Red 7, Red 9, or Red 11.
If there is a Red 4 in the film, you wouldn't know solely by watching it.
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I would be really surprised if it wasn't referring to Dykstra.
BTW when the pilots are sounding off in ANH, there is no mention of a Red 4.
The only pilots you hear voices from but don't see a cockpit shot are Red 7, Red 9, or Red 11.
If there is a Red 4 in the film, you wouldn't know solely by watching it.
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OldKen
Master Member
That's cause he was BLUE 4. :lol
Even ignoring EU references in that link, the poster
1. Notes that Jack Klaff is credited as "Red 4 (John D.)" in the film.
2. Found another movie Jack Klaff was in.
3. Jack Klaff looks like Red Helmet Guy.
thus,
4. Red Helmet Guy is Red 4 (John D.)
(apologies if this derail is getting out of hand!
)
1. Notes that Jack Klaff is credited as "Red 4 (John D.)" in the film.
2. Found another movie Jack Klaff was in.
3. Jack Klaff looks like Red Helmet Guy.
thus,
4. Red Helmet Guy is Red 4 (John D.)
(apologies if this derail is getting out of hand!
)
GINO
Sr Member
I don't believe for one minute that there was a serious intention for a character in SW to be named 'John'.
And as I said before, there was no mention of a Red 4 in the film.
To me that supersedes info attached to a production model or even the credits.
In fact, the credits don't even mention three of the other xwing pilots, especially red 10 who actually had a speaking role.
The pilots that aren't mentioned in the credits corresponding with my chart are:
1. red 10
2. red helmet guy (red 7, 9, or 11) take your pick
3. gold (?) -this guy was part of gold squadron but we were never given his actual number
Also, there was no mention of gold 2 in the film other than the credits, so maybe gold (?) should be named gold '2' in lieu of something definitive.
Here are the film credits showing the xwing pilots.
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And as I said before, there was no mention of a Red 4 in the film.
To me that supersedes info attached to a production model or even the credits.
In fact, the credits don't even mention three of the other xwing pilots, especially red 10 who actually had a speaking role.
The pilots that aren't mentioned in the credits corresponding with my chart are:
1. red 10
2. red helmet guy (red 7, 9, or 11) take your pick
3. gold (?) -this guy was part of gold squadron but we were never given his actual number
Also, there was no mention of gold 2 in the film other than the credits, so maybe gold (?) should be named gold '2' in lieu of something definitive.
Here are the film credits showing the xwing pilots.
.
There was a character named John D. Branon that flew as Red Four. Whether it was just a voice initially or edited out of ANH, he is included in the SW Universe:
Prior to the destruction of the first Death Star, Cesi Eirriss flew as Red Four for the Rebel Alliance. John D. Branon became her replacement after she was killed over Commenor. Branon flew during the pivotal Battle of Yavin, in which he lost his life.
Red Four - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
We know wookieepedia wasn't around back then, so it's not just made up now.
Prior to the destruction of the first Death Star, Cesi Eirriss flew as Red Four for the Rebel Alliance. John D. Branon became her replacement after she was killed over Commenor. Branon flew during the pivotal Battle of Yavin, in which he lost his life.
Red Four - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
We know wookieepedia wasn't around back then, so it's not just made up now.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
It adds a richness to the universe. Plus, if not for the EU, we would not have a Coruscant.
Buy it or not, he exists in the SW universe. Why get so hung up on the fact that you didn't know and move on? The name appears on a test shot taken over 35 years ago. His name appears in the movie credits attributed to an actual actor. 35+ years later, his name is recognized again with a small description of who he was. How much more do you really need?
We know pretty much all of the xwing pilots started out as Blue xxx, with changes being made because of Lucas and the blue screen issues with the blue in the helmets. In the 3rd draft of the Star Wars script, there is the mention of Blue 4 (Red 4 later on) and the pilot's ultimate death:
EXT. SPACE AROUND FOURTH MOON OF YAVIN - BATTLE - 165-171
REBEL FIGHTERS
................................................cont:
Blue Leader and Luke (Blue Five) and Blue Four dive in
unison through a forest of radar domes, antenna and gun
towers. They are followed by four Imperial tie fighters.
The two rebel ships make a sharp turn and come around
behind the Imperial ships. Blue Four and Blue Leader
fire into the tie fighters as the six ships crisscross
the surface of the fortress.
Suddenly a dense barrage of laser fire erupts from a
protruding tower, catching Blue Four broadside. The
rebel spacecraft bursts into a million flaming pieces.
Luke has a sudden realization of the danger he is in,
but it quickly fades as another Imperial fighter moves
onto his tail and begins firing. Luke rolls away from
the enemy ship.
Date of this draft: August 1st, 1975. It all fits together IMO.
We know pretty much all of the xwing pilots started out as Blue xxx, with changes being made because of Lucas and the blue screen issues with the blue in the helmets. In the 3rd draft of the Star Wars script, there is the mention of Blue 4 (Red 4 later on) and the pilot's ultimate death:
EXT. SPACE AROUND FOURTH MOON OF YAVIN - BATTLE - 165-171
REBEL FIGHTERS
................................................cont:
Blue Leader and Luke (Blue Five) and Blue Four dive in
unison through a forest of radar domes, antenna and gun
towers. They are followed by four Imperial tie fighters.
The two rebel ships make a sharp turn and come around
behind the Imperial ships. Blue Four and Blue Leader
fire into the tie fighters as the six ships crisscross
the surface of the fortress.
Suddenly a dense barrage of laser fire erupts from a
protruding tower, catching Blue Four broadside. The
rebel spacecraft bursts into a million flaming pieces.
Luke has a sudden realization of the danger he is in,
but it quickly fades as another Imperial fighter moves
onto his tail and begins firing. Luke rolls away from
the enemy ship.
Date of this draft: August 1st, 1975. It all fits together IMO.
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GINO
Sr Member
It's not about knowing or not. It's about what I accept as canon.
And as far as I'm concerned the EU, model test shots, or goofed up credits and the end of the film to not fit MY canon.
Everyone is entitled to their own.
I think that Jack Klaff is one of the pilots, just not Red 4 because in the film, there is no Red 4. I'm sure he portrayed one of the other unnamed pilots as described above. Maybe he was red 10, at least that guy had actual speaking lines.
This is how I see it. It can be debated forever and not come to consensus because 1. we have different ideas of what makes canon and 2. because there simply is insufficient info about the pilots shown on screen.
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Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
So....how about them there Rebel helmets? Put some of that finishing on one!
I do realize you live in your own universe with your own set of rules. I think everyone else can pretty much agree on that one, so no argument there.
A simple issue with his part being edited out of the final movie version and the post production screwing up and including his name in the credits. Considering the amount of visual screwups in ANH, that would be par for the course and certainly not something so difficult to believe. However, the reason for my initial post was to try and help you out in recognizing that the character was named "John" and that he did, in fact, live in the SW universe, albeit brief. In my view, there is no disagreement on that. You didn't think he was even real, in a movie sense, and several of us have tried to show you otherwise.
So now that it's been established that he was indeed a character the derailment can cease, at least from me.
CSMacLaren
Sr Member
If anyone has a challenge with accepting the name "John" as one of the characters (perhaps due to such an American/English name) then think of the really tubby X-Wing pilot who's named "Porkins" (Red 6) of all names! :lol
JoeR
Sr Member
Can you post the pictures of the original TIE that this was cast from? It would be fascinating to see.
It is a very bold claim to make especially considering how few were made and how even fewer survived to this day.
Of the helmets that I know of in private hands, they would certainly not take them apart for molding, given the £70,000 plus price tag.
Edit: Can you identify which one it is in this picture?
It is a very bold claim to make especially considering how few were made and how even fewer survived to this day.
Of the helmets that I know of in private hands, they would certainly not take them apart for molding, given the £70,000 plus price tag.
Edit: Can you identify which one it is in this picture?
Last edited:
JoeR
Sr Member
Almost finished.
Made in the correct color, gloss and thickness of ABS.
Still need to get decals made and tint the visor.
For the x-wing helmets, I plan to do a couple versions of x-wing helmet including both hero and background style.
For the Tie helmets, I plan to do a hero, background, and of course the AT-AT pilot (one of my all time favorites).
Here's some pics so far.
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I do not know a lot about TIE helmets, but the originals on SWhelmets do not appear to have the tear track detail like your replicas above. Was this detail on some originals and not on others?
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