X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models
- Thread starter -... . .- --..
- Start date
I've often wondered if the yellow didn't "fall" from the models as they went trough shots and saw the results. So Red 5 lots of yellow pyro X-wings almost none???
Or in what ever the build order was...
BrianM
Davy Jones
Sr Member
Anyone have pictures of Red 3? I've only ever seen two of that model.
Apophis
Sr Member
http://www.killbyte.da.ru/
Scroll down and find red 3, there are two versions of red 3 on this site.
The original "small" x-wing and the large model that was never used?
I prefer the original small version.
Scroll down and find red 3, there are two versions of red 3 on this site.
The original "small" x-wing and the large model that was never used?
I prefer the original small version.
Davy Jones
Sr Member
Thanks guys. I thought I'd scared everyone away.
I cant see pictures of Red 3. After Red 2 the list goes all screwy for me.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/Midnight_Trooper/Red3.jpg
This is one of two pictures of Red 3 I've seen. I cant seem to upload the other one because of internet problems I barely was able to do this one. Maybe its a similar problem keeping me from seeing the pictures on that link.
This has been the best thread I've seen in a long while. Keep it up pros!
I cant see pictures of Red 3. After Red 2 the list goes all screwy for me.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/Midnight_Trooper/Red3.jpg
This is one of two pictures of Red 3 I've seen. I cant seem to upload the other one because of internet problems I barely was able to do this one. Maybe its a similar problem keeping me from seeing the pictures on that link.
This has been the best thread I've seen in a long while. Keep it up pros!
Last edited:
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
Davy Jones
Sr Member
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /references/sw/ships/alliance/x-wing/x-wing - red 3/10-other/xw1.jpg on this server.
----------------------
Nope. Must be me. I've been having the biggest grab bag of weird problems anyone has ever seen with my internet service provider these past weeks. I'll try to work it out, thanks guys.
You don't have permission to access /references/sw/ships/alliance/x-wing/x-wing - red 3/10-other/xw1.jpg on this server.
----------------------
Nope. Must be me. I've been having the biggest grab bag of weird problems anyone has ever seen with my internet service provider these past weeks. I'll try to work it out, thanks guys.
Davy Jones
Sr Member
Sucess! - .... .- -. -.- ... !
MonsieurTox
Master Member
Does anyone have pics of the X with the yellow canopy ? I would like to paint my model this way (bored of the ol' same X-Wings 
).
).OK, I'm a little late to the party, but worse has been said of me.....
I went out to Profiles and History last week and looked at the TIE fighter and X-wing parts with Dave Jones (one of the ILM model guys from that era). Profiles allowed me to take some photos as we were talking. Dave had an interesting theory regarding the X-wing master that they were selling.
First off the material it is cast with is some sort of epoxy resin impregnated with aluminum powder. The parts feel heavier than you would expect and little more solid. I've been told that this material was used because of it's stability and also it ability to handle the hot quartz lights better than the cheap resin. Overall, it reminds me of JB Weld. The resin has a medium gray color to it, and was sprayed with a darker gray primer. Some areas around the canopy had been scraped away and you could see the metal flakes underneath the surface coat of the resin.
From the photos below you can see that the pattern is hollow. The tan stuff is resin that appears to be poured into the cavity to reinforce the casting. Most of the warping occurs along the bottom of the fuselage. Interestingly, the entire bottom of the fuselage is made out of styrene and is thinner than the rest of the casting (probably why it is warped).
Here's Dave's theory. He actually thinks this was THE master for all the X-wings - pyro and hero. Initially, a wood buck was carved and molded. A hollow casting was then made and the scribe lines were applied to that casting. That part was then molded again, and production fuselages came out of that mold. The telling part of this is actually the styrene bottom. Apparently, the mechanism for the scissor action was a real paint to engineer. Grant and Richard Alexander worked on it for nearly 8 months. Finally, they got it to work, but it required bulking up the rear end of the ship to accommodate the motors. Dave thinks that this pattern from the first mold (slim body) was modified with the styrene bottom and reinforced with some resin (and a bit of Bondo), and then use to make the new (beefier) fuselages.
Honestly, there's no real way to know for sure. People's memories leave out details as time goes on and we are now some 32-33 years from the time this stuff was built. I guess we just have to throw stories like this into the pot and combine/reconcile it with the photos we have.
Doesn't exactly help build a better X-wing, but hopefully it gives us all a chance to appreciate the effort that went into making this thing.........
Later,
Gene
I went out to Profiles and History last week and looked at the TIE fighter and X-wing parts with Dave Jones (one of the ILM model guys from that era). Profiles allowed me to take some photos as we were talking. Dave had an interesting theory regarding the X-wing master that they were selling.
First off the material it is cast with is some sort of epoxy resin impregnated with aluminum powder. The parts feel heavier than you would expect and little more solid. I've been told that this material was used because of it's stability and also it ability to handle the hot quartz lights better than the cheap resin. Overall, it reminds me of JB Weld. The resin has a medium gray color to it, and was sprayed with a darker gray primer. Some areas around the canopy had been scraped away and you could see the metal flakes underneath the surface coat of the resin.
From the photos below you can see that the pattern is hollow. The tan stuff is resin that appears to be poured into the cavity to reinforce the casting. Most of the warping occurs along the bottom of the fuselage. Interestingly, the entire bottom of the fuselage is made out of styrene and is thinner than the rest of the casting (probably why it is warped).
Here's Dave's theory. He actually thinks this was THE master for all the X-wings - pyro and hero. Initially, a wood buck was carved and molded. A hollow casting was then made and the scribe lines were applied to that casting. That part was then molded again, and production fuselages came out of that mold. The telling part of this is actually the styrene bottom. Apparently, the mechanism for the scissor action was a real paint to engineer. Grant and Richard Alexander worked on it for nearly 8 months. Finally, they got it to work, but it required bulking up the rear end of the ship to accommodate the motors. Dave thinks that this pattern from the first mold (slim body) was modified with the styrene bottom and reinforced with some resin (and a bit of Bondo), and then use to make the new (beefier) fuselages.
Honestly, there's no real way to know for sure. People's memories leave out details as time goes on and we are now some 32-33 years from the time this stuff was built. I guess we just have to throw stories like this into the pot and combine/reconcile it with the photos we have.
Doesn't exactly help build a better X-wing, but hopefully it gives us all a chance to appreciate the effort that went into making this thing.........
Later,
Gene
Miniaturizer Ray
Well-Known Member
Just a wild idea, but does anybody actually have any pictures that indicate that all of the top/bottom "heroes" didn't have (presumably) vac-formed styrene bottom halves?
Let me clarify what I wrote. The master has a styrene bottom, but there is no indication that any other X-wings (hero or pyro) had styrene fuselage halves. Dave left me with the impression that this 'master' was reworked with styrene to accommodate the changes and that subsequent pulls were all resin.
Honestly, I still don't know how to reconcile this with the photos that don't have the fixed mounting blocks for the open wings. Or the top/bottom split. I'll ask Dave the next time I see him.
Looking again at the photos that -... . .- -- posted, I just noticed something. Where is the bottom fuselage? It's not in the shot where Dave Beasley is filing the canopy window. And the shot of the X-wing wit all the wires is missing it's belly as well.
The whole point is this - these things, like a lot of models for film or even industry, evolved. Unless you have some sort of date/time stamp on the photos (thank god for digital cameras and metadata) you don't know the context of the photos you are sifting through.
Treadwell, looking at that sawtooth insert in the wing opening - looks like a piece of styrene cut up.
Gene
Miniaturizer Ray
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that you had claimed that the X-wings had styrene fuselage halves, it was my own crazy idea.
I'm not pooh-poohing the idea that this is the original pattern for all of the X-wings, but as Beaz has pointed out, if it was, then it would have had to be heavily modified to be in its current state. The "hero" fuselages were moulded without any part of the nose-block attached whereas this piece has the nose-block fixed on. It also appears to be the case that each of the "hero" models had their torpedo tubes added after the bottom halves were formed.
I can't see anything about this piece that suggests that it isn't the original pattern re-worked, but it strikes me that the same end result could be attained by cutting up an assembled "hero" fuselage", and if the "hero" fuselage bottoms were resin, that would be somewhat easier to do than working with the original styrene pattern.
The only high-resolution pictures that I have (apart from a handful that were passed on to me before I completely swore off the sub rosa nonsense) are Uwe Fischer's pictures of Red Two (which are available to anybody - see the email link at the bottom of this webpage), and while I don't see anything that proves that Red Two had a styrene bottom, the wall thickness of the bottom half suggests that it's possible that it did.
Also, in the picture that Jason posted:
notice how the X-wing in the background has a white bottom half, even though nothing else on the model appears to have been painted white yet (all of the other white parts are known - or at least believed - to be either kit parts or styrene sheet).
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
Ray, I think you're right. Thinking about it, what possible reason could there be for the bottom half of that fuselage to have been painted white already, when at most all we've got on other parts of the model is primer. We can still see the orange Sealab part inside the engine box, the white Saturn V parts, and right thru the acrylic outer wings. But the styrene inner wings overlays are the same solid white color as the bottom of that fuselage.
Looking at these new pattern images, receiving confirmation of McCune's 1978 story about how the fuselage had to be reworked to fit the wing mechanism inside, and rethinking what we have in this construction shot, I'd say that there's actually a very good case to be made that the hero fuselage bottoms were vac-formed.
Last edited:
RKW
Sr Member
It can't possibly be the master for all X-Wings for the very reason already stated, the removable mounting covers.
I would say that the reason the auction master has a styrene section added is because to cast a hero they would have had to remove/break that section to remove the wings. It's also why its got new permanent mounting covers added.
They must have had a high failure rate regarding the pyros because there seems to be alot more fully built pyros than actually appear destroyed on screen. I'm guessing this is also why the trench section used partially built X-Wings as they had simply run out of them and didn't have the time to finish them.
I would say that the reason the auction master has a styrene section added is because to cast a hero they would have had to remove/break that section to remove the wings. It's also why its got new permanent mounting covers added.
They must have had a high failure rate regarding the pyros because there seems to be alot more fully built pyros than actually appear destroyed on screen. I'm guessing this is also why the trench section used partially built X-Wings as they had simply run out of them and didn't have the time to finish them.
Last edited:
Last edited:
Similar threads
