X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models

[PHArchivist]

* Re the unweathered ship in the background, a white base coat isn't news is it? IIRC, Famous Spaceships indicated they were hit with white automotive primer as the base coat to give a hard, strong surface that could take the abuse that was to follow.

Nope... Not news at all... Point in my ost was to draw attention validation of the white. As if Red 1 doesn't do that for us anyway!

 

[moffeaton]

Red 6...
And red 6...

EXCELLENT! (and sad, heh)

 

[Nwerke]

Jerry, I'm not sure. I see the stripe you mean but I'm not sure if it isn't just the lighting, and the 'spine' of the underside of the fuselage. I'm also looking for the shaded under-fuselage panel in the black and white pic, but I'm not seeing it. Exposure doesn't help though, it might be there, I just can't tell.

BTW, though, does it look to anybody like that Red 6 has 2 stripes that connect to the main L-shaped marking? It clearly isn't the red-cockpit ship.

Jason, for your chart - you know the line of marks along the side of Red 5's nose cone? People do this on Salzos in various ways. I think it is a proper,painted grey stripe, heavily weathered. What do you think?

Also - in Jerry's underside Red 6 - do you think the dark wing panels abutting the Saturn V part bases are red? They look identical to the red stripes in tone.

Also also - the red fuselage line on Red 2 has rougher edges than Blue Leader's stripe, there's even a bit of bleed at a panel line. Masked up in a hurry? You can see a hint of the blue under the red - probably makes this stripe darker than on some models?

PHArchivist, I'm with you now. Proof, for sure!

Cheers,
Martyn

 

[Apophis]

Well, Martyn, the black and white pic shows the red 6 right? but if you look underside of the fuselage, you will notice a stripe just in front of the "cargo hatch".
On the pic of the blown up model, you can see the same stripe in the same place as the B&W pic, also you can see a partially split seam on the underside of the model in the correct place for a pyro.
So, in conclusion, those two pics are of the red 6 pyro, not the hero which could have different paint.But what gets me is that busted up model has really neat looking paint on it.

 

[Nwerke]

My photo of "Blue 12" which actually has red stripes, matches this magazine photo of Red 6 in a couple distinct areas. Either it started with full 6 stripes, which then had a strip removed from the center making 12 bands, or it started as 12, and they filled in the gap to make 6 solid stripes.


_Mike

Mike, these pics sound fascinating. Are they NDA'd or gentleman's-agreemented - I guess so or you'd be posting some, right? Do you happen to have any of the red-cockpit ship? If so, would you be willing to give me 'warm...warm...cold...' type hints for a Salzo build?

Cheers,
Martyn

 

[moffeaton]

Martyn,
Looks like a grey weathered area to me. Actually, it's pretty easy to accomplish on the V3s, as you can just weather the front plug - the weathering has a hard line transition right where it should be, between the nose cone plug and the body (nose base).

 

[Nwerke]

Martyn,
Looks like a grey weathered area to me. Actually, it's pretty easy to accomplish on the V3s, as you can just weather the front plug - the weathering has a hard line transition right where it should be, between the nose cone plug and the body (nose base).

Jason, I found the screen cap I was thinking of - it was posted a few weeks ago on another thread and I thought I'd noticed this being paint, glad to know I wasn't imagining things! Have a look at this and see if you agree. You can see it in the Chronicles underside pic too.

Also note the chamfer on the leading edges of the wings. As far as I can tell all X-wings have this, including the mockups. Is it on the CC/Salzo? I rebuilt my wings so long ago I can't remember. If it is there it is hard to see in pics of buildups. If not it's easy to add.

On the red cockpit ship, the brick panel on the side with the red Saturn can is red too. Since a lot of these markings are diagonally mirrored, I wonder if one of the lower Saturn cans might have the red band too?

Jerry,please pardon my thickheadedness. I didn't get that you meant the *transverse* stripe!! I only just found it on the 'exploded' pic, didn't find it easy to see for some reason. Totally with you now.

Cheers,
Martyn

 

[moffeaton]

Wait - now I'm confused, lol.

Red 5 looks like it had a nose job at some point... or at least, for some of the shots, it had a different nose endcap.

 

[Nwerke]

Wait - now I'm confused, lol.

Red 5 looks like it had a nose job at some point... or at least, for some of the shots, it had a different nose endcap.

Hrrrm! Is it different, or just in shadow/more harshly lit?

She definitely had a funny front end for some shots. You can see a kind of stubby, shapeless cut-off look in one flyby where she's rolling a little, but you can see the rear end - meaning they must have been using the front mount, even though it was in frame. So they did something, put some fake stubby blobby thing over the mount tube it looks like. But that's not the one in your pics, that thing is more obvious and freaky.

Do you agree the grey stripe looks like a proper masked piece of paintwork in the cap I posted?

 

[moffeaton]

In that cap, it really does look deliberately applied, yeah

 

[RKW]

Wait - now I'm confused, lol.

Red 5 looks like it had a nose job at some point... or at least, for some of the shots, it had a different nose endcap.

Wait a minute while I get my magnifying glass..................

Not really sure what you're refering to, the grey shadow or the slightly cleaner looking half?

I wouldn't rely too heavily on using screen grabs to look for paint anomalies as quite a lot of detail doesn't show up after the compositing process. Even the yellow of the saturn cans doesn't show up properly.

 

[-... . .- --..]

I wouldn't rely too heavily on using screen grabs to look for paint anomalies as quite a lot of detail doesn't show up after the compositing process. Even the yellow of the saturn cans doesn't show up properly.

I guess I'm weird, but I prefer the look of the composited Red 5 over the actual finish on the miniature. This is how I remember it most vividly, having watched the film a whole lot more at an impressionable age than the behind-the-scenes imagery. It's definitely how most non-prop-geek visitors to my media room will remember it, too, no doubt.

Been thinking about building a version with an "on-screen" finish out of one of my Salzo V3s.

 

[moffeaton]

Been thinking about building a version with an "on-screen" finish out of one of my Salzo V3s.

THAT is something I want very much to see someone do.

 

[Apophis]

anybody got anything new?
What about colors?
We know that they used mostly Floquil colors right?
So, the most common are:
Caboose red
reefer white
engine black
grimey black
grime
dark blue (at one time)
reefer yellow
reefer gray
Other colors come to mind:
southern pacific armor yellow
depot buff
boxcar red
tuscan
pullman green
and of course all of the weathered colors.

 

[Qrest Fourstar]

So, was red 6 repainted? I mean the one pic of dykstra painting the red stripes has the red canopy, red cockpit and red engine stripe. but the pic(if only it was in color) from the Japanese mag shows it with a yellow canopy.


Or is the pic from Japanese mag an early shot on D was doing touch up?

 

[Apophis]

All, i know for sure is that the B&W pic and the "blown up" pic of red 6 are the same pyro model.
A lot of pyro models were hastily and sloppily painted and sometimes differently.
The debate on the other stuff is still in the air.

 

[moffeaton]

I'd imagine there was more than one Red 6... it's going to be very hard to nail this all down, as the models were modified, parts swapped, etc.

Also, I don't think Red 2 ever had a buttplate mounting cap. the pics of the prop on tour show that raw resin cap, and I think all photography (from the 70s) I have seen show it mounted from the rear.

(that's what she said!)

 

[Apophis]

"Also, I don't think Red 2 ever had a buttplate mounting cap. the pics of the prop on tour show that raw resin cap, and I think all photography (from the 70s) I have seen show it mounted from the rear."

In the SAG book it shows the blue leader pic and on the next page it shows the rear butt plate WITH a rear plug, now thats not saying it couldve been lost as years passed but blue 1 did have one and the weathering does match up with red 2 weathering minus butt plug (ewww)

 

[robn1]

... the one pic of dykstra painting the red stripes ...

I believe this is Grant McCune

Rob

 

[BrianM]

This thread is amazing! I'm about to start a pyro.

You guys rock,

BrianM