X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models

[Blue 5]

And this is the place for those who DO give a flying ****.

 

[jedimaster]

And this is the place for those who DO give a flying ****.

I do most humbly appologise to all those offended by my last post. I figured this was already covered. Please continue......:facepalm

 

[Miniaturizer Ray]

... shot without motion control under sodium lighting that destroyed the yellows and greens and etc etc etc...

Oops, that one's probably my fault. I put forward the theory that they may have used the Sodium Vapor method (as used in MARY POPPINS), but I don't think there's any evidence to support it. In all probability they used the more common Color Difference method, developed by Petro Vlahos. Using the CDM, to eliminate "blue spill" and/or "blue fringe" in the composite, a certain amount of the blue record (or blue channel, as it's known in the Digital Age) is replaced by the green record. For the miniature photography in STAR WARS, they appear to have gone 100%.

If you want to make full colour pictures look like the movie shots, take 'em into Photoshop and just copy the green channel into the blue channel.

You won't always get an exact match, because the exact colours in the image will depend on both the colour temperature and purity (meaning the relative strengths of wavelengths throughout the spectrum) of the light source(s), and, to a lesser extent, the film stock (or Bayer filter in digital photos) used to take the photo, but you'll generally see the yellows either disappear or become pale pink and the blues and greens become a slightly cyan tinged grey, just as they appear in the movie.

 

[moffeaton]

Does any one have pics of Red Eleventy?

 

[Nwerke]

D'oh. Ray, I would have sworn in court I'd read that from a production source. You're too authoritative for your own good. :lol

Jason, nope...but I do have pics of Eleventy-One. Sorry - I'm under an NDA. It's called being the bigger man.

 

[jedimaster]

Does any one have pics of Red Eleventy?

Pyro or hero?

 

[moffeaton]

Cantwell Prototype, if possible!!!

 

[jedimaster]

Cantwell Prototype, if possible!!!

Blue or red markings?

 

[jedimaster]

Martyn, Did ya get that pic I sent if all the Painted droids in front of pyro red 1? Ya never got back to me.:darnkids

 

[kh39]

I can't find the pictures of Red 3 when it was on display in Japan, so if anybody would care to post those, I'd be interested in seeing them again.

Are these what you are looking for?Sorry I don't have the original picture of the port side.I also attach the screen capture from the lazer disc released in 1995.

 

[Miniaturizer Ray]

Those aren't the pictures that I was thinking of, but thanks for posting them.

To be honest, I keep going back and forth on whether it's the hero Red 3 model or not. What do you think?

 

[kh39]

Those aren't the pictures that I was thinking of, but thanks for posting them.

To be honest, I keep going back and forth on whether it's the hero Red 3 model or not. What do you think?

Sorr!By the way,which angle was it?

Since I don't have a time to read,I don't know what are discussed and who thinks what.lol
But I think it's fun to discuss it.

For me I have no idea whether the RED 3 is hero or pyro,but The RED 3 was used in ANH in my opinion.Maybe someone has already said this,but open your Technical Jounal and look at the third X-Wing from the top in this picture.You can see...I don't know what to say... four raised panels above the Jack. Also the colored panel on the saturn engine.Isn't that the hero red 3?

 

[Nwerke]

It does look like the raised panels on the wing box. And yes, if we're not seeing things, that would make it hero Red 3.
Thank you!

 

[-... . .- --..]

That's definitely Red 3, those raised panels on the rear of the engine boxes were unique to that specific model.

Thanks for posting the higher resolution version of that picture Kaoru.

 

[ILMwannabe]

I've been following this thread with great enthusiasm because it is addressing the persistent mysteries of the ANH studio models, with input from the best and most knowledgable (Beaz, Jason, etc.) and those with priveledged information.

I can understand why Blue 5 has doubts about the Red 3 hero - it stands apart for many different reasons, not all fully explained yet.

I think the evidence points to the fact that it definitely existed in ANH, but what I've never been able to reconcile is its colorful paint job dating back to 1976(?). Yes, two views of it do appear in "The Art of Star Wars" first published in November of 1979 (ESB was of course fully underway by then) although it does take time to prepare books for publishing, but I'm not fully convinced that it had all those funky colors painted during ANH.

I tried "training" myself to spot the heroes in the film footage, taking into account the color washouts and lighting problems discussed earlier. I can now spot the Red Five and Red Leader ships with confidence, as well as most others.

However, the way the Red Three hero appears in the film (ANH) does not seem to match published pictures of it, no matter how hard I try to stretch the imagination. There simply seems to be no hint of the yellows, greens, etc, or any matching markings (except for the three stripes, of course). Even the excellent and new photo posted by Beaz (with D. Muren) seems to show much more subdued colors.

And those clips which seem to show at least some red wing stripes oversprayed into the chamfer and front of the wing - they do not seem to match the published pictures, even before they added the "landing gear doors".

Red Three is now one of the most colorful hero models, but I still believe that it was (at least partially) repainted for ESB. It's original character (Biggs) was lost in ANH, yet it is the only hero model which was filmed in all three movies which originally was meant to represent a destroyed ship. And let's not forget that different lower nose aft section - the only X-Wing to have that, and yet a feature copied on the MPC and Fine Molds kits.

P.S. - can we come to an agreement as to how to more accurately name the Y-Wings? "Triangles" (the one with four dark triangles on each engine apexx) was Gold Five ("Pops"), a blown-up pyro whose engine went flying off. "TIE Killer" was Gold Leader (Dutch), "Blue/Gray" was Gold Two (Tyree), and the "MoM" Y-Wing, with the brownish-green stripes on the engines and silver droid with black markings and a thin red stripe, has unofficially been named "Gold 3" in the Fine Molds instruction sheets. By studying film clips and pictures of that ship, I am convinced that it appears at the end of ESB. The markings seem to match. Lorne Petersen refererred to it as an "unexploded pyro" but they added lights to it and a few more streaks and dirt.
Wish we had a better name for "Red Jammer", and that leaves the "Bill George" Y-Wing with the distinctive R5 droid.

P.P.S. - previous ref. to "Mr. Ladd" - that would be Mr. Alan Ladd Jr. who is still alive and well! Not his deceased actor father! And, since both "leaders" are missing, wouldn't it be plausible that both the Red Leader and Gold Leader hero models were retained by their ultimate creator, Mr. Lucas?

 

[kh39]

I think that's an interesting assumption.I agree that the bottom of the red 3 in the screen capture is resemble to red 1.Since the lower fuselage is vac-formed part,the lower fuselage could be come off from the top and then replaced with the another one.Just my hypothesis though.Since the copy rights is very strict in Japan,I didn't want to upload scan pictures of the book or magazine,but anyway,here are red 3 pictures that are not washed out.

 

[Blue 5]

Sorr!By the way,which angle was it?

Since I don't have a time to read,I don't know what are discussed and who thinks what.lol
But I think it's fun to discuss it.

For me I have no idea whether the RED 3 is hero or pyro,but The RED 3 was used in ANH in my opinion.Maybe someone has already said this,but open your Technical Jounal and look at the third X-Wing from the top in this picture.You can see...I don't know what to say... four raised panels above the Jack. Also the colored panel on the saturn engine.Isn't that the hero red 3?

I have always wondered about the models in this shot, as there are only three models with motorized s-foils and there are four ships; Red Leader, Red 3 and Red 5. My original assumption was that the Red 5 in the foreground was composited over a shot of the three motorized models. But looking at this pic, I can't see the mat line around Red 5, nor can I see a mask line around the third ship in over the last model. It has me scratching my head over how they achieved this shot with only three motorized models. Red 5 is obviously the closest model. And the consensus is that Red 3 is the third one in. In between there is a model with a full side red stripe, so by process of elimination that would be Red Leader. So who is the ship on point?

 

[Miniaturizer Ray]

My assumption about that shot was always that it was (from the right, in the picture) Red 5, Red 3, Red 5, Red 3. One of Red 3's distinguishing features is droopy wings, which the second and fourth ships both have. Really don't know for sure, though, and take your point about no matte line being visible.

 

[kh39]

I think I've seen a picture of lined up three X-Wings are being prepared by Dennis muren or someone in front of the blue screen.I thougt I have the picture,but I can't find it in my X-Wing folder.Does anyone have the pic?

 

[jedimaster]

Not Muren but from page 10