x-wing drawings?

I don't think going by R2's dome would be the proper way to scale up the X. Consider that the R2s for the models appear simplified when compared to the full-size versions. An accurate R2 at that scale might appear different to your eye when compared to the reference.

This is a great thread and just want to says thanks everyone who has contributed. I am seeing these asymmetrical subtleties better now that they are being specifically defined. The taper to the droid strip is found on the Maxi Brute fuselage, something I would have unintentionally corrected. Also the MB goes together in multiple parts, and I believe is based on Red2(Blue Leader)... as a result the front assembly (when push fit) will have a slight upturn. If you shift these parts slightly the fuselage will appear straight measuring 19 15/16" total length.

mbprofile.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'm having an R2 built in CG (for my 1/6th X). From that, (& provided that 1/24th is da Key)
I plan to grow (STL) an R2 in 1/24th as well - to test the 'might appear different' hypothesis.
 
Estes Maxi-Brute:----19¾"
Salzo V3.1 (2009):---19¾" (when nose corrected & filled in)
AMT Pro Shop:------13¾"
MPC (1978):---------10 7/8"
Fine Molds 1/72"------6.4" (6 7/16")


19.750 x 24 = 474.00" = 39.5' = 12.04 m
19.489 x 24 = 467.74' = 39.0' = 11.88 m
13.750 x 35 = 481.25" = 40.1' = 12.22 m
10.875 x 43 = 467.63" = 39.0' = 11.88 m
6.4375 x 72 = 463.50" = 38.6' = 11.77 m

Fine Molds 1/48 kit
fuselage length 245mm x 48 = 11.76 m, ie same as there 1/72 kit.
 
Last edited:
I'm having an R2 built in CG (for my 1/6th X). From that, (& provided that 1/24th is da Key)
I plan to grow (STL) an R2 in 1/24th as well - to test the 'might appear different' hypothesis.

may I ask with what kind of material are you planning to build your 1/6th X-Wing?
 
Kool ava-tag - I'll be working up a 'master-pattern' for molds & subsequent roto-casting so...
were applicable: acrylic, sintra & styrene. (+ some machined acrylic & aluminum partz)
Thanx for crunching those numbers! Looks like she averages-out to 39 ft. (give&take)

Another pic of Mini-Brute!
Eggxplane03.jpg
 
Last edited:
Does anybody know the dimension of full size X-wing used in either ANH or ESB?

and does anybody have any photos of full size x-wing under construction?
 
I have an overall length for Red 3 of about 515mm (or 20 9/32").

Let me explain a little bit about how I'm getting my measurements. To take measurements from photographs, we ideally want the photographs, at the very least, to exhibit mathematical perspective. Mathematical perspective just means the same rules of perspective that artists use:

image2f.gif


(the main difference being that an artist will generally draw a sphere with a more or less circular silhouette, whereas the true mathematical perspective projection - which, incidentally, is what you get if you take a picture with a pinhole camera and a flat image plane - can distort spheres into elongated egg shapes).

Photographs, however, typically exhibit a certain amount of lens distortion, most commonly noticed as "barrel distortion", where straight lines appear to bow outwards (telephoto lenses often exhibit a certain amount of "pincushion distortion", the opposite effect). As a rough rule of thumb, it's generally held that you can't totally eliminate lens distortion from photographs where the subject is less than about ten feet away.

Unfortunately, most of the x-wing pictures were taken from no more than a couple of feet away, and some from as close as four inches.

However, point and shoot digital cameras like the Coolpix 990 which was used to take many of the x-wing pictures have very small sensors, and lenses that are rather smaller than typical 35mm camera lenses. The Coolpix 990 sensor is just 7.18mm wide, compared to 36mm for a full frame of 35mm film, so we can essentially imagine the Coolpix 990 as being a one fifth scale model of a full size 35mm camera. In other words, a picture taken with the Coolpix 990 two feet away from a two foot long subject will look the same as a picture taken with a 35mm camera ten feet away from a ten foot long subject. In reality, the situation is not quite as favourable, because the Coolpix 990 has a rather larger lens than a 1/5 scale model camera would have, but we can surmise that whilst we can't entirely eliminate the lens distortion in the pictures, we can get rid of a great deal of it.

I processed the x-wing pictures with a program called PTLens. The software automatically corrected the distortion based on the camera model and focal length information contained in the EXIF data in the picture files. In some cases, the distortion was obviously not fully eliminated; you can see here, for example, that there's still some visible curvature on the upper wing, which was only about six inches from the camera:

flipper27.gif


but overall, the results seem fairly close to perfect.

Next, I loaded the pictures into Autodesk Imagemodeler, which I used to calculate the positions of virtual cameras in 3d space. At this point, a certain amount of human error is added to the residual distortion error because to create the cameras, you define points in each image which correspond to points in the other images. For complete mathematical accuracy, you would need to determine the exact position of each point to the smallest fraction of a pixel. Imagemodeler determines the average position of the intersections between projected rays from each camera, and indicates the error for each point in each picture. Of the 212 x-wing pictures, I found that 45 had no errors greater than about 0.5mm, so I imported those virtual cameras into 3ds Max.

As a reference measurement, I chose the Airfix Saturn V part 44. I decided that, because the rear of the part was sanded off for the x-wing, and because it's possible that the part might splay inwards or outwards to a certain degree - either theirs during the course of converting it into an x-wing engine, or mine, simply from having other parts pressing on it while it was sitting in the box - the longest measurement that I could absolutely rely on was the distance between the two bands of stringers. In hindsight, I might have chosen the length of the "plank" that runs most of the length of the part, but either I was too stupid to think of it at the time, or I had a good reason not to that I've since forgotten.

Anyway, I built a 3d poly model of the Sat V part and carefully aligned it to match the camera views to check that I hadn't made some stupid mistake with my calculations:

reference.jpg


In the above image, the blue line is my reference measurement, the red lines show the 3d poly Sat V, and the green line is exactly 1mm back from the front edge, just to try and indicate that everything lines up pretty good, and isn't off by anything like 1mm.

Now, from a measurement point of view, here's the biggest fly in the ointment, and the main point of this long post.

I don't know whether my Sat V is the same size as their Sat V.

I've worked as an injection moulding toolsetter, although we never produced model kits. The factors affecting the size of an injection moulded part are shot weight, injection speed, injection pressure, holding pressure and cooling time. Plus, of course, once out of the mould and fully cooled, the part will change size slightly according to temperature.

Where I worked, the tolerance on a part that size would generally be .2mm or (for most parts, much) less, but I have no idea what the situation was at Airfix in the 1970s. Personally, I think it's extremely unlikely that the tolerance would be as high as .5mm, but lets be pessimistic and say that it was. Let's continue being pessimistic and imagine that my Sat V is at one end of the tolerance, and ILM's is at the other end. So my Sat V is 1mm smaller or larger than theirs.

Let's be pessimistic again and say that the matching errors that I've spoken of above are all working together, so that even though my 3d Sat V appears to line up pretty good with theirs, there's an invisible .5mm error there, too.

The overall length of the Sat V part is a little under 91mm. So, pessimistically, every 91mm that I measure might actually be as small as 89.5mm, or as large as 92.5mm.

515/91=5.66. 5.66 x 1.5mm = 8.5mm

So, ultimately, the length of the Red 3 fuselage is almost certainly between about 506mm (19 29/32") and 524mm (20 5/8").
 
Pretty sure the X-wing R2 units weren't in correct scale with the pilot figures, so they're not a good scaling cue. (Or they are, and the pilot and cockpit aren't, depending on your taste.) Anyone confirm?

well a certain person who is now banned on here did an amazing x-wing.

Miniaturizer Ray is not banned, he is right here contributing (awesomely) to this thread.

Ray, I think you've proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the hero fuses were 20", or at least the hero master was. I've never seen variation anything like 1mm in the Airfix Saturn parts and I'm pretty sure it'd be a rare thing to find one that much shorter.
 
Thanx M Ray, ...according to your calculations how many mm across is the dome of an R2 unit? (come-on 19 mm!)

That's a bit of a tough one. To accurately measure the diameter, you need landmarks to line up to, and to see the landmarks you need to look at close-ups. Remember from my last post, the closer the camera, the greater the distortion error.

Also, remember, as others have pointed out, that the R2 units were primarily an R2-shaped plug for the mounting hole rather than an accurate scale model of a full-size R2.

That being said, I'd say that the dome diameter is about 18.3mm
 
have you tried this technique with the full size x-wing set?

McDonell Douglas built Saturn V Rocket 3rd Stage Diameter 21.7' = 260.4" = 6614mm / 144 = 45.93mm

is this the diameter you have?

on Fine Molds 1:48 X-wing Kit, the Saturn V parts measure almost exactly 44.0 mm x 21.6 mm.

since Airfix Saturn V part measure 91mm, it tells me that either studio model was not 1:24
or Fine Molds model is not 1:48.

If studio is 1:24 then fine molds 1:48 is actually. 1:49.63 (=91/44x24)
or if fine molds is truely 1:48 than studio scale is 1:23.2 (=44/91x48)

full size fuselage then

from fine molds 245mm x 49.63 = 12.159m = 478.7" = 39.89'

over all length of fine molds 1:48 is 273mm.
273 x 48 = 13.104m = 516" = 42.99'
273 x 49.63 = 13.549m = 533" = 44.45'

fine molds R2 diamter is 9.6mm

9.6 x 48 = 460.8 mm = 18.14"
9.6 x 49.63 = 476.5 mm = 18.76":cry:angry
 
Last edited:
Too many unknowns. The Red 3 pictures have Focal length information in the EXIF data, and PTLens has calibration data for the specific camera models used. Any pictures that might turn up of the sets would require one to guess what equipment was used to take them. You could probably get some sort of useful information by using the R2 dimensions as your reference measurements, but he's tiny compared to the whole ship, so any errors would be greatly magnified. I don't think the results would justify the amount of work involved.

I'd certainly be interested in seeing any pictures of the full-size ships though. The ESB ones seem to be fairly faithful to the miniatures.
 
Pretty sure the X-wing R2 units weren't in correct scale with the pilot figures, so they're not a good scaling cue. (Or they are, and the pilot and cockpit aren't, depending on your taste.) Anyone confirm?

Miniaturizer Ray is not banned, he is right here contributing (awesomely) to this thread.

Ray, I think you've proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the hero fuses were 20", or at least the hero master was. I've never seen variation anything like 1mm in the Airfix Saturn parts and I'm pretty sure it'd be a rare thing to find one that much shorter.

Agreed, about 20" seems perfect to everything I've been using as reference. Considering the noses were separate from the fuselage with only the surface contact to the front of the styrene bottom to keep it consistent... this could easily be the point of individual length variation and could account for some mm.

I have both an old version of the Saturn V kit (before the mold damage) and a later release before the retool. I'll get the calipers on there and see if there is a difference.
 
I'm liking the 20" - which works out to 40 ft. in 1/24th scale.
40 ft. in 1/6th scale is 80" or 6ft.& 6in. Nice round numbers!
Now if the drawings that are being worked-up can render cross-section bulkheads at every 8" or so - I'll die a happy modeleer.
Re: 1/1 scale Xwing - pics of that & the 4ftr. would be indespencable.
Are there posts that might have images of the two?
 
I'm liking the 20" - which works out to 40 ft. in 1/24th scale.
40 ft. in 1/6th scale is 80" or 6ft.& 6in. Nice round numbers!
Now if the drawings that are being worked-up can render cross-section bulkheads at every 8" or so - I'll die a happy modeleer.
Re: 1/1 scale Xwing - pics of that & the 4ftr. would be indespencable.
Are there posts that might have images of the two?


I think it is not necessary to have cross section for every 8 inches.

8 or 9 cross sections should be enough for creating bulkheads, as shown below.

any one here willing to donate cross sections of 3D X-wing fighter?:cry:angry
 
Last edited:
I have both an old version of the Saturn V kit (before the mold damage) and a later release before the retool. I'll get the calipers on there and see if there is a difference.

It's not really about the re-tooling (I'm using a part from 1975).

When you injection mould a thermoplastic, the liquid plastic is injected into the mould, and then held under pressure for a "holding time", because, as you're undoubtedly aware, most substances expand with temperature. If there was no holding pressure, as the part cooled, it would shrink away from the walls of the mould and be undersize. The part is then held in the mould, which is water cooled, until the plastic solidifies, then ejected. When you're setting up the run, if the part is coming out oversize, you can dial down the shot weight, the injection pressure, the holding pressure or the holding time, or any combination of these, to reduce the size of the part. On the other hand, if the part is coming out undersize, you can dial them up to increase the size. If you set them up too high, though, the plastic will force itself into the split line of the mould and produce flashing on the part.

Additionally, though, if you reduce the cooling time too much, to try and speed up the run, the part will be ejected before it's fully solidified, and because it's been held under pressure, the internal pressure in the part will cause it to expand to a size larger than the mould that it's been ejected from.

There must be some physical limit to how small a part can get without voids or sinks, and to how large a part can get without severe flashing, but I have no idea how to calculate it.

If enough people measure their Sat V part 44 (preferably to at least 0.1mm), we might get some idea of how much the size varies.
 
i think the r2 units on the models had "been on diets" haha

back when i scaled down my full-size r2, modeled based on the schematics from the builders club, he seems kind-of squat and fat.

here's a couple pics of my older X model with the scaled down R2
View attachment 20058View attachment 20059View attachment 20060


excellent work. if you can post top, bottom, rear views also, that would be Great!

why don't everybody who is working on 3D model show their work.

preferably in orthographic views, so that they will be easy to compare.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ9Sew4MuZc
 
Last edited:
Back
Top