""The costume is a flag, but the way we're getting around that is we have Steve Rogers forced into the USO circuit. After he's made into this super-soldier, they decide they can't send him into combat and risk him getting killed. He's the only one and they can't make more. So they say, 'You're going to be in this USO show' and they give him a flag suit. He can't wait to get out of it."
That's a whole new concept and it's one that sounds pretty promising. "It was never in the comics," Johnston said, "because they didn't really need it. In comics, he puts on the costume and the reader just justifies because of the nature of the medium."
Now what bothers me is, if the director considers the comic book version of Captain America "Jingoistic" (which many here have agreed that he's not), then I can only imagine the end product will be even LESS patriotic.
Good article! And I think it describes a situation that effectively handles the costume issues.
Let's face it. Cap's traditional costume would look really friggin' goofy in real life, and would also look completely out of place on a battlefield. They can still include it in the film by making him an unwilling USO performer who cannot wait to get out and mix it up with the enemy (you know, the reason he signed up?).
Again, I think the relevant pieces of the article are as follows:
"So he's up on stage doing songs and dances with chorus girls and he can't wait to get out and really fight. When he does go AWOL, he covers up the suit but then, after a few things happen, he realizes that this uniform allows him to lead. By then, he's become a star in the public mind and a symbol. The guys get behind him because he embodies something special."
There will be more than one costume in the film, too.
In the first USO sequences, the frustrated patriot will be wearing a version that is closer to the classic Jack Kirby-designed costume, but then later as the super-soldier hits the war zone he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs. The stripes across his mid-section, for instance, will be straps, not colored fabric.
"He realizes the value of the uniform symbols but he modifies his suit and adds some armor, it will be closer to the Cpa [sic -- I think they mean "Cap"] costume in some of the comics in more recent years . . . this approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything. The government essentially puts him up there as a living comic-book character and he rips it off and then reclaims some of its imagery after he recognizes the value of it. We think it's the best way to keep the costume and explain it at the same time."
They've already shown the Cap outfit with the modified armor and such, so we all knew that was coming. This actually lets them include the traditional outfit as well, but explain why he isn't wearing it in the film aside from those sequences.
Anyway, getting back to Johnston's comments, again, bear in mind that this is a dude who came of age during Vietnam (born in 1950). He probably had buddies who protested the war. He likely thinks ill of Richard Nixon. You see where I'm going with this?
For people who grew up in that generation, the "expected" version of Cap is some jingoistic flag-waving patriot-zombie. Like I said, Team America. Also bear in mind that for folks like this, Batman is Adam West, ok? The world was very very different then. When Johnston says "It won't be like what people expect," my hunch is that he's saying "It won't be like I thought of Cap." But that's not to say they're going to neuter him and turn him into Captain Planet, guys.
As I say, the Baby Boomers have a VERY different view of Captain America -- and indeed all things that are symbolically patriotic -- than we do nowadays. Think of the irony and bitter disillusionment inherent in things like Hendrix playing The Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock (and then smoothly segueing into Purple Haze), or Peter Fonda's "Captain America" drug dealing biker in Easy Rider.
The patriotic symbols of WWII were roundly rejected by the Boomers as the ways in which their parents were manipulated and the ways in which their parents' generation was trying to manipulate THEM into fighting the Vietnam War. For folks like that, these kinds of symbols aren't symbols of freedom, justice, truth, "The American Way," etc. Quite the contrary -- they're symbols of manipulation, control, and lies. So for them, Cap -- the 1940s/1960s version, that is -- is some cornball super-powered boyscout who's just like all those ROTC squares who tried to act like Vietnam was some big "fight for freedom" or whatever, and they weren't buying it.
(Side note: I'm not claiming any personal stance on Vietnam myself here -- just pointing out the perspective of MANY in that generation)
So, pretty much, for them, when you say stuff that many of us here ALREADY know -- like the fact that Cap isn't some knee-jerk Team America type, even though he really DOES love what America stands for, and that he'll fight against his superiors to uphold higher values -- it comes as a surprise. Thus, even if it was a direct translation of Cap from, say, the 1980s on to the screen, I suspect Johnston would still say "It's not like what you expect."
I think the only thing this suggests is that Johnston cannot help but filter the idea of Cap through his OWN perspective, without really recognizing what modern comic fans think of Cap. When he says "not a flag waver", try to think about it from HIS perspective because I'm betting he ISN'T thinking about it from yours exactly. I agree that, if this were comments coming from someone like Zack Snyder I'd be a LOT more concerned, but given that this is coming from a guy who grew up in the 1950s and 1960s -- with an ENTIRELY different vision of Cap and the world around him -- I'm a lot less concerned.
I found another article that gives me a lot of hope, as well as an interesting angle, on Cap. I think this could turn out to be pretty good. It definitely signals that the director intends to make not just a one-dimensional action hero movie, which is a treatment I think Cap deserves.
"So he's up on stage doing songs and dances with chorus girls and he can't wait to get out and really fight. When he does go AWOL, he covers up the suit but then, after a few things happen, he realizes that this uniform allows him to lead. By then, he's become a star in the public mind and a symbol. The guys get behind him because he embodies something special."
I want him back designing Imperial fighters. Seriously. Give him the director's chair if that's what it takes to get him to do it; it couldn't result in anything worse than the prequels. But that's his forte, let's face it. He's a frickin god in that field, and I'm not damning with faint praise here. As a design junkie I'm almost prepared to overlook bad direction when design is sufficiently inspiring.
I am willing to give the film a chance, but after the concept art came out I wondered how they would sell Captain AMERICA to a European audience. Toning down the American pride might be one way.
The difficulty I see with a Character like this whom I've been reading since I was a kid and I'm in my 40's now ...
Is they are trying to please everyone, which is Not possible, some people in our country don't even like the American Flag being waved around at holiday events...
To me Captain America embodies the ultimate Patriot, his character is also a symbol of all that made America great from the start.
The Director did a great job Directing "The Rocketeer" so I look forward to seeing what he does with Captain America, that being said... I don't think it will meet everyones expectations.
To me the Shield looks great, the costume isn't exact to the original but if the character is done right that could be easily overlooked.
Steve Rogers tried to join the Army to fight for his country but was too Frail to be allowed in, he was labeled 4-F, Denied! Upon hearing this he claimed he would do anything to fight for his country, "Anything", a Special Operations officer heard this and Rogers was signed-up for the Top Secret "Super Soldier" program which was to create an Army of Perfect Soldiers to fight against the Nazis, after witnessing Frail Steve Rogers transformation into the perfect Soldier a Nazi Spy killed the Doctor who created the Super Soldier Formula, that's why there is only One Captain America.
Having already Directed the most American Iconic Movie Superhero, I'd be interested to ask Richard Donner how he would direct a Captain America Motion Picture!
Donner had no problem having the character say "Truth, Justice, and the American way!"
Nowadays, it's all about the $$$. If you want to make the really big bucks, the movie has to do well not just in the US, but in the international market as well.
That's why in the latest Superman movie, they had Perry White say "Truth, Justice, and all that stuff!"... couldn't even have him say that Superman stands for the "American" way.
Well we all know that GI Joe movie was a tremendous success after they messed with it.
Personally I think they should just use the comic books as reference and avoid all "graphic novels" because the comics are where the characters originated. Graphic novels took the characters to a different place of mental anguish, despair, and other "feelings crap" like that!
I just want to see HULK SMASH, and Captain America SOCK and Spidey THWIP, and Wolverine SNIKT.........is that too much to ask?
I simply read it like this:
"Captain America traditionally will side for America, even when she's wrong. Our Captain will still be all-american, but will do what's right even if it's not entirely american."
Well we all know that GI Joe movie was a tremendous success after they messed with it.
Personally I think they should just use the comic books as reference and avoid all "graphic novels" because the comics are where the characters originated. Graphic novels took the characters to a different place of mental anguish, despair, and other "feelings crap" like that!
I just want to see HULK SMASH, and Captain America SOCK and Spidey THWIP, and Wolverine SNIKT.........is that too much to ask?
Confusion,self doubt and self loathing is what Marvel superheroes are all about and Stan Lee figured it out in the sixties!
Wolverine is a very torn character who battles with his extreme animal nature, his dangerous secret agent training, and his desire to be a hero in his current life.
Spidey is constantly endangering his loved ones in order to live up to a mistake he made years ago that killed his uncle. He is forever beating himself up over this.
This multi-dimensional aspect to the Marvel pantheon is a trademark of the characters from the beginning and not just a recent development.
Confusion,self doubt and self loathing is what Marvel superheroes are all about and Stan Lee figured it out in the sixties!
Wolverine is a very torn character who battles with his extreme animal nature, his dangerous secret agent training, and his desire to be a hero in his current life.
Spidey is constantly endangering his loved ones in order to live up to a mistake he made years ago that killed his uncle. He is forever beating himself up over this.
This multi-dimensional aspect to the Marvel pantheon is a trademark of the characters from the beginning and not just a recent development.
Confusion,self doubt and self loathing is what Marvel superheroes are all about and Stan Lee figured it out in the sixties!
Wolverine is a very torn character who battles with his extreme animal nature, his dangerous secret agent training, and his desire to be a hero in his current life.
Spidey is constantly endangering his loved ones in order to live up to a mistake he made years ago that killed his uncle. He is forever beating himself up over this.
This multi-dimensional aspect to the Marvel pantheon is a trademark of the characters from the beginning and not just a recent development.
This. You can take it as pure action if you want, but the rest of it's always been there. Granted, different writers in different eras have dealt with this stuff in different ways, but it's always been part of the characters, not just pure BIFF POW SOCK SPLAM ZORF FLEEG action.
What I'm trying to say is that majority of the Marvel flicks are going to be ACTION movies so you would expect more SPFX, CGI, etc and a medium amount of character despair. With characters like Thor and Cap there is some character despair but both of these are more about action, fighting, and going after the bad guys.
Well, yeah, but that's true for ALL comic book movies. There has to be some kind of turmoil for the characters or the movie is basically little more than The Transporter -- an excuse to go from one action sequence to the next with no sense of the characters at all.
I don't think it'll be all sadness and despair in these films, but rather characters who are more than just two-dimensional "I beat stuff up!" cartoon figures. Hell, even Guy Gardner in the Green Lantern Corps comics has shown himself to be more than JUST a loudmouthed braggart.
