Why do bad guys have the guns in post apocalyptic movies?

If it's the zombie apocalypse, where you have people who panic fire, are learning to shoot and/or are dealing with massive groups of the undead, it'd be a couple of months to at most a year (depending on how much ammo they saved up and conserve).

Apply that same scenario and set of rules to a melee weapon and the chances of survival is reduced minutes for the average Joe... People are not going to pick up a melee weapon and turn into an Invincible Kill Bill Ninja...

Melee weapons require very close contact and extreme physical exertion, I'd give the average person a few minutes in real hand to hand before they collapse from exhaustion or get poke themselves on a good day without years of training and discipline...

If it was something like seen with The Road, it'd be a year minimum, two at most,

Two at most? Based on what? Unless you are spraying bullets, I can easily see a stockpile of 10s of thousands lasting well beyond my life... And if you are spraying bullets constantly to survive do you really believe you would have an advantage with a melee? How many hours a day do you think you could endure of hand to hand combat?

For example, if the only gun you have is a fully automatic machine gun, even with semi-auto, goes through a fifteen round clip rather quick).

And if the only melee weapon you have is a drum stick? Or your sword blade breaks? The extreme what ifs go both ways...

Even if either scenario occurred, after five years, ammo and supplies to make them would be completely gone (unless you happen to be a science wiz and can scratchbuild your own gunpower and primers).

As opposed to learning how to scratch build effective and durable melee weapons? I don't believe you really have a grasp at just how many bullets, primers and how much gunpowder exist in the world... There are caves and warehouses packed full of bullets, they are not going to just disappear... And if your life depended on it, yes I can see people tooling up and manufacturing new bullets, it's not really that far fetched as the machinery and knowledge is existing...

The only flaw with that is that you're looking at it from the point of view of someone who A. has a gun and B. has ammo for that gun.

Why is this a flaw? Do you honestly believe that it's that unlikely that you would encounter anyone that had gun that goes *bang*?

What if this scenario occurred after all the ammo in the continent had completely used use, including supplies to make them?

What if all the supplies used to make melee weapons was gone as well? What ifs can go both ways...

Then the person with the best weapon, which would be the swordsman, would have the upper hand while the person with the empty gun would be screwed.

What if the gun wasn't empty, and the guy didn't have a sword, seems the empty handed swordsman would be screwed... Again extreme what ifs go both ways...

You can toss up what ifs all day that favor one side or another, it really doesn't get you far as it's easily reversed...
 
I think the real question is, would anyone dare to be a bad guy in a post-apocalyptic world if he/she didn't have a gun?
Most would just follow whatever flock they could, until they had acquired some sort of remedy to make them selves feel powerful (like a gun, or a car), and then they'd have the confidence to show what a bad guy they can be.
 
ammo is heavy you can only carry so much. If you have a a base ammo stockpiles are cool. If you need to move (especially on foot) weight will become an issue

Although good for TV and movies, I don't believe in a survival situation that being a roaming nomad, constantly exposing yourself to unknowns and relying on only the supplies you can carry on your self is favorable for survival...

And you only have so much physical endurance and luck/skill for hand to hand close quarters melee combat... By the time you can take the defensive you are physically in harms way already...

The average adult can easily carry a few hundred rounds of 9mm, enough ammo to dispose of dozens of enemy combatants as they approach before they can cause physical contact and harm, do you believe the average adult with say a sword could dispose of the same number of enemy combatants as effectively?
 
Apply that same scenario and set of rules to a melee weapon and the chances of survival is reduced minutes for the average Joe... People are not going to pick up a melee weapon and turn into an Invincible Kill Bill Ninja...

I didn't say anything about swords. The problem with swords (of any style) is that most are made out of cheap materials nowadays, and would even break. When I say melee weapons, I mean stuff that can easily be used, like a baseball bat, an ax, a crowbar, piece of steel pipe or even a machete. Again, you're looking at things from the current world around you, not at a world in a post apocalyptic environment.

Melee weapons require very close contact and extreme physical exertion, I'd give the average person a few minutes in real hand to hand before they collapse from exhaustion or get poke themselves on a good day without years of training and discipline...

Yes, all that is true. But with a baseball bat to the head, or a machete chop to the skull, or even an ax to the neck gives you an upperhand. That's less weight you have to carry if you need to move (as you'd have to carry more weight for not just the gun, but for the ammo and spare parts for the gun). Plus, melee weapons are great for stealth attacks, as you don't have to worry about it making a loud "bang" and alerting people to where you are.

And in a zombie outbreak scenario, a melee weapon actually gives you MORE time. It gives you about a few more seconds. And in that kind of scenario, seconds can be the difference between staying alive or getting dead.


Two at most? Based on what? Unless you are spraying bullets, I can easily see a stockpile of 10s of thousands lasting well beyond my life... And if you are spraying bullets constantly to survive do you really believe you would have an advantage with a melee? How many hours a day do you think you could endure of hand to hand combat?

If you're spraying bullets, no, you're going to end up dead because you're not smart to think with your head and are firing from the hip without thinking twice about it. At least with melee weapons, you don't have to reload and you don't have to worry about it jamming at a crucial moment where the difference between living and dying is to kill your attacker.

And if the only melee weapon you have is a drum stick? Or your sword blade breaks? The extreme what ifs go both ways...

Again: I didn't say anything about swords. The problem with swords (of any style) is that most are made out of cheap materials nowadays, and would even break. When I say melee weapons, I mean stuff that can easily be used, like a baseball bat, an ax, a crowbar, piece of steel pipe or even a machete. Again, you're looking at things from the current world around you, not at a world in a post apocalyptic environment.

And if anyone picked up a drumstick to use as a melee weapon, they deserve to end up dead.

As opposed to learning how to scratch build effective and durable melee weapons? I don't believe you really have a grasp at just how many bullets, primers and how much gunpowder exist in the world... There are caves and warehouses packed full of bullets, they are not going to just disappear... And if your life depended on it, yes I can see people tooling up and manufacturing new bullets, it's not really that far fetched as the machinery and knowledge is existing...

Okay. Show me a picture of one of these so-called "caves full of bullets" that you're talking about. And tell me, are these "caves" easy to find? Doe every average joe know about them? Or is it just the government? If its just the government, and the government goes out quickly in any post apocalyptic scenario, then how are average joes suppose to know where to go to find these caves?

With the way you're presenting this, it appears you're expecting the video game scenario of what a post-apocalyptic environment, where you can run around, find weapons and a small stockpile of bullets and ammo, and first aid kits and a full cache of food. That is not how it would be. Everything we know would have limited supplies. Vehicles, unless you're a genius and know how to create a steam-powered vehicle (which not everyone does), would be almost useless because of the limited amount of gas everyone would have access to. Meat from the supermarket would be completely gone. Water would only be available if you found a river or when it rained, and even that could be dangerous.


Why is this a flaw? Do you honestly believe that it's that unlikely that you would encounter anyone that had gun that goes *bang*?

Again, you're looking at it from a world where we have supplies for making ammo and where ammo is available. NOT from a world where supplies are limited/gone and not available to everyone. History has proven if Melee weapons existed as far back as that, then they'll more than likely be around a long time after a post apocalyptic event occurs, it just depends on the environment around you.


What if all the supplies used to make melee weapons was gone as well? What ifs can go both ways...

Melee weapons have been around for much longer than powder-propelled weapons. Cavemen used rocks, clubs made from wood and even bones as weapons.

What if the gun wasn't empty, and the guy didn't have a sword, seems the empty handed swordsman would be screwed... Again extreme what ifs go both ways...

You can toss up what ifs all day that favor one side or another, it really doesn't get you far as it's easily reversed...

Again, you're looking at the scenario in the video game scenario of what the post apocalyptic environment would be. If it was the swords guy from Raiders vs. The Man from The Road, and the Man used the only two bullets he's got left, how do you think he'd far in the next scenario of finding another man with a melee weapon? He and his son would be dead unless he switched to using a melee weapon.

Let's face it, if you had a steel pipe and an empty gun, do you really think you'd last long with the empty gun? No, you wouldn't. Be it the zombie apocalypse, the gasless wasteland or even the world portrayed in The Road, you'd last longer with the steel pipe. It's silent, never has to reload and its good enough to subdue a person. Yes, you end up giving up the comfort of doing a "long distance kill", but think of it like this, the military trains people to use VARIOUS weapons and combat skills, including those that require hand to hand combat. You're pretty much asking the question "Who needs a knife in a nuke fight?" I'm saying not everyone has access to a nuke, and a knife may be the only thing they do have (and if they do have it, then they should use it the best they can).

In a post-apocalyptic scenario there are only two primarily items that are simple and basically can keep you alive: a melee weapon and your head.

If you think guns are going to be around for decades after such an apocalyptic event, by all means, go ahead and grab your gun and good luck. But when the bullets run out, think about how good a melee weapon would be at that moment. I'm agreeing to disagree with you and I'm done with it.
 
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Again, you're looking at things from the current world around you, not at a world in a post apocalyptic environment.

Yes, because I'm not silly enough to believe that every physical object just vaporizes around me... Where did all these things disappear to?

Yes, all that is true. But with a baseball bat to the head, or a machete chop to the skull, or even an ax to the neck gives you an upperhand.

Only if your batting average is 100% and you are always first in line...

That's less weigh you have to carry (as you'd have to carry more weight for not just the gun, but for the ammo and spare parts for the gun).

What happen when your baseball bat breaks?

And in a zombie outbreak scenario, a melee weapon actually gives you MORE time. It gives you about a few more seconds. And in that kind of scenario, seconds can be the difference between staying alive or getting dead.

Only if they materialize out of thin air within 6 feet of you, so you can actually use the melee...

At least with melee weapons, you don't have to reload and you don't have to worry about it jamming at a crucial moment where the difference between living and dying is to kill your attacker.

No instead you have to worry about the enemy in close quarters getting their physical attacks in, taking your melee, your melee breaking, your melee being immobilized by one attacker, and the list could go on...

I mean stuff that can easily be used, like a baseball bat, an ax, a crowbar, piece of steel pipe or even a machete. Again, you're looking at things from the current world around you, not at a world in a post apocalyptic environment.

Yeah because everything besides melee weapons just vanished... :unsure

And if anyone picked up a drumstick to use as a melee weapon, they deserve to end up dead.

Same could be said if you decide to spray full auto fire just because...

Okay. Show me a picture of one of these so-called "caves full of bullets" that you're talking about. And tell me, are these "caves" easy to find? Doe every average joe know about them? Or is it just the government? If its just the government, and the government goes out quickly in any post apocalyptic scenario, then how are average joes suppose to know where to go to find these caves?


Easy hit up military bases and instalations, that is where the stockpiles are going to be easiest to find ;) As I said previous if you don't believe they exist you obviously do not follow the gun market as surplus ammo and weapons are forever flowing, millions upon millions of rounds and 100s of thousands of guns... The military has tons of stockpiles, as do many 'extremist' heck I'm only a causal shooter and I can say without doubt that I have a few 1000s rounds myself... Heck the local Wal-Mart easily has a thousands of rounds, their distribution centers has to have 100s of thousands of rounds...

With the way you're presenting this, it appears you're expecting the video game scenario of what a post-apocalyptic environment, where you can run around, find weapons and a small stockpile of bullets and ammo, and first aid kits and a full cache of food. That is not how it would be.

Did all that stuff vaporize into thin air all the sudden? If not then yeah it will still be found and picked up by someone along the way... A guy dies and his gun and bullets just don't disappear do they?

Everything we know would have limited supplies. Vehicles, unless you're a genius and know how to create a steam-powered vehicle (which not everyone does), would be almost useless because of the limited amount of gas everyone would have access to.

It hardly takes a genius to make ethanol, or bio diesel... In fact it's pretty elementary...

Meat from the supermarket would be completely gone.

But, canned an processed meats would last years...

Water would only be available if you found a river or when it rained, and even that could be dangerous.

Huh? How about a lake? A pond? A water reservoir? A swimming pool or any other object that catches and holds water? The ocean? How about a well? How about morning dew? How about digging down give or take 2 feet in my area until you hit ground water? A little power generator, some home brewed ethanol and the existing well in tons of rural residences...

What is fantasy is believing that all traces of modern tech would somehow vanish...

Again, you're looking at it from a world where we have supplies for making ammo and where ammo is available. NOT from a world where supplies are limited/gone and not available to everyone.

And again, yes I'm looking at it from what we have now, because it's not going to vanish... Where do you think everything is going to go?

Melee weapons have been around for much longer than powder-propelled weapons. Cavemen used rocks, clubs made from wood and even bones as weapons.

So? He also had a live expectancy of much less...

and the Man used the only two bullets he's got left, how do you think he'd far in the next scenario of finding another man with a melee weapon?
About as far as the guy who breaks his melee weapon...

Let's face it, if you had a steel pipe and an empty gun, do you really think you'd last long with the empty gun?

Let's face it, if you had a steel pipe and the other guy had a loaded gun do you think you would last long?

No, you wouldn't.

In a post-apocalyptic scenario there are only two primarily items that are simple and basically can keep you alive: a melee weapon and your head.

Until you come across someone with a loaded gun...
 
Okay, go ahead and believe that all this "modern technology" is going to continue to work without electricity to power them (even rechargeable batteries have a limited lifespan). Try to get to these suppose "supply depots" at these army bases, warehouses and "caves", which you and thousands of others who also heard the same thing is going to do (much like how everyone who has seen Dawn of the Dead think that holding up in a store during the zombie apocalypse is a great idea, and how out of all those millions, there's probably going to be thousands at your nearby mall, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, supermarket, etc). Believe that there will be an unlimited cache of weapons and ammo and supplies that will last for thousands of years. But that doesn't make it so.

And to answer your question: EVERYTHING either expires or is used up. When you eat food from that's sitting in your fridge and run low, do you open the door and expect it to be magically restocked? No. You have to leave your residence to the store to go get them. You have to go to a store to get those supplies, which are readily available to you. Those stores get the supplies from suppliers. Suppliers get the raw material to make items. That is true about anything. Books, food, weapons AND ammo. If there is no supplier to make the items, the stores run out of those items because of supply and demand. So, if there's no suppliers making the items, then there's no items available, and those that are left over eventually runs out. For example, let's say that Smooth-On files for Chapter 11 and decides to completely close down. They've stopped making Smooth-On products. Stores that have Smooth-On will sell of their remaining stock to costumers until they have no more Smooth-On products to sell. And those costumers that bought the Smooth-On products are stuck with the limited amount they have. And eventually, they'll run out of what they have on a long enough timeframe.

So, when you state "where do they magically disappear to?" They "magically" disappear because of usage of that supply. If there's no more suppliers of the ammo, then there's no ammo ready to use for guns. And if there's no ammo ready to use for guns, guns become completely useless. And if anyone happens to find a stock of ammo, that stock they find will eventually run low and then run out. You'd have better luck with a weapon that doesn't require ammo or has reusable ammo, such a melee weapons or a crossbow/bow and arrow.
 
Yeah, but it would take probably 50-100 years for ammo to run out in the U.S. That is unless there are giant post apocalyptic wars or something.
 
Okay, go ahead and believe that all this "modern technology" is going to continue to work without electricity to power them

What happened to electricity, did it vanish as well?

I will continue to believe tech will still exist because that is reality, unless it poofs into thin air... It's not rocket science to make electricity, in fact it's quite easy, you don't need the local electric company to do it for you... There are 1000s upon 1000s of generators out there that can run off natural gas, diesel or gas... Ethanol, bio-diesel and natural gas are easy enough to make in small personal use quantities... Or heck eve peddle power, steam or running water... Solar panels? Windmills? All can be tapped for electricity as they will still exist, that is unless they all went poof into thin air as well?

even rechargeable batteries have a limited lifespan

What does that have to do with anything? I'm not looking ot power my ipod and cell phone while I'm out hunting in a survival situation...

Try to get to these suppose "supply depots" at these army bases, warehouses and "caves", which you and thousands of others who also heard the same thing is going to do

Someone has to get to them, it's either me or the next guy... Either way someone is going to get to them and that someone will have billions of bullets and millions of guns, while you have an iron pipe and crow bar :unsure

Believe that there will be an unlimited cache of weapons and ammo and supplies that will last for thousands of years. But that doesn't make it so.

Thousands of years? I don't have to believe there is an unlimited cache as it's of course finite, but that cache is still more than enough for my lifetime and than some...

If I'm in a survival situation I'm focused on MY lifespan, not what 50 generations later will be doing in 1000 years time... Heck I'm hardly focused on what will be happening in 1000 years right now, are you?

Our current industrial revolution has only been give or take 200 years, to believe that we could not rebuild a functional infrastructure in less time is just silly when we would merely be coping what has already been done, with the tech that was already invented and made...

And to answer your question: EVERYTHING either expires or is used up.

In regards to bullets, not in my lifetime...

"Annual global output of military specification small arms ammunition is estimated to be in the region of 10–14 billion rounds, or between 27 and 38 million rounds per day."

FYI that is enough bullets made each year to shoot everyone on the planet twice!

"Law abiding US citizens bought on average 3,177,256 guns every 3 months in 2008.......[they] also bought 1,529,635,000 rounds of ammunition in just the month of December 2008"

That is 1.53 BILLION bullets purchased in one single month!!! Forget military supplies there are BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of bullets in ordinary households and garages...

FYI the bullets sold in that one month in 2008 could put 5 bullets in every person in the US, and that is just one month worth of sales...

To even begin to claim there would be a shortage of bullets available for personal use anytime soon is simply absurd...

So, when you state "where do they magically disappear to?" They "magically" disappear because of usage of that supply. If there's no more suppliers of the ammo, then there's no ammo ready to use for guns.

The existing supply will likely last long enough for a new supply chain to be established, if that is to be the goal of the human race...

As for your Smooth-On whatever, and suppliers and what not... Again the existing supplies will outlive me, and in time if the human race's goal is to rebuild then new suppliers and manufacturing will rise, in all likelihood before the existing stock pile of bullets is exhausted...

And if there's no ammo ready to use for guns, guns become completely useless. And if anyone happens to find a stock of ammo, that stock they find will eventually run low and then run out.

Those supplies of bullets will not be exhausted in my lifetime... And a gun is not totally useless when bullets are exhausted in fact when all the bullets are gone it simply becomes just another melee weapon...

"Civil unrest in Albania in early 1997 was accompanied by widespread looting and ransacking of arms and ammunition depots of the military, allegedly with the active involvement in some cases of officers and soldiers guarding the depots. It was initially estimated that 1,200 military storehouses were destroyed, and ‘around 652,000 weapons, 1.5 billion rounds of ammunition, 3.5 million hand grenades, 3,600 tons of explosive devices and 1 million mines’ looted."

A perfect example to show the vast numbers of existing stockpiles... 1.5 billion bullets looted, 3.5 million hand grenades and 652,000 guns!!! If I lived another 50 years I could lob 70,000 hand grenades, shoot 30 MILLION bullets a day (that is 2000 rounds a minute for 50 years) from my choice of 13,040 guns each and every day until I died!!! Before I had to worry about running out :lol
 
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Look at it this way: If a nuclear war were to happen, I'd hedge my bet that military installations would be the first to be hit, followed by government installations, followed by major cities. By the time the war was over, most major cities and military bases would probably be destroyed. That still leaves thousands of medium-sized cities with fully functioning local governments and police departments, especially in the midwest. There is also a very good chance that the military would possess top-secret heavily fortified installations such as Cheyenne Mountain and that top officials in the military and the government would survive. So I'd bet a nuclear war would officially destroy the U.S. economy and leave us open to invasion from smaller foreign countries, but I highly doubt it could cause the end of civilization.
 
He's not going to make a good bad guy if he can just hurl insults at you, y'know? :p
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You should try Fists of the North Star - its like the Road Warrior meets Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon. No need for guns when people can punch each others brain out.
 
The opening bit in Mad Max 2 said:
Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage, would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice.

There ya go. There's your answer.

You should try Fists of the North Star - its like the Road Warrior meets Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon. No need for guns when people can punch each others brain out.

Another vote for Fist of the North Star. The original cartoon, though, not the live-action movie version. And yes, they literally punch people's brains out. Among other stuff.
 
There ya go. There's your answer.



Another vote for Fist of the North Star. The original cartoon, though, not the live-action movie version. And yes, they literally punch people's brains out. Among other stuff.

Thank you for clarifying - yes, the original anime cartoon - and watch it in Japanese with English subs. The English dub removed all of the religious stuff - like the fact that the little girl is the second coming of ****** and that ****** had come once before but was killed by the Southern Cross who felt they would no longer be able to sell their "brand" of religion anymore.
 
Whoa. I guess I didn't get that far in the series. Do they reveal that in the 3rd season? Because that's the one I never finished. I always recommend watching the original language with English subs, though. (But try to find good ones...)
 
Yeah, but it would take probably 50-100 years for ammo to run out in the U.S. That is unless there are giant post apocalyptic wars or something.

You have a point, but then miss one of the key aspects of an apocalypse. People's worlds in a post apocalyptic situation becomes much smaller. You can't travel from West Coast to East Coast and scavenge stuff. You're likely isolated to whatever area you are in when the world collapses. Sure, there may be enough ammo in the US to fight a 1000 year war, but is there enough ammo in your 100 mile radius to last more than 10-15 years?
 
Aren't the bad guys all armed with crossbows in Road Warrior, basically the prototype for all post apoc films? (Minus the Humongous's revolver).
 
Yep. And Max's shotgun. Although the next film and the one before it have more firearms. I'd figure a crossbow and a longbow would be good choices. The longbow because you can knock and draw and arrow relatively quickly, but the crossbow for easier portability.
 
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