Which is stronger for large sword replicas: Resin or fibreglass?

ieneina

New Member
Hi all! Sorry this might be a nooby question but I've made replicas of Geralt's ursine swords from The Witcher 3, they are made from XPS foam then epsilon resin added on top for strength. Problem is they've so so fragile and broken so much from use even with 3 coats of resin (I use them as props for my cosplay, you can see where it snapped at the top from the convention, but they had snapped around 3 times before that and then repaired) that I just can't use them anymore. They make nice replicas for display purposes but now I'm remaking them. I was first going to go the route of moulding and casting in resin but i've read alot that it'll just be as delicate because of their length to width ratio (they're roughly 50 inches long). I can't go the dowel method because they are pretty thin and no dowels i find are thin enough. So I was thinking maybe going the fibreglass method as I've heard that's stronger? Or would I be wasting my time? I've never used it before so again, sorry if it's a silly question. If anyone has any other method that would be very strong please let me know. Uploaded photo of mine that I've now mounted to wall to show the shape and size. Thanks!

IMG_20161109_215135.jpg
 
Fiberglass is stronger than resin. It's toxic, so be sure to wear the correct protective attire - coal filter mask, gloves, etc.
 
Well fibreglass uses resin, hence the GRP standing for Glass Reinforced Plastic. If im doing something that needs strength I use carbon fibre matting instead of fibreglass matting. You'll need really good scissors but its not as nasty to use as fibreglass matting.
 
Have you considered remaking them in MDF? I know that would increase the weight considerably but perhaps the strength it would offer would be a nice trade-off. Perhaps use a core of MDF for strength and then EPS or EVA over the top.
 
Boffer swords usually have a fibreglass or carbon fibre rod running through the middle. Gun replicas are sometimes cast in resin with a wooden dowel in the middle for strength.

Did you coat the foam with urethane resin? Urethane resins intended for rotocasting are a little bit flexible and less brittle than more common types used for casting small props.
You could also use epoxy. Some varieties of slow-curing epoxy are a little bit flexible when cured, making them less brittle.
You could reinforce the epoxy by mixing in microfibre filler. (I don't know if that works with urethane). For the top layer(s), use talcum powder instead of microfibres to make it sandable.
Epoxy can also be used for fibreglass just as well as the common polyester-based "fibreglass resin". Epoxy is toxic to eat but does not have fumes. (Some varieties do smell like something died, however...). You will find epoxy and fillers among supplies for boat-building and repair.
West System is a common brand. Their "101 Mini Pack" goes a long way.

Otherwise, I would recommend making large cosplaying swords as "boffer swords" - out of soft foam with a few layers of liquid latex.
 
The biggest misunderstood thing with FRP fiber reinforced plastic, is it is the fiber that is the strength NOT THE RESIN. So, using a factory produced fiberglass shapes (Rod, strip, tube) is your best bet. These are pultruded, (the opposite of extruded). The fiber, (glass, carbon, Kevlar) are drawn out of a die (steel tool with a hole) and the resin is infused into the fiber before it leaves the die, The result is a solid mass of fibers, with just enough resin to stick them together. This is one way to utilize the most strength the fiber has to offer.

98% of the hand layups I have seen in my 30 years of movie work, would get you fired from a high end composite shop. The miss information circulated in the EFX business and the amateur prop community is disheartening.
If you make your own FRP, polyester resin or Epoxy resin, make sure you practice on a test piece (or three) and get to the point where you can use the least amount of resin, but still "wet" out your layers of fiber and leave no air bubbles. This takes practice, but even more, you have to know this is the best way to get the strongest part. If you listen to most "Hobbyists" you will be adding too much resin, and/or cut your fiber pieces too small. When wetting out the fiber, make sure to only mix enough resin to work small areas. Exothermic resins (Polyester and Epoxy) will set up faster in larger masses. So the resin in the cup will set up (harden) long before the resin in you layup. Mixing too much resin, just causes you to try and rush the process and wastes resin. Start in the middle of your part and work to the outside. This makes the fiber move around to match your mold shape, as the outer, cut, loose, fibers can freely move. Starting from the edge, sticks these ends down and the glass won't want too slide around as easily or it will want to keep "springing" up. Compound curves are pretty easy with cloth or mat. But tight 90 degree angles make things more difficult, as the glass is stiff and doesn't want to bend that sharply. (This is why glass and carbon are so strong).
This is why:

Vacuum bagging is a way to compress the fibers using atmospheric pressure the squeeze the fibers as close together as possible and a barrier layer and an absorption layer suck up the excess resin. Using carbon fiber with out vacuum bagging is like buying a $200,000 Ferrari and only driving it on a dirt road. You have spent a great deal of money for a performance advantage you will never see. High strength carbon layups are done in an autoclave., a heated pressurized oven. The compacts the fibers even more and the heat sets the resin in a controlled manner. This is where you get "stronger than steel" properties. You can't get these in a hand layup.

Fiberglass shapes are available at McMaster Carr and if you have a sailboat manufacturer or dealer, sail stays or battens, are a great source for premade FRP shapes.
 
Boffer swords usually have a fibreglass or carbon fibre rod running through the middle. Gun replicas are sometimes cast in resin with a wooden dowel in the middle for strength.

Did you coat the foam with urethane resin? Urethane resins intended for rotocasting are a little bit flexible and less brittle than more common types used for casting small props.
You could also use epoxy. Some varieties of slow-curing epoxy are a little bit flexible when cured, making them less brittle.
You could reinforce the epoxy by mixing in microfibre filler. (I don't know if that works with urethane). For the top layer(s), use talcum powder instead of microfibres to make it sandable.
Epoxy can also be used for fibreglass just as well as the common polyester-based "fibreglass resin". Epoxy is toxic to eat but does not have fumes. (Some varieties do smell like something died, however...). You will find epoxy and fillers among supplies for boat-building and repair.
West System is a common brand. Their "101 Mini Pack" goes a long way.

Otherwise, I would recommend making large cosplaying swords as "boffer swords" - out of soft foam with a few layers of liquid latex.
I used Epsilon resin, an epoxy resin by smooth-on that's especially designed to go on XPS foam, it's got a slight, very slight flex to it. I'll try re-do the soft foam again, tried with EVA foam and a rod before but didn't like how hard it was to carve and sand due to the softness.
 
Have you considered remaking them in MDF? I know that would increase the weight considerably but perhaps the strength it would offer would be a nice trade-off. Perhaps use a core of MDF for strength and then EPS or EVA over the top.
Thought about it actually, is it easy to work with? If it seems like the same amount of work I might actually just end up making them in MDF. Just worried about convention-safety though.

The biggest misunderstood thing with FRP fiber reinforced plastic, is it is the fiber that is the strength NOT THE RESIN. So, using a factory produced fiberglass shapes (Rod, strip, tube) is your best bet. These are pultruded, (the opposite of extruded). The fiber, (glass, carbon, Kevlar) are drawn out of a die (steel tool with a hole) and the resin is infused into the fiber before it leaves the die, The result is a solid mass of fibers, with just enough resin to stick them together. This is one way to utilize the most strength the fiber has to offer.

98% of the hand layups I have seen in my 30 years of movie work, would get you fired from a high end composite shop. The miss information circulated in the EFX business and the amateur prop community is disheartening.
If you make your own FRP, polyester resin or Epoxy resin, make sure you practice on a test piece (or three) and get to the point where you can use the least amount of resin, but still "wet" out your layers of fiber and leave no air bubbles. This takes practice, but even more, you have to know this is the best way to get the strongest part. If you listen to most "Hobbyists" you will be adding too much resin, and/or cut your fiber pieces too small. When wetting out the fiber, make sure to only mix enough resin to work small areas. Exothermic resins (Polyester and Epoxy) will set up faster in larger masses. So the resin in the cup will set up (harden) long before the resin in you layup. Mixing too much resin, just causes you to try and rush the process and wastes resin. Start in the middle of your part and work to the outside. This makes the fiber move around to match your mold shape, as the outer, cut, loose, fibers can freely move. Starting from the edge, sticks these ends down and the glass won't want too slide around as easily or it will want to keep "springing" up. Compound curves are pretty easy with cloth or mat. But tight 90 degree angles make things more difficult, as the glass is stiff and doesn't want to bend that sharply. (This is why glass and carbon are so strong).
This is why:

Vacuum bagging is a way to compress the fibers using atmospheric pressure the squeeze the fibers as close together as possible and a barrier layer and an absorption layer suck up the excess resin. Using carbon fiber with out vacuum bagging is like buying a $200,000 Ferrari and only driving it on a dirt road. You have spent a great deal of money for a performance advantage you will never see. High strength carbon layups are done in an autoclave., a heated pressurized oven. The compacts the fibers even more and the heat sets the resin in a controlled manner. This is where you get "stronger than steel" properties. You can't get these in a hand layup.
Fiberglass shapes are available at McMaster Carr and if you have a sailboat manufacturer or dealer, sail stays or battens, are a great source for premade FRP shapes.
Thank you for the advice! It's true, there isn't alot of good information out there on it, so this helps a great bunch.
 
ieneina,
If you plan on swinging these swords at all, I would not used MDF. Medium Density Fiberboard is not very strong. If wood was to be considered, plywood would be a much better choice, as it has long fibers and has some flex. Fiber glass strip or rod would be a much better choice. laying your foam over the FRP and then coating the exterior with a rubber/ elastomer would be the best, most durable way. McMaster Carr has the following:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#8543k47/=150awxh
[h=3]Structural Fiberglass Rod[/h]
[h=3]5/16" Diameter, 5' Length[/h]
for $3.91 each.
 
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