What sabers will MR do in CE?

[tripoli]

Thats where the demand question comes to a head. On top of that, you have to look at the economy and how it will affect the purchasing dollar. That is not looking too well right now and it has had an impact in toy companies and has been noted as such in that industry as well other such collectors forums. Between those two, I am betting its a mistake that will be played out.

 

[eFXBarry]

I see the CE line as an attempt by MR to offer more options to the fans.

There are plenty of people out there who can't afford the $369 of the LE, let alone the higher dollar values of the Elite series. Do you tell those guys, sorry bub, but you can't have a prop replica?

Do Porsche or Aston Martin stick with a limited high end product line? Or do they wisely provide "entry level" products to entice in new customers who can't afford a 911 or a DB9 but who can get a Boxster or a baby Aston V8 and who may later want to trade up?

The CE will appeal to people who consider price first and foremost when buying. And as we've seen before with the authorized retailers, they'll be some who will discount the MSRP. People will shop around for the best deals.

For those who are less price sensitive and who perhaps use continuity as their purchasing motivator - they are "collectors" after all - they retain the option of buying the LE version. I don't see how giving customers a choice is ever a bad thing in business.

Of course people can bemoan the price points, people always will. If the CE's been announced at $20 you can bet someone would have complained it wasn't $15. But the CE's may end up benefiting the LE's.

Folks have been complaining for a while that secondary market prices have been falling, and yet some of those very same folks boast that they bought their LE's for 30% or more below the list price. Seems people want to buy these pieces for the least amount of money yet expect the maximum amount of return when they decide to sell... Having the LE's available from one source and at one controlled price should surely help increase their secondary value, no?

It seems MR have taken the decision to introduce a new line to help meet market demand. If it's there, the line will florish. If it's not, end of story.

My 2¢.

Barry

 

[tripoli]

There is definately the demand for a marketable Mercedes at a Honda price, I am not all that sure they are going to want to pay that Honda price for an Escort though.

On top of that, your looking at an economy that is going to take possibley take a severe hit this year with gas prices looking to possibley double by years end. If that happens, the first cut in personal budgets made by consumers in in entertainment and accessories. Again, given the factors, I just don't see people paying the Honda price for the escort, especially if the economy takes the predicted turn.
Hope I am wrong, but I have an already strong feeling on the ce price and would not want to take a chance with a roll of the economies dice to back that up either way.

And frankly, the bang for the buck, comparing what goes into this versus an FX is going to through quite a few collectors as well. I surf around a lot on several industry colector boards and the vibes are not that good. I am going on what I have picked up elsewhere around the net though and that is not a solid answer as to what happens in the future. But if I had to bet on it Barry, it would not be in favor of the plan in action now.

 

[vaderfanforever]

Still, I'm not going to complain if a company gives me an affordable product. (199 is right for an LE IMO, too much for the CE).

Guys, I just went to the MR site. This is what it says about the CE saber:

Qui-Gon Jinn The Phantom Menace Lightsaber Collectors Edition

Manufactured with the same attention to detail and quality you have come to expect from Master Replicas, the CEs are made from slightly different materials so they can be offered at a more affordable price point. Collectors Editions are currently available through Master Replicas retail partners.

This CE version of Qui-Gon's weapon offers the same outstanding attention to detail as its Limited Edition counterpart but features:

-Unlimited edition
-Machined aluminum sleeve
-Cast resin body and metal details
-New style display stand
-Certificate of authenticity
-Same quality workmanship as the LE
-Same great Customer Service support as our Limited and Studio Scale Editions

With price points to suit every pocket, it's never been easier to own a stunning Star Wars prop replica. So force yourself and snag one while they last.

The Qui Gon Collectors Edition MSRP is $199 and all interested collectors should contact their favorite Master Replicas Authorized Retailer to place an order

$199 for an UNLIMITED NUMBER resin lightsaber? That is crazy. To me, this is reaching on the part of MR. Who are they trying to kid here? It is a piece of resin. I'm sorry, but I just don't think it is worth that much.

VFF

 

[eFXBarry]

Trip,

I'm not quite sure what point you are making here. You're predicting a possible downturn in the economy with less personal expenditure on entertainment and accessories and yet seem adverse that MR are introducing a cheaper line of collectibles?

The fact is the prop collecting market has been expanding at a heck of a rate for quite some time. There are a lot a companies manufacturing a slew of products competing for limited collectible dollars. And make no mistake, there is no such thing as a Ford or Honda in the replica prop market, all of the companies involved remain niche players. Has the market reached saturation point? Pallisades have just gone to the wall... Or is success still attainable by having the right product at the right price? Time will tell.

A Boxster is still a Porsche. And Boxster owners are probably proud of that fact. A CE is still a quality MR replica prop, while it might not be a 911. I'd argue that a range of product and consumer choice allows a company to remain flexible, especially in uncertain economic times.

Barry

 

[Megatron]

I see it like this

CE = stunt version

LE=HERO version

but I do like the stand they have pictured for the CE..I could see a nice bell jar to cap it off.

 

[OldKen]

was quigons hero all metal in the movie???

i thought i remember it being mostly resin...

and the CE has a machined aluminum shaft so the metal looking part WILL be metal, only the black part and knobs are resin...

i was hoping it would be a little cheaper, but i still might pick one of these up, add an aluminum anodized knob and... well you got yourself a pretty good saber. IMHO

 

[tripoli]

First off Barry, as posted by Vaderfanforever, 199 for the resin piece is over priced. I am seeing that posted a lot at many boards. You can say its suggested retail but I am seeing the current sabers LE's selling at 240 right now. If dealers are willing to go that low for current LE's, what do you expect they are going to have to do for the resins? Your going to have to have pretty large margins fo rthe distributors on the CE's and allow those deep discounts to be advertised, because 200 is not going to cut it for a resin saber.

AND IF...

the economy does take a down turn, this line will have to crash down on prices to make it. And while there are more companies coming up in this market, its a dog eat dog market, the pie is definately not getting bigger. To introduce a line that pushes the limits of consumer cash availability, absolutely, I think MR has miscalculated on the suggested retail price of this.

Bottom line, when you see what MR is selling in the FX line at that price, its going to be a hard sell for an inert hunk of resin with metal fittings.
Given the fact thats going to piss off a few collectors, the hard core are mad already about the new unlimited line, I truly think someone at MR is over estimating the demand on the CE's selling at that price.

 

[OldKen]

Originally posted by tripoli@Feb 3 2006, 08:28 PM
First off Barry, as posted by Vaderfanforever,  199 for the resin piece is over priced.  I am seeing that posted a lot at many boards. You can say its suggested retail but I am seeing the current sabers LE's selling at 240 right now. If dealers are willing to go that low for current LE's, what do you expect they are going to have to do for the resins?  Your going to have to have pretty large margins fo rthe distributors on the CE's and allow those deep discounts to be advertised, because 200 is not going to cut it for a resin saber.

AND IF...

the economy does take a down turn, this line will have to crash down on prices to make it.  And while there are more companies coming up in this market, its a dog eat dog market, the pie is definately not getting bigger.  To introduce a line that pushes the limits of consumer cash availability, absolutely, I think MR has miscalculated on the suggested retail price of this.

Bottom line, when you see what MR is selling in the FX line at that price, its going to be a hard sell for an inert hunk of resin with metal fittings. 
Given the fact thats going to piss off a few collectors, the hard core are mad already about the new unlimited line,  I truly think someone at MR is over estimating the demand on the CE's selling at that price.

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so certain are you, then why worry?

you have created a virtual paradox, you are arguing with yourself.

you say basically they are crap and wont sell cause they obviously arent worth it, then you are worried it will devalue the LEs and throw the market in a tailspin... :unsure

which is it?

and once again the main body appears to be metal, its the black handgrip and fitttings that are resin, and if you could get these things for near 100 from a retailer then get some aluminum bits and bobs from someone like roman... id say youve got a pretty neat peice that while is cool, is nowhere near the same thing as the LE and will have little to no effect on the market for the LEs.

just my .02

 

[eFXBarry]

Trip,

You can bemoan the MSRP all you like. You may be right and you may be wrong as regards to how sales will fare. You and I can debate the economics of prop manufacturing till the cows come home and it won't make a baldy bit of difference since neither of us are running MR.

The fact remains that MR have given consumers more choice -- CE, LE, SE, or EE. If you don't like these choices that's all well and good. Vote with your pocket book. However please don't make the mistake of comparing the CE's to FX's.

FX's sell in considerably larger numbers than ANY replica prop ever will cause they light up nice and shiney, make noise, and have a coolness factor that appeals to a market beyond the hard-core fan. No static prop replica will ever approach FX sales numbers. The volume of FX's allows MR to amortize their development and production costs over a large run and keep the per unit cost down. The market for static replica props is small. Catering to small production runs is expensive, even in resin. That has to be reflected in the retail price or the manufacturing company will go out of business.

People have short memories and forget what bootleg prices were like on replicas before we had companies like MR and Sideshow around. How many resin sabers did you see here for $70 with flashlines, air bubbles and no paint. I recall lots of them.

Barry

 

[Megatron]

you can try to read into it all you want but as the film maker said "people vote with there wallets"
As the FX are the fleet item of MR so I see the CE coming into it also. Being offered at retail shops around the world. A store offering a FX is only a 10min drive from my house.

 

[Cookiee Monsta]

Originally posted by Barry@Feb 4 2006, 12:57 PM
People have short memories and forget what bootleg prices were like on replicas before we had companies like MR and Sideshow around. How many resin sabers did you see here for $70 with flashlines, air bubbles and no paint. I recall lots of them.

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Lets hope the QC on these Sabers don't experience the same issues the current helmets have in overlooked problems.

 

[tripoli]

Hopefully Barry, I am wrong on it.
I don't think so though.

I hate seeing MR having the problems it does because I really do like the company, I hate seeing the mistakes that are being made because it just should not happen. I hate to see a good company go sliding down like it has lately.

MR makes some of the best replicas ever, but they are inconsistant an sometimes don't look from the customers view point.

But MR has not really been listening to the customers it seems lately. Turned a blind eye in public relations, quality control, product design. Sorry to see things having to hit so hard that it hurts the companies bottom line before they open their eyes or maybe listen a bit more. Seems to me they are more interested in growth and profit lately and have lost thier vision of what they should be concentrating on... the product and the customers they sell to. If done right, everything else will fall into place.

I can see clearly with my vision, the question is can those at MR do so...

 

[Megatron]

Originally posted by tripoli@Feb 3 2006, 09:20 PM
Hopefully Barry, I am wrong on it.
I don't think so though.

I hate seeing MR having the problems it does because I really do like the company, I hate seeing the mistakes that are being made because it just should not happen.  I hate to see a good company go sliding down like it has lately.

MR makes some of the best replicas ever, but they are inconsistant an sometimes don't look from the customers view point. 

But MR has not really been listening to the customers it seems lately.  Turned a blind eye in public relations, quality control,  product design.  Sorry to see things having to hit so hard that it hurts the companies bottom line before they open their eyes or maybe listen a bit more. Seems to me they are more interested in growth and profit lately and have lost thier vision of what they should be concentrating on... the product and the customers they sell to.  If done right, everything else will fall into place.

I can see clearly with my vision, the question is can those at MR do so...

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sliding down? Ummm unlike other companies they have take control of the "issues" before they even reached industry standers for problems. I don't believe you understand how a large company works. The founders of MR are not your normal company profile. These guys have been there and done that. If anything they are setting new standers for others to measure up to. They have corrected the problems in a very timely manner and are even eating the cost to make sure that there customers are happy with what the thought they should be getting. Do you know of any other company that will spend the time and money to place a customer rep on a web board not even owned by them? (We even had a preview of the notice to collectors a day before here on the board about the Vader Helmets)

What we see coming out now and hear about coming out later this year was start years ago, not just off the top of there heads last month. The customer base of this board and other like is a very small percent of the whole.

What your vision is- Will be your vision.

I have more respect for MR now because how they are dealing with the QC problems they had. I got my Vader, yes it had some scuffing but that's being correct. The bags are being replace for ALL the Vader Helmets. They are even offering trades for costumers that bought from no MR sellers.

People are acting just like the News Media...scream loud about the negitive but not even saying anything about what is being done to correct issues and what good things are happing.

Is the glass half empty or is it half full?

Enjoy the hobby for what it is and the reason we all started it.
In the end its just stuff that collects dust.

"He who dies with the most toys wins."- Not me. It;s the memories that count.

 

[Dagobah Don]

In the end its just stuff that collects dust.

[/quote]

YES. So true. Come on, these things are practically worthless. I sometimes hate that I even spend money on them... :lol :angel

 

[tripoli]

I run a large company, yes absolutely I know whats involved.
I also have watched MR from the very start of inception to now. As noted they make some great products (some of the best), but as also noted from what I have seen first hand and watched they have slipped whether or not you want to realize it. And also I think they are making a mistake overpricing a product for which they hope will expand out their new line greatly. Time will tell.
I am not criticizing MR just to attack them, but to try to make them understand they are slipping. Four of my last order have been screwed up in some way lately.
When the rocketeer helmet came out, the MR pr person got so fustrated they said you don't have to buy it. On the vader helmet thread they admitted they sent it out before the paint cured, knew it and then sent it out with flawed packing hoping it would just not get damaged. Thats great public relations?
The Narnia sword display design has no place designed to hang the MR plaque on. There have been the same complaints for the rocketeer helment where the designed base had no consideration for the plaque as well. Thats well thought out design? Great quality control?

Now you can just say ignore things like this, or they can take a hard look at it and say, hey we screwed up and we need to really get it in our heads we need to focus on what we do, not why.
Again, if you work hard at making the product right, servicing the customer, the bottom line will improve because you create a loyal strong customer base. If you assume you can continue to get away with little mistakes, eventually they add up to big ones that bite you.

I want the greatest prop avaiable out there and I have been a pretty good customer of MR's. I have several pre-orders in right now with them. But if I continue to get the same service and poor product I have received lately, yep, going to be vocal about it. And as noted above, there are plenty of other manufacturers in the industry starting up. Plenty of other places for my money to go to. But I would rather spend it on more great items from MR than somewhere else. Unless they continue to do as I am seeing and experiencing it first hand lately. I am not the only one, look at the threads on the last few products.
Look at threads on other boards. Listen to what the customers are saying, if there are enough satying it its not one odd ball person or board. If you are seeing it that much, you need to admit there is an issues that need to be looked at and improve upon it.

From the post above, tell me, who has the clearer vision.

 

[Megatron]

I still think you jump the gun..
Many problems do take time to fix and if they don't know about all the problems they can't be fix. Some of them are big issues and that means it might take more time but at least they are doing. What do you think is a reasonible time line then?
I hear more frustration then logic. It's always easy to say how to run things but unless you know ever fact of what, who and why you can not really armchair quaterback an easy solution. There are many layers to such easy problems.

But you have not even stated that they are doing something about it, which they are.

Give them the faith, the same faith you do when you pre-order. In time we will see what has happen to the vision. It's a lot better then the past.

 

[elwood49]

I also think the CE line is a horrible idea. I don't know what MR's wholesale pricing schemes are, but I know that Sideshow and most other companies use 60% of the retail as their wholesale price.

This means that dealers will pay $120 wholesale for the CE's plus they will have to pay to have them shipped to them. In order for the dealers to make any profit, they will need to sell these at $150-$160+ shipping.

Considering that I just got my Sidious LE from FAO Schwarz for $200 + shipping, the CE line seems like a horrendous idea.

Why would the new collector pay $160 for a CE when they can get the Ep. III LE's for around $200? I realize that many people aren't price savvy (which explains a lot of the Ebay prices), but this is ridiculous. I would like for MR to make money on this so they can keep making the detailed props that the high-end collectors like us want, but forgive me if I crack a smile when I see these things hitting rock bottom prices.

 

[Sporak]

Guys, comparing the CE's with the FX line isn't the same...
Remember, while the FX's are very cool (I have several) they're oversized and could be considered toys...

While the CE line appears to be scaled correctly and presented as a showcase prop.Ok, it's not all metal...but I believe theres enough metal there to warrant the price.

I've bought many resin kits (unfinished) for the same price. Then you have to clean them up, paint and figure out how to create a metallic effect.

These are done and ready to display.
I tell ya, I would have bought a lot more sabers from MR if they had been offered in this version. (Close to 400.00 for the status quo is just too much)
The price is ok...and as stated before...I'm sure some retailers will set up some good prices for us.

 

[ArtistTheGeek]

Originally posted by Gigatron@Feb 3 2006, 09:04 PM
I totally agree, if you have the money, go out and buy the coolest thing you can afford BUT, don't get whiney because I have something that LOOKS like yours.  Don't deny someone the pleasure of having something nice just because it cost less than yours.

That's like Lamborghini owners having a hissy fit because the guy with the pontiac fiero put a lambo body kit on his car.  Real Lambo owners will know the difference and that's what matters.  When it comes time to sell, the guy with fiero and kit is not going to get the same money that the guy with the real car will get.

-Fred

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....perfectly said my friend.