What is recasting, really??
- Thread starter Moviefreak
- Start date
exoray
Master Member
Re: Please close MODS. Thanks
Truth is there is no black and white rule the rules slides all over the place depending on the member doing the run and/or the item in question... Trying to figure it out in a black and white context simply will never work...
Examples to name a few of the more popular ones that end up in the gray wish wash...
Vader Helmets
Boba Helmets
Biker Scout Helmets
Han in Carbonite
Just about any Icon's props
Convenience and desire for the above swag seems to purchase a blind eye...
Truth is there is no black and white rule the rules slides all over the place depending on the member doing the run and/or the item in question... Trying to figure it out in a black and white context simply will never work...
Examples to name a few of the more popular ones that end up in the gray wish wash...
Vader Helmets
Boba Helmets
Biker Scout Helmets
Han in Carbonite
Just about any Icon's props
Convenience and desire for the above swag seems to purchase a blind eye...
TMP
Sr Member
Re: Please close MODS. Thanks
So what is the moderators stance on this?
How does this count for pepakura? I can se this rule work with sculpting a pice from the bottom, but i se the dificulty with the rule in consideration with pepakura or 3D scanns. We are on revolotion of new methods and we need to do as Clint Eastwood said in one of his movies.:"Improvice and addapt"
A scenario is that lets say someone got hold of a members prop on this board. This person took the peice and made a 3D scan for this and put it in a 3D printer and started sell it of. Or the same person takes it from an original prop.
Another scenario is that a 3D modelelar linage from someone original work and offers free files and give permission of free usage to all out there.
A Original prop is 3D rendered and copied into a CNC machined prop.
And we seem to be ok with modifying orginal props to then offer it. ... Wait!??.. Do we??.. In some cases in others we dont?
Another thing is restoration of original screen used props. This is ok in some cases, in others we dont. Have we not seen arguments about this a thousands times in regards star wars suits..
Sculptural work has been the method in long time. That has been the easiet to pinpoint. Either you sculted it by hand from bottom and up. And can show to reffrence photos. Now with these new tecnologies these boundries have been moved. The lines erased...
How do we provide the "comunity good moral rules" for new tecniques up against the old tecniques.
NO RULES?....
There is no reffrence of any guidelines in regards of this new tecnology.
Its like we have the air full of planes but we have yet adopted any rules to controll the sky. We got flies wanting to go from one direction to the other as fast as possible and we se continusly crashes along the way and questions.
I ask the moderators to look at these issues and se if they can update the guidelines to this new era we live in. We are in this comunity because we all share same intrest. Without these tallented members of variouse trades, this board would not exisit. However if lack of guidelines there will be Texas shooting and allot of arguing of, what, if, how, why.... And so on.
So what is the moderators stance on this?
How does this count for pepakura? I can se this rule work with sculpting a pice from the bottom, but i se the dificulty with the rule in consideration with pepakura or 3D scanns. We are on revolotion of new methods and we need to do as Clint Eastwood said in one of his movies.:"Improvice and addapt"
A scenario is that lets say someone got hold of a members prop on this board. This person took the peice and made a 3D scan for this and put it in a 3D printer and started sell it of. Or the same person takes it from an original prop.
Another scenario is that a 3D modelelar linage from someone original work and offers free files and give permission of free usage to all out there.
A Original prop is 3D rendered and copied into a CNC machined prop.
And we seem to be ok with modifying orginal props to then offer it. ... Wait!??.. Do we??.. In some cases in others we dont?
Another thing is restoration of original screen used props. This is ok in some cases, in others we dont. Have we not seen arguments about this a thousands times in regards star wars suits..
Sculptural work has been the method in long time. That has been the easiet to pinpoint. Either you sculted it by hand from bottom and up. And can show to reffrence photos. Now with these new tecnologies these boundries have been moved. The lines erased...
How do we provide the "comunity good moral rules" for new tecniques up against the old tecniques.
NO RULES?....
There is no reffrence of any guidelines in regards of this new tecnology.
Its like we have the air full of planes but we have yet adopted any rules to controll the sky. We got flies wanting to go from one direction to the other as fast as possible and we se continusly crashes along the way and questions.
I ask the moderators to look at these issues and se if they can update the guidelines to this new era we live in. We are in this comunity because we all share same intrest. Without these tallented members of variouse trades, this board would not exisit. However if lack of guidelines there will be Texas shooting and allot of arguing of, what, if, how, why.... And so on.
Last edited:
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: So what is recasting?
As long as there are no set rules, this is the distinctions I follow:
The cast of screen used item falls under the protection of no recasting another person's offering. If you want to compete with that guy, don't recast his ****. Go buy an original piece and spend the money, time and effort to copying that and risk damaging and devaluing it.
As long as there are no set rules, this is the distinctions I follow:
The cast of screen used item falls under the protection of no recasting another person's offering. If you want to compete with that guy, don't recast his ****. Go buy an original piece and spend the money, time and effort to copying that and risk damaging and devaluing it.
Tan Djarka
Sr Member
Re: What is recasting?
Yes, this topic again. And again, and again, and again... Until it's settled. But I suspect it never will be, because there are no hard and fast rules as to what is acceptable. Sure, there's the general sense that you shouldn't make copies of member's work or that of recognised artists (who "contribute" to the community).
The rest is grey area. Or it's ALL grey area. It's hard to say.
I'm beginning to wonder: Is the problem that someone's copied your work? Or is that there's almost nothing you can do about it when it happens, because it would put you under far greater scrutiny from the authorities than the person that "stole" from you?
And the argument that this communtiy wouldn't exist without the artists that produce unlicensed replicas... Really? So film and prop enthusiasts wouldn't exist without the theft of intellectual property? That's kind of difficult to believe.
Yes, this topic again. And again, and again, and again... Until it's settled. But I suspect it never will be, because there are no hard and fast rules as to what is acceptable. Sure, there's the general sense that you shouldn't make copies of member's work or that of recognised artists (who "contribute" to the community).
The rest is grey area. Or it's ALL grey area. It's hard to say.
I'm beginning to wonder: Is the problem that someone's copied your work? Or is that there's almost nothing you can do about it when it happens, because it would put you under far greater scrutiny from the authorities than the person that "stole" from you?
And the argument that this communtiy wouldn't exist without the artists that produce unlicensed replicas... Really? So film and prop enthusiasts wouldn't exist without the theft of intellectual property? That's kind of difficult to believe.
Tan Djarka
Sr Member
Re: So what is recasting?
I've always had the sense that the position on recasting was very, very shakey, but this finally illustrates perfectly where the conflict lies.
Aquiring a production made or screen used prop and reproducing/recasting it is okay? That implies that posession of that item gives you full rights to reproduce it, regardless of who owns the intellectual rights.
But then "fan made" props can not be reproduced/recast because...? The same "possesion equals rights" scenario should still apply, right?
Basically, the rule is: "You can steal from whomever you wish, so long as it isn't me." The only terms in question are what "stealing" actually is and who constitutes "me".
It's all perfectly clear. Or not.
I've always had the sense that the position on recasting was very, very shakey, but this finally illustrates perfectly where the conflict lies.
Aquiring a production made or screen used prop and reproducing/recasting it is okay? That implies that posession of that item gives you full rights to reproduce it, regardless of who owns the intellectual rights.
But then "fan made" props can not be reproduced/recast because...? The same "possesion equals rights" scenario should still apply, right?
Basically, the rule is: "You can steal from whomever you wish, so long as it isn't me." The only terms in question are what "stealing" actually is and who constitutes "me".
It's all perfectly clear. Or not.
Re: So what is recasting?
This is Weird. Yesterday, I editted this title to be removed. PLease, MODS... remove this.
I had a question, it was not easily answered, and I found numerous threads about this, so we don not need to continue the discussion.
This is Weird. Yesterday, I editted this title to be removed. PLease, MODS... remove this.
I had a question, it was not easily answered, and I found numerous threads about this, so we don not need to continue the discussion.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: So what is recasting?
Either you as a community follow the law 100% or you set up allowances to break the law to a certain degree. Most of the hobby works on the "breaking the law" side. And it is up to community to find just how much is tolerated, because a lot will bring the wrath of the studios, blatant recasting will shut sculptors, scratchbuilders and producers of cast from screen used down, because why should they bother if there is no protection in the community. If you can protect sculptors and scratchbuilders, who are breaking the law by selling casts of their work, then why not also cast from screen used producers?
You think it's fair that someone with a screen used prop deciding to offer casts from it to the community should just be butt ****ed by the community, because... oh wait... he's just a recaster, so it's okay for me to recast him. Yup, I can see how that's beneficial for the community. Hell, 90% of the hobby would be dead if the law was followed 100%. So where do you draw the line?
It's perfectly clear if you want it to be. Without cast from screen used we would not have accurate stormtrooper armor or Vader helmets or any of the other accurate things, someone like me and many others want. Sure, we could have settled for Don Post helmets or the fan sculpted FX stormtrooper armor. Maybe we should. The fan sculpted FX is also illegal armor... so... with your logic of black and white... there would be NO stormtrooper armor available.
Either you as a community follow the law 100% or you set up allowances to break the law to a certain degree. Most of the hobby works on the "breaking the law" side. And it is up to community to find just how much is tolerated, because a lot will bring the wrath of the studios, blatant recasting will shut sculptors, scratchbuilders and producers of cast from screen used down, because why should they bother if there is no protection in the community. If you can protect sculptors and scratchbuilders, who are breaking the law by selling casts of their work, then why not also cast from screen used producers?
You think it's fair that someone with a screen used prop deciding to offer casts from it to the community should just be butt ****ed by the community, because... oh wait... he's just a recaster, so it's okay for me to recast him. Yup, I can see how that's beneficial for the community. Hell, 90% of the hobby would be dead if the law was followed 100%. So where do you draw the line?
It was replied to by staff:
Re: So what is recasting?
Oh.... I missed that one.
I just don' want to see everyone get heated over this topic again. I feel I was slightly in the wrong bringing it up again.
Oh.... I missed that one.
I just don' want to see everyone get heated over this topic again. I feel I was slightly in the wrong bringing it up again.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Oh ****... what did you do?
No seriously... are we grown men or grown babies? I know what I am, what are you?
Carry on...
No seriously... are we grown men or grown babies? I know what I am, what are you?
Carry on...
It seems to me that if someone here re creates something like Iron man armor or anything else, And it Gets re cast its not ok.. But say someone gets a hold of J2 pistol from the MIB production its suddenly ok to still "Re Cast" it.. Now Ricks props made them for the production so he doesn't own the rights but you are still re casting his work!! So Everyone its only a bad thing to re cast is if your screwing over an individual, if its a production go ahead! That's what you will hear on the RPF from the guys who are producing "Helmets and Armor re created/ Re casted from so called original parts" You guys need to get your priorities in line. Your still re casting armor/helmets from Star Wars I don't care what you say. I don't care if nothing would exist if it wasn't done but you have all suddenly made it ok. It is BLACK and WHITE. If you did not create "It", Or you do not have permission to re create and sell "It" Your Re Casting plane and simple. So stop trying to justify what your doing .
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Yup, okay to screw over the production. They are not making and selling props to the public and if they feel they are getting hurt, they'll send out a C&D and the fan-producer will stop making that item.
Do you think recasters of that fan-producer's casts will? No, they'll just continue crapping out their recasts and snub their nose at everybody while doing it, because they know no one can really touch them without bringing attention to themselves in the process.
Do you think recasters of that fan-producer's casts will? No, they'll just continue crapping out their recasts and snub their nose at everybody while doing it, because they know no one can really touch them without bringing attention to themselves in the process.
TMP
Sr Member
Dear RPF Staff, can the Staff please take some time together to look into the existing guidelines and se if there could be made new updated guidelines that takes in consideration these new mediums of making props.
- 3D Files guidelines for Printing, CNC & Pepakura
- 3D Printing guidelines
- Pepakura guidelines
- Guidelines on Modifying existing licenced prop or fanmade prop for personal use. When does it become recast, if modifying fellow members peice sould it be requested approval.
- Guidelines on restoring original screen used props and when or if it is ok to offer for sale? The peice beeing over X years old? Or ?
- Updated the termenology and terms of new mediums, example dont confuse word SCULPTING with PEPAKURA. And what do you call it when you are modifying and do the final finish on the pepakura.. Any word that is apropraite to use.
themanwoaname
Sr Member
what if someone bought an ironman armor, casts another for his buddy, and just charges him for the materials and labor making it? another variable is they both could have gone in on half for one armor, with intent of just making an extra so both of them have their own.
keep that in mind, and what if that friend decided they couldnt keep the costume?
whats the deal? is a guy looking out for a close friend wrong? its not like he made an army of ironman armors. and the friend that had to sell his beloved armor, is he wrong because he needed to eat and pay his mortgage?
and who's going to say "hey you cant do that!" and expect either of them to listen? i understand you all are 100% against recasting in some form, but when will some one understand that if someone purchases something with their own money, they're going to spend it how they see fit, and do whatever they choose with the purchase.
you cant physically stand in the middle of someone wanting to spend their money on something they want, and halt them from doing what they want with their purchase.
example, bob from hoboken new to costume/prop stuff that wants an ironman armor but doesnt want to spend 3 grand on one, sees some guy is offering them for 600 bucks and all he has to do is paint it. you all may know the buyer is purchasing from a recaster, but he doesnt. he has his armor and he's happy. maybe one day he finds out his armor was recast, what difference would it make? he has what he wanted and he's happy with it. i bought a blade runner resin cast at megacon from this kit dealer there. i dont care if they're a recaster or not, i wanted a reasonably priced blade runner gun, now i have one, and im happy with it.
this is one reason why i dont clearly see much of the recaster problem other than finger pointing.
keep that in mind, and what if that friend decided they couldnt keep the costume?
whats the deal? is a guy looking out for a close friend wrong? its not like he made an army of ironman armors. and the friend that had to sell his beloved armor, is he wrong because he needed to eat and pay his mortgage?
and who's going to say "hey you cant do that!" and expect either of them to listen? i understand you all are 100% against recasting in some form, but when will some one understand that if someone purchases something with their own money, they're going to spend it how they see fit, and do whatever they choose with the purchase.
you cant physically stand in the middle of someone wanting to spend their money on something they want, and halt them from doing what they want with their purchase.
example, bob from hoboken new to costume/prop stuff that wants an ironman armor but doesnt want to spend 3 grand on one, sees some guy is offering them for 600 bucks and all he has to do is paint it. you all may know the buyer is purchasing from a recaster, but he doesnt. he has his armor and he's happy. maybe one day he finds out his armor was recast, what difference would it make? he has what he wanted and he's happy with it. i bought a blade runner resin cast at megacon from this kit dealer there. i dont care if they're a recaster or not, i wanted a reasonably priced blade runner gun, now i have one, and im happy with it.
this is one reason why i dont clearly see much of the recaster problem other than finger pointing.
propologist
Sr Member
It's always going to me a issue for the several thousand prop fans but it's fairly simple for the non-prop fan.
For instance , if a fan just went to see Iron Man 2 and wanted to buy am iron Man helmet, they would go to ebay and look. Most people will look at price first and quality second ( it's reverse here on this site) , so that recast of a Halo or IM helmet at 99.99 or whatever will always get purchased over a helmet that is limited or in the nose bleed section of price ( like all the MR , icons etc items are)
It's just economics . The general public doesn't care that there is a RPF or a Prop site against recasters .
As for me I would like to get a Bust or iron man for my collection, Not to wear or anything else. Just a 1:1 bust for myself because I have been a iron man fan since the 70's .Back when most of you could careless about him . I will most likely make one in pep because for me it's economical.
I could careless is it's limited edition to a member or it's signed by someone that only made 10 of them . I wouldn't knowingly buy a recast but I'm also not going to pay someone 1500.00 for a metal one just to tell everyone " I have a real metal Iron man suit" whoppie...
For instance , if a fan just went to see Iron Man 2 and wanted to buy am iron Man helmet, they would go to ebay and look. Most people will look at price first and quality second ( it's reverse here on this site) , so that recast of a Halo or IM helmet at 99.99 or whatever will always get purchased over a helmet that is limited or in the nose bleed section of price ( like all the MR , icons etc items are)
It's just economics . The general public doesn't care that there is a RPF or a Prop site against recasters .
As for me I would like to get a Bust or iron man for my collection, Not to wear or anything else. Just a 1:1 bust for myself because I have been a iron man fan since the 70's .Back when most of you could careless about him . I will most likely make one in pep because for me it's economical.
I could careless is it's limited edition to a member or it's signed by someone that only made 10 of them . I wouldn't knowingly buy a recast but I'm also not going to pay someone 1500.00 for a metal one just to tell everyone " I have a real metal Iron man suit" whoppie...
well tmp .allow me to retort.........sculpting with bondo and pep files is not sculpting??
here is a my point.
here is the start of my odst helmet.....crappy put together pep file.
here is the finished product... bondo and palstic.
how is that not sculpting...?
here is a my point.
here is the start of my odst helmet.....crappy put together pep file.
here is the finished product... bondo and palstic.
how is that not sculpting...?
