What is recasting, really??

[TOSPHASER]

Re: So what is recasting?

Re: request by OP to close... I dont think that is at all appropriate to close when so many people have contributed information to this thread that others may find useful. If the thread were to get out of hand, I will consider closing.

Thanks......I think it is going quite well and I find it interesting what people feel on this subject.....it has been brought up before but turns into a fight!! flames shooting everywhere:lol lets keep it civil and discuss!! :thumbsup

 

[Too Much Garlic]

this is one reason why i dont clearly see much of the recaster problem other than finger pointing. i bought a blade runner resin cast at megacon from this kit dealer there. i dont care if they're a recaster or not, i wanted a reasonably priced blade runner gun.

And see... that's why high end cast from screen used is not available to the public.

If you want a track of music, do you have your friend rip it for you or do you go out and buy the album yourself?

I understand the desire to get things cheap. Many people want to drive Porsche when they can only afford a Skoda.

In this community, the good stuff costs money... but because of recasters it costs even more and is more limited, because why should any producer risk to be undercut by their own product recast by someone else, who doesn't care about the time, effort or money it took to make the original.

 

[propologist]

what if someone bought an ironman armor, casts another for his buddy, and just charges him for the materials and labor making it? another variable is they both could have gone in on half for one armor, with intent of just making an extra so both of them have their own.

keep that in mind, and what if that friend decided they couldnt keep the costume?

whats the deal? is a guy looking out for a close friend wrong? its not like he made an army of ironman armors. and the friend that had to sell his beloved armor, is he wrong because he needed to eat and pay his mortgage?

and who's going to say "hey you cant do that!" and expect either of them to listen? i understand you all are 100% against recasting in some form, but when will some one understand that if someone purchases something with their own money, they're going to spend it how they see fit, and do whatever they choose with the purchase.

you cant physically stand in the middle of someone wanting to spend their money on something they want, and halt them from doing what they want with their purchase.

example, bob from hoboken new to costume/prop stuff that wants an ironman armor but doesnt want to spend 3 grand on one, sees some guy is offering them for 600 bucks and all he has to do is paint it. you all may know the buyer is purchasing from a recaster, but he doesnt. he has his armor and he's happy. maybe one day he finds out his armor was recast, what difference would it make? he has what he wanted and he's happy with it.

this is one reason why i dont clearly see much of the recaster problem other than finger pointing. i bought a blade runner resin cast at megacon from this kit dealer there. i dont care if they're a recaster or not, i wanted a reasonably priced blade runner gun.

remember your really only talking about rules that are set in " this world" , not the world at large , who mainly buys stuff. I generally think many members recast but are man enough to put it out on the boards due to business sales or just general inclusion within this world.

 

[TOSPHASER]

well tmp .allow me to retort.........sculpting with bondo and pep files is not sculpting??


here is a my point.

here is the start of my odst helmet.....crappy put together pep file.

here is the finished product... bondo and palstic.

how is that not sculpting...?

to me this is sculpting! the paper base is no longer....just your work of art!

 

[propologist]

to me this is sculpting! the paper base is no longer....just your work of art!

+1..very nice work

 

[Grey]

It's really a pretty simple issue, what complicates it is the self-enforced "RPF Code of Conduct".

What I mean by that is thus; casting a screen-used piece is still recasting, but it's not looked down upon by other users here. What is looked down upon as recasting, is when one guy steals a sculpt from another RPFer.

Or rather, when it actaully hits close to home, it's recasting. People tend to use the word whenever it suits them best. " This helmet that I bought, which was cast off a screen used piece, is not recasting, but this guy who re-cast MY helmet that I made, and sold it on ebay, now he's a dirty recaster. "

 

[TOSPHASER]

It's really a pretty simple issue, what complicates it is the self-enforced "RPF Code of Conduct".

What I mean by that is thus; casting a screen-used piece is still recasting, but it's not looked down upon by other users here. What is looked down upon as recasting, is when one guy steals a sculpt from another RPFer.

Or rather, when it actaully hits close to home, it's recasting. People tend to use the word whenever it suits them best. " This helmet that I bought, which was cast off a screen used piece, is not recasting, but this guy who re-cast MY helmet that I made, and sold it on ebay, now he's a dirty recaster. "

:lol exactly! .........if it is something some one wants it is ok!! but it better not be any of my stuff being recast! :wacko If it is already made! and you didn't make it....and no one has given you the ok to copy it it is recast!
even if 50 people want a copy it is not ok!!!!:thumbsdown

 

[Art Andrews]

TMP,

Yes, we can look at it, but if you are hoping for a black and white definitive statement on each issue, I can tell you now that you are unlikely to get it. Recasting is a VERY grey area and always will be no matter what any one person or even group of people "decide." The intricacies and variables of the issue means almost every case has to be handled individually. Beyond that, while we can make lofty pronouncements here on this site, we do not have the ability to regulate the actions of people on other sites or in the real world and then there is the question of if we ding someone for being a recaster off this site, whose rules do we apply; ours or the site they were on at the time and whose word do we take when the issue is unclear or the two parties have different stories? While we want to provide some level of protection to our members and to active licensees from recasting, we have NO interest in becoming the recasting police.

Dear RPF Staff, can the Staff please take some time together to look into the existing guidelines and se if there could be made new updated guidelines that takes in consideration these new mediums of making props.

• 3D Files guidelines for Printing, CNC & Pepakura
• 3D Printing guidelines
• Pepakura guidelines

• Guidelines on Modifying existing licenced prop or fanmade prop for personal use. When does it become recast, if modifying fellow members peice sould it be requested approval.
• Guidelines on restoring original screen used props and when or if it is ok to offer for sale? The peice beeing over X years old? Or ?
• Updated the termenology and terms of new mediums, example dont confuse word SCULPTING with PEPAKURA. And what do you call it when you are modifying and do the final finish on the pepakura.. Any word that is apropraite to use.

And probalby some more areas...

 

[rollerboi]

"Re" means again. You don't recast a production piece, you cast it. It tends to be a generational issue.

I love these threads, they never fail to help me calibrate my compass of who to deal with and who not to deal with.

 

[Grey]

"Re" means again. You don't recast a production piece, you cast it. It tends to be a generational issue.

I love these threads, they never fail to help me calibrate my compass of who to deal with and who not to deal with.

Alright, that's fair enough. Cast refers to the first pull of a production piece, and a re-cast is a pull from that Cast.

However, I would still argue that Casting a production piece, and selling it, is just as morally reprehensible as someone who re-casts said Cast, and in turn sells it. The latter is simply frowned upon here more than the first.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Who are talking about morals here?

 

[nailuj]

Couple of questions:

If someone has an original, screen used SW ep IV stormtrooper helmet and allows somebody else to take a mold and then make more, is this recasting?

Same goes is someone acquires the original molds but they weren't originally involved in the project and then produces a product, where does this sit in peoples view?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Couple of questions:

If someone has an original, screen used SW ep IV stormtrooper helmet and allows somebody else to take a mold and then make more, is this recasting?

Same goes is someone acquires the original molds but they weren't originally involved in the project and then produces a product, where does this sit in peoples view?

Okay in my eyes, if there were permissions granted in both cases.

 

[propologist]

Couple of questions:

If someone has an original, screen used SW ep IV stormtrooper helmet and allows somebody else to take a mold and then make more, is this recasting?

Same goes is someone acquires the original molds but they weren't originally involved in the project and then produces a product, where does this sit in peoples view?

< getting lawn chair and beer for this one >

 

[TOSPHASER]

< getting lawn chair and beer for this one >

finishing my beer and putting away the lawn chair.......nothing will be resolved here + in the real world there is no control! I always say if you don't want it recast then don't sell it.......I am a firm hater of recasters and kick my self every time some one does it to me!......but I just suck it up and keep going!!! :lol
I am out

 

[propologist]

finishing my beer and putting away the lawn chair.......nothing will be resolved here + in the real world there is no control! I always say if you don't want it recast then don't sell it.......I am a firm hater of recasters and kick my self every time some one does it to me!......but I just suck it up and keep going!!! :lol
I am out

i agree , people are always going to so it no matter what people say. It is fun to see people get worked up about things out of their control.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

It's not out of their control. They can either do what tosphaser does and just continue or they do what most people do - they just stop making new stuff, which is a terrible loss to the whole community.

 

[themanwoaname]

remember your really only talking about rules that are set in " this world" , not the world at large , who mainly buys stuff. I generally think many members recast but are man enough to put it out on the boards due to business sales or just general inclusion within this world.

im trying to illustrate the purchaser's perspective over the recaster's perspective. it goes both ways, someone has to buy from the recaster in order for them to have business. however im not entirely clear on your last sentence.

im very stingy with what i make, what i buy, and what i give away(again, im not in this hobby to make money). i dont have any desire to copy something i purchased to sell, however i dont care where whatever it was i wanted came from as long as i have it. whatever it is that i own thats a prop or a costume isnt going any where.

im not saying i support recasters, im not saying i dont support them either. i saying, look at it from a purchasing point of view, from people outside of this community. you all know you arent purchasing from recasters(and thats great), but the casual person that wants something, doesnt care who they bought it from. so the "recaster" fingerpointing falls kind of short with me, it doesnt fall on the actual recaster themself who may offer something for less, but the people that keep purchasing what they want at a lower cost, who cant be to blame because they wouldnt know any better.

another view point i have is while i dont see a recaster as robin hood, there are some original makers that horrendously overprice their product taking advantage of fans who want the product and dont know that they could scratch build their own for a very small fraction of the price, just as good. i would rather a legitmate fan have what they need and for what they have to spend with than get ripped off.

its like researching the price of any product really. if you see one thing for 700 bucks, and another for 300, what are you going to do? this arguement goes out of play when the recast item is the same price of the original item, and into a completely different beast.

finishing my beer and putting away the lawn chair.......nothing will be resolved here + in the real world there is no control! I always say if you don't want it recast then don't sell it.......I am a firm hater of recasters and kick my self every time some one does it to me!......but I just suck it up and keep going!!! :lol
I am out

i agree , people are always going to so it no matter what people say. It is fun to see people get worked up about things out of their control.

EXACTLY THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE! im very pleased you two understand what im trying to convey. recasting and buying recasts is out of their control. getting worked up about it gets one no where more ahead than they were before.

It's not out of their control. They can either do what tosphaser does and just continue or they do what most people do - they just stop making new stuff, which is a terrible loss to the whole community.

i dont agree with this. are you the type of person to stop doing your hobby becasue of that? i can see not making things available for sale, but not stop entirely. this is my hobby, i enjoy doing this, i wouldnt let anything stop me from continuing with it.

 

[CustomPropSculptorGuy]

< getting lawn chair and beer for this one >

Just sat next to propologist with a 12pk...

 

[Tan Djarka]

"Re" means again. You don't recast a production piece, you cast it. It tends to be a generational issue.

Nope. The production piece IS the cast. The production master is comparable to a fan-made sculpt. The prop, assuming it's not one-off item, is a cast copy of the production master (all screen used Vader helmets are not original, but a copy pulled from the molds of the production master/sculpt). Since both screen used and replicas are cast, and subsequent copies are therefore RE-cast.

Both screen used and replica items follow the same lineage: original sculpt to cast prop/replica to recast.