what happened to disney?

I think there might be some confusion. At least on my side of things: I consider Up to be a Pixar film, NOT a Disney film. Yes, Pixar is a part of Disney now, but I feel Up is still Pixar-independent enough to be separated from Disney-proper.

I also fear as time progresses, the Pixar quality will diminish over time and eventually, the name Pixar will disappear altogether. I fear Cars 2 is the first sign of Disney getting more and more involved in Pixar films.

So when *I* talk about the quality of Disney diminishing, I'm not referring to Up or other Pixar films (maybe Cars 2) and feel those movies are still somewhat outside the whole Disney franchaise.
 
Alan Cross said:
Gotta defend 'UP.' Great movie. The death of his wife... the miscarriage... come on, man. There was a lot more going on in that movie than talking dogs.
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Yea, that stuff was great, the problem was it dissapeared early in the film.

The story about the man piloting a house held up by balloons to the amazon to connect to his dead wife quickly became overshadowed with the talking dog and a quest to save some bird.

Im sure eventually Pixar is going to start sucking as well. Cars 2 was already the first crack in the armor, showing that they are willing to make a less than great movie to cash in on murchandising. Every great movie empire comes crashing down eventually. Disney is a perfect example of that.

However that doesn't mean it can't come back. Disney may be in a slump now, but it has recovered from one before. The 70s through the mid 80s were a pretty dead time for Disney too. The era of duds such as Pete's Dragon and The Great Mouse Dectective. And then suddenly in 1988 they got thier stuff together and made The Little Mermaid, one of the most famous classics Disney has. And then they continued too make classic hit after hit every year for the next decade. It came back then, so it cane come back again now.

Nothing good lasts forever. But that doesn't mean once that something is over it is over forever either.
 
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I consider Winnie the Pooh (2011) to be a travesty. There is so much about that movie that tells me the Disney story dept is out of touch.
I also consider two other movies mentioned here, Toy Story 3 and UP, to be misguided efforts.
While all of these movies have a few magic moments in them not one of them I feel was made with a clear understanding of its own message or direction.

Winnie the Pooh tries to cash in on the popularity of the original classic by showing us our favorite characters in some new adventures. The format of the story telling faithfully feels like the original movie but the stories left me feeling a little sick.
Its like all the characters have escaped from an insane asylum. Instead of some charming misconceptions about their world, they seem to just make things up on purpose to add confusion to situations.
Example; Owl reads a note that says "Gon Out Bizy Back Soon" and suddenly starts telling everyone that Christopher Robin has been captured by a creature called the Backson.
Yeah I get that Wol can't spell or read well but where did he get the idea CR had been captured? He goes on to plain old make up a bunch of attributes this imaginary creature has and accepts help from the other characters in making up reasons to fear this creature. WTF?

Toy Story 3 felt like every other "3" movie you can name. Sure the characters were there but they didnt seem to be the same characters you love from the first two films.

UP; please. That movie only is so well liked because it made people cry with the opening montage. Here is the rest of the "story" Old man hits some guy, escapes with a balloon house with the intention of dying in a jungle, gets stuck with a fat kid with daddy issues, meets several comic relief characters, enter bad guy who wants to kill people over some bird that he has wasted a lifetime sucking at catching, who also has dogs who can talk and fly fighter planes, ends with Old guy and Fat kid liking each other and getting ice cream. Deep man. Really deep.

Anyway I didnt mean to start a rant.
Point is, I agree that Disney has lost its touch.

Tangled was the best thing I have seen come from them in recent years. Sure it was predictable but it felt more lifelike and satisfying to me than any other recent efforts.
 
Davy Jones said:
UP; please. That movie only is so well liked because it made people cry with the opening montage.
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Hogwash. I would never presume to tell someone why they liked something.

The way Carl's journey as a character interacts seamlessly within the narrative of the film to produce a succinct thematic message is where the depth of "Up" can be found. While this uses the opening montage as a springboard, the series of decisive character choices that result in a linear string of visual metaphor are where the value truly lies.

You're out of your depth with this movie.
 
Tangled was ok, but it just lacked that iconic quality of early 90s Disney. One big aspect is that the songs were pretty forgettable compared to the classic songs Disney films used to have.
 
Once Marvel was picked up by Disney I started to do a lot of home work. There is a lot Disney does wrong but visit a park & they still have that magic. Tangle was about as close to a CGI with Disney feel. Wall E, for as good as it was you can feel Pixar's touch. Watch "The Story of Pixar" and you'll see there is a lot of bad blood between Disney and Pixar creatively. Share holders will always be the guiding business side of things, which will steer where the creative input is placed.
 
That's my argument."UP just used other themes and tragic events (or very similar ones) already seen and use in other films and some cartoons before. They wraped a basic story around it and invented some new characters, but they were also characters (and humor) I've seen in other films and cartoons.It lacked originality and indepenence to set it apart from other films and cartoons.It just followed a mainstream formula in story telling.The only thing that did make it different than previous Disney and Pixar films was that it was shown in 3d.Whoopie Doo.
 
nickytea said:
Hogwash. I would never presume to tell someone why they liked something.

The way Carl's journey as a character interacts seamlessly within the narrative of the film to produce a succinct thematic message is where the depth of "Up" can be found. While this uses the opening montage as a springboard, the series of decisive character choices that result in a linear string of visual metaphor are where the value truly lies.

You're out of your depth with this movie.
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You are entitled to your opinion of course. I would never presume to tell someone the reason why they didn't like something is because they dont have the depth to understand it.
Everyone's tastes run differently when it comes to entertainment. We all have movies we like for some reason even though we know they are poorly made.

The only thing I ever hear people talk about when they tell me how much they loved UP is that the opening montage was emotional (and it was) and they thought the talking dog was funny.

You tell me I am supposed to see a thematic message and characters making choices. That can be said about any movie.

In the case of UP, I see an old man who is sad and alone say F-U to society and go live his dream of living on top of a mountain in the jungle. Along the way he learns to love again by making friends with the son he never had.
The message is common enough and simple. So yes I believe I grasp the "depth" of the film.

I just dont think much of the blundering kid, comic relief dogs, shoehorned bad guy, bird plot device, and dogs flying fighter planes. But that is my opinion.
 
While I share some of the sentiments behind a few of the marketing and creative decisions Disney has made over the years when the emphasis is on story and characters they draw it in spades which I think Up had in volumes.

When a film can emotional resonate with it's audience it goes from being a good film to a classic which I agree with nickytea how this flick will be perceived by future audiences like my nieces, they adore this movie and even at the ages of three and four they can already understand more than just the humor but the message and underlying themes in it.

Is Disney perfect? Nope, just look at the incremental price hike on my annual pass but they still make quality entertaining programming and films like Tangled and Phineas and Ferb for there audience and are continually trying to find that fine balance between commercial and creative like they always have.
 
Actually I'm trying to watch again some of the "modern" (90's) movie they have made, and... Well, Hercules was really poor, and one of my favourites, Aladdin, well, didn't really aged well...
I have to say that the recent ones are really good movies, not to mention that Disney has always made some fun "live action" movies as well, some great, some... Not so much, but I feel they are doing the same things as before, well, except for their tv shows, but that doesn't matter, it's a huge society, they do a lot of stuff :)
Oh, for me UP was great!
And so was the first "Pirates" ;)
 
They fired all their American studio animators and began using overseas production houses. A few of my friends were part of that swatch of former Disney employees who found themselves unceremoniously dumped in the market. Some found homes at Dreamworks, others in lesser production houses. But to me, that marked the end of the era - when Disney killed its home animation department.
 
I don't count PIXAR movies to be contributed to the genius of Disney. Pixar controls their projects creatively and Disney gets to put their name on it. The Pixar movies have helped Disney stay afloat in the motion picture game for the last ten years.
Disney will always capitolize on their previous successes through efforts of the theme parks.
 
GeneralFROSTY said:
I don't count PIXAR movies to be contributed to the genius of Disney. Pixar controls their projects creatively and Disney gets to put their name on it. The Pixar movies have helped Disney stay afloat in the motion picture game for the last ten years.
Disney will always capitolize on their previous successes through efforts of the theme parks.
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i agree, lets not get confused. disney is not responsible for the pixar movies, they just release them for pixar. disney did buy pixar but one of the conditions of the purchase was the head of pixar, lassetter is now head of disney annimation studios, and with it, will come a revival of disney traditional annimation while pixar sticks with cgi.
 
You have to remember that Disney wants to own you from cradle to grave! Between their TV stations, movie studios, and entertainment depts (parks, merchandising, etc.) Disney owns my soul, my wife's soul, and my kids souls.

Starting from Mickey Mouse Clubhouse to Kick Butowski to Phineas and Ferb to Marvel cartoons ans movies to Disney Family to ESPN.....from cradle to grave! It is all about the characters and turning them into long producing franchises!


So yes Disney owns my soul and it be too late to alter course now......
 
Capn_Jack_Savvy said:
You have to remember that Disney wants to own you from cradle to grave! Between their TV stations, movie studios, and entertainment depts (parks, merchandising, etc.) Disney owns my soul, my wife's soul, and my kids souls.

Starting from Mickey Mouse Clubhouse to Kick Butowski to Phineas and Ferb to Marvel cartoons ans movies to Disney Family to ESPN.....from cradle to grave! It is all about the characters and turning them into long producing franchises!


So yes Disney owns my soul and it be too late to alter course now......
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its not too late, sell your wife and kids, you'll be alright :thumbsup
 
SVTStingRay said:
i agree, lets not get confused. disney is not responsible for the pixar movies, they just release them for pixar.
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And without Disney, Toy Story would never have been made, and Pixar would have faded into obscurity.
 
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