What do you do when USPS loses a package

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by mbmcfarland, Mar 17, 2006.

  1. mbmcfarland

    mbmcfarland Sr Member

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    UPDATE - I thought the mods had deleted or locked this thread. I never did find out what happened to that package, but I did get a full refund, so the drama is over.

    Nothing to see here... move along...

    --------------

    I bought a couple of Spider-man TV web shooters from a boardmember a month ago, and I did not receive them. I did not notice that it had been so long since I ordered them, but as soon as I realized they should have been here almost four weeks ago, I got worried and asked the seller when they were shipped. Fortunately, this seller keeps good records and he still had the delivery confirmation number. The delivery confirmation report online says

    Arrival at Unit, February 16, 2006, 8:56 am, LEESBURG, VA 20175

    I guess it got to my local post office. When I went to the post office and asked them to look for it, the postmaster ran an "Intranet Item Inquiry" for me. This shows the same information as the online system, except that there is an additional record:

    ARRIVAL AT UNIT 02/28/2006 14:10 ATLANTA, GA 30378 Scanner ID: 00A38T83G

    The postmaster does not know why the item got sent to Atlanta. He asked me if I refused delivery. (I did not.) Maybe it got misdelivered and the recipient refused delivery. Maybe it is on its way back to the seller. Nobody knows.

    Here comes the crazy part: I asked the seller to help me look for the package by initiating a search at his end (because that is what my local post office told me to do). The seller thinks that because I waited so long to contact him about the missing package I must be scamming him. He says that the USPS online delivery confirmation system clearly states that it was delivered a month ago. He is accusing me of lying, cancelling all my pending orders for new items, and being generally mean.

    What should I do? It's only a $100 item so that is not even any big deal. What upsets me is that somebody who doesn't even know me is calling me a liar and effectively "banning" me. (He makes lots of good stuff, too.)

    Mike

    edited - typo.
     
  2. Sidewinder

    Sidewinder Sr Member

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    Can you phone that post office you visited to make that type of enquiry? If so give the seller the tel no. and name of postmaster and have them speak to the same person you did.

    SAS
     
  3. Jedirick

    Jedirick Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I imagine the seller may be a tad perturbed to have something dropped in his lap over a month after shipping it out.

    Looks like the post office screwed up. Hope you insured package. Looks like they need to pony up. I don't know how it works but if they can't provide acceptible confirmation of delivery I would think they owe you even if not insured. Of course owing and collecting are two different things.
     
  4. mbmcfarland

    mbmcfarland Sr Member

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    Perturbed would be putting it mildly.

    So how long is the right amount of time to wait? I didn't know when the item was shipped, and I have often had to wait a few weeks before receiving a prop replica. The post office says to wait at least two weeks from when you expected to receive the item before initiating a search.

    I think the package is at the USPS Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta, which is basically a dead letter office where things go if they can't be delivered or returned. It should be held there for 90 days, which means I still have 73 days to find it.

    Thanks for your advice. This has never happened to me before.

    Mike
     
  5. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You might also point out to the seller that "arrived at unit" does not mean it was delivered to you it means it is still in the USPS system.
     
  6. Neon Sentry

    Neon Sentry Sr Member

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    I had a similar problem a while back. A lot of 12 GBA's were "delivered" to my house last year... USPS claims they were delivered, but, hey, no package. Nothing in the parcel locker, and nothing on my patio (we have a locked gate, and most of the time they just drop the package over the top without even checking) so that means, obviously I did not receive a package

    Well, there was a handful of cash I lost that day...

    However it seems there's a light at the end of your tunnel. Perhaps the seller marked an incorrect address?
     
  7. Tatooine_Todd

    Tatooine_Todd Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It seems part of his question is regarding how the seller is handling it. Calling him a liar and cheat, banning him from future sales, and not lifting a finger on his end to help in the search. Perturbed or not, I say it's not good form on the sellers part. It costs nothing to have the post office look into it.
     
  8. mbmcfarland

    mbmcfarland Sr Member

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    Thanks for the input. Like I said, this one really got to me for some reason.

    The good news is that I think the seller finally believes that the USPS lost the package because he has agreed to contact USPS and initiate the search from his end. (He would not give me his phone number so I could complete the post office form myself, anyway.)

    Of course, he still refuses to sell me anything else because he does not want to "risk" having anything else get lost. My mail is not any less reliable than anybody elses, but if that's the only issue then why ban me instead of just using UPS or FedEx? Frankly, I don't think I want to do business with him anymore either after this experience. That's a shame too, because his stuff is so good.

    I guess the moral of the story that the buyer and seller should both do whatever they can to make sure that tracking number is emailed to the recipient as soon as a package is mailed so the buyer knows when to expect it and can track it in real-time.

    Mike
     
  9. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    For my part, I always request insurance, and frequently tracking, when I purchase something valuable via the Internet. And the cost adds up fast, as I live in Japan. But I've had too many bad experiences with things disappearing. Even when the buyer and the seller act in good faith, if they don't know each other well, it's hard for them not to wonder about each other's integrity should a package disappear.

    There appear to be two possibilities in your case: the package has either been returned to sender or lost. If it was returned, then the seller will get it back and at that point he'll know that you were telling the truth about non-delivery. If it was lost, however, the seller may still have his doubts about you. But you haven't asked him to replace the items for free, have you? If not, then the seller has lost nothing by dealing with you (except, perhaps, the time it takes him to deal with this problem). You are the one swallowing the loss.

    In that case, in order to counteract whatever doubts the seller may still have about you, you might offer to pay for UPS, FedEx, or some other trackable carrier in the future if he will let you buy his stuff again. It will be more expensive for you, but you seem to admire this seller's items very much, so perhaps it would be worth it. And every time you buy from him this way, you'll build up a bit more trust between you.

    As for the accusations: I'm guessing the seller has (like a lot of sellers, and buyers, too) been burned before. Since so much time had passed before you told him the package was missing, he may have had a gut reaction based on bad experiences he's had with buyers in the past. I don't have both sides of the story, but based on what you've written it sounds as if the seller was pretty quick to point the finger at you. However, the fact that he's now expressed a willingness to pursue the package through the post office indicates that he's reconsidered his position, at least to some extent. In other words, it seems as if he is willing to recognize the possibility that you are telling the truth and the package was returned or lost.

    I hope the package will turn up. Whether it does or not, I hope that both of you can chalk this up to a misunderstanding, bad timing, and a fumble by the USPS, and agree to do business again. Try offering to pay for FedEx, if you're willing. It's worth a try. :)
     
  10. Jimbo890

    Jimbo890 Well-Known Member

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    From time to time I sell a few resin and vac-formed parts, and if my order is over $50, I usually get insurance, and delivery confirmation. Less than $50 I take the risk of the item getting lost, and sure enough, recently, I sent some parts out that the buyer claims he never received. I can't track that order so, I just sent him a duplicate order. If it shows up, or he is lying about it, I don't know. Part of the cost of doing business IMHO.

    Sellers should understand this. But some don't.
     
  11. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I like your attitude. You sound like an easy seller to deal with. And, unfortunately, I imagine that some buyers will take advantage of your trusting attitude. :(

    Most sellers I know take a different approach:

    Insurance is at the buyer's option. If the buyer elects not to insure an item and it's damaged or goes missing, the seller cannot be held responsible.

    Personally, I think insurance and tracking protect both the buyer and the seller. It would be great if the expense could be shared. :)
     
  12. mbmcfarland

    mbmcfarland Sr Member

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    I agree completely.

    I didn't want to get into the money issue since it's not as important to me as the issue of trust (or at least a little respect) between boardmembers. In this case, the seller did offer to give me a refund along with the other refunds he is processing on my pending orders. I told him not to worry about it because I know he shipped the item. He shouldn't have to pay for the post office's mistakes any more than I should. Insurance would indeed have protected us both, at least as far as the financial aspects of the situation are concerened.

    Mike
     
  13. Rylo

    Rylo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Michael, No need for the Cloak and dagger act. I have nothing to hide.

    Now, let's clear up a few things up here since you've decided to make this a public issue.

    First, you contacted me an entire month after a package was shipped, asking where it was. I told you I thought that was odd. I further stated I would've been wondering long ago where my package was if I were you. I hate to wait on packages, etc.

    You simply said, "you didn't want to bug me." Again, I mentioned it was odd and I explained I don't mind anyone checking with me at any time if curious about the status of a package. I never called you a liar or a thief. But, I must say I've never had anyone out of thousands of transactions over the years contact me so long after a package has been shipped. That's also what I told you...

    About 2 minutes after you brough this to my attention, I sent you a copy of the stamped delivery confirmation slip clearly marked with your addy and asked you to take it to your PO. (you've suggested I didn't want to help you??? This slip is seen below with the transaction info from USPS)

    You later informed me that they sent the package to VA for some reason but you wanted 'ME' to check on it. I informed you that there wouldn't be much I could do on my end since it was your postal branch that sent the package to Atlanta and there was no record of that on-line. The confirmation/confirmed delivery was to your State but for whatever reason, they sent it elsewhere. (Again, I sent a photo and record of your transaction without delay but you paint are trying to paint a different picture for some reason)

    I belive you became upset when I informed you that I would be uncomfortable sending you anything else at this time with so many questions in the air as to the location of this package. I informed you I would be processing refunds for your pending packages and also informed you the need to insure items and request Signature confirmation in the future.

    If I can prove I mailed a given item but you say you don't have it then that leaves me one choice. To give you a refund. Just like a told you...it rather holds me hostage in the transaction because the buyer will always demand one or the other.

    See, unlike some, I don't leave clients in a spot for any reason. Eventhough I can prove I sent your package I will still process a refund for you. Yes, it bothers me to make and deliver an item and still have to process a refund. I am one of only a few sellers on the RPF who offers a 100% cash back guarantee on anything and everything they offer. While I believe you are demonstarting poor form here, you're certainly no different and are covered just the same.

    You are also neglecting to tell everyone that you currently have over 350.00 worth of merchandise reserved and paid for that I have offered to refund rather than risk an instant replay of this whole event.

    Let's wrap it up.

    1) You ordered an item that was shipped with delivery confirmation.

    2) You contacted (me) the seller an entire month later asking about a cold delivery.

    3) I instantly tracked and sent you the delivery info and a photograph of the actual receipt and asked you to run it by your PO since that was indeed the last point of activity. I keep fantastic records.

    4) I informed you that I would be refunding your other reserve orders rather than risk this happening again pending an investigation. Why would I risk having to make this stuff, deliver it, have it go lost and then have to refund it again, too?

    In all honesty, if your PO can't get a package to you worth 99 bucks I'm not gonna risk packages worth hundreds. Not to mention, it does disturb me that you brought this up a month after the fact, making this more difficult to locate. You are the only RPF member that I've ever had a problem with in over half a decade. That's just a fact... It ceratinly doesn't make you a thief. I suspect you're reading too much into things.

    6) It seems to me that you're simply upset that I had informed you that I'm not comfortable sending anything else to you at this time while one package is lost and I have to make good for it.

    In an effort to protect both mine and your piece of mind I informed you I would be processing a refund. Please check your PM where I stated you would need to request insurance and Signature confirmation if the future. You weren't cut-off, Soup * style or anything.

    7) Looks to me like I did everyhting to help you and give you piece of mind even going as far as to offer a refund for the package I proved was shipped.

    While we had no problem with our relationship before (as far as I was concerned) I think you can probably imagine that I do now. Just as I considered you contacting me a month after the fact odd, I consider you posting this rather non important thread at the RPF just as odd and rather telling.

    This strikes me as a futile attempt to sully my reputation for no other reason than you were told I wouldn't ship anything else to you at this time.

    Sound about right? I mean if you aren't out any cash at all, who's lost anything but me even after even proving I shipped?

    If anything I should've authored this thread;

    "What do you do when you bend over backwards to help someone, offer reunds and even send delivey confirmation photos and they still post a thread about you?" :angry

    I informed you in our last exchange that I would handle all details of this investigation. I know nothing about a pakage being sent to Atlanta. The final tracking info shows this item to be in VA. No matter...it would take too much time for the PO to go between us both when I'm the one who has to make this right, anyway.

    As mentioned. I have processed a refund for your lost order and will eat it on my end. I do indeed consider it the price of doing business. Please return the package to me if it should ever make it to you. If you check your PayPal you will see the credit.

    I remain perplexed by your post. As a matter of record and to protect my reputation I am posting a copy of your shipping receipt. Please note the date. You contacted me about this yesterday and I leaped to action for you.

    If my tone seemed curt I like to get to the point and stick to business. No need for romance... Just a prop or the cash. I believe all RPF transactions should be handled the same way. The prop or the cash.

    In this case. It's cash for you and I'm out both. What exactly are you distressed about? As mentioned, isn't the real truth of the matter, you're simply upset because I refused to send anything else your way in light of these events?
     
  14. TOSPHASER

    TOSPHASER Sr Member

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    Yeah.........With all that being said what is the big deal. sounds like you are very lucky Rylo is such a great guy... in the prop world it is for the most part.....as-is no refund... once it is mailed with record it is out of my hands..
    I would say this thread needs to be removed and a public apology is in order.
     
  15. mbmcfarland

    mbmcfarland Sr Member

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    Rylo,

    First, I got the refund. Thanks, but it was really not necessary for you to do that. It's not your fault that the USPS lost that package.

    I am not upset about you refusing to ship me additional items, just surprised that your reaction was to single me out as a "bad customer" when I did not think I had done anything wrong. I am, however, upset because even though we have had no problems in the past you just assumed that I was trying to rip you off or something.

    When I originally posted this thread, you had told me it was my problem because the package made it to my post office and the tracking "clearly stated" that it was delivered. My post office had told me that you (the sender) needed to initiate the investigation with your post office. I was not trying to bash you or anything, just hoping somebody might have an idea as to why you reacted like you did and what I could do to track down the package without your help. I did not know what else to do.

    I am sorry I waited so long. I figured it could have taken you a couple of weeks to mail it and then (if there was some kind of problem) maybe a couple of weeks to get here. I just now realized that something was definitely wrong. Please accept my apology.

    I am also sorry I posted this thread. I should have known that my comments would be misinterpreted. I really did not mean any harm. Please accept my apology for that, too.

    I'm glad you decided to tell your side of the story.

    Mike
     
  16. Rylo

    Rylo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I ask that the mods DO NOT lock this thread. (Just spoke to Rick about it)

    I've posted a delivery receipt to protect my reputation. I have also edited out the addy as requested.

    This thread is of your design, Michael. You are having your own argument which makes no sense at all to me. I never accused you of anything or labled you a bad client. Perhaps you should revisit my PM. If the mods choose to remove the photo of the receipt; fine but please leave the thread. It serves a purpose.

    I believe we see too many threads at the RPF about people being ripped off. I think it's important to call a bad seller out in the best interest of the community and to serve as a warning to others.

    This; however, is abusive. I believe you've tried to use the RPF to extort a different outcome than what's been given to you. I believe it's rather telling when people try and light brush fires such as this. It can damage a sellers reputation that they've spent years grooming. I will certainly protect mine at all costs.

    You've been loose with all the facts, here. You need to fess-up and admit anger got the better of you and you've made an error in judgement.

    I did everything humanly possible to assist you and was still attacked. I believe your primary motive for posting this was out of anger that I refused to send anything else your way till this was resolved.

    Was this supposed to make me change my mind and persuade me ship to you anyway? You were never called a liar. As stated; I beleive you were (and still are) having your own argument. I did nothing but try and assist you.

    Even as I type this, your purchase has been refunded and I remain without the props or payment and STILL have to defend myself on your thread.

    Let's get the proper perspective on who the injured party is here. :rolleyes

    It's ironic that I've been on the phone with happy clients all morning who have been commenting on this thread. Oh' well...I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who's baffled by this. Thanks guys. :thumbsup
     
  17. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have nothing but good things to say about Rylo. And Mike, I don't know you, but you seem to be a good guy, too. It looks to me as if there were some misunderstandings, invalid assumptions, and overreactions here and there. It would be a shame if it meant that two good guys couldn't do business anymore. :(
     
  18. Jedirick

    Jedirick Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Rylo called me while I was at a winery. :D Took me a bit to shape up and get back here.
    I'd never fault any member for posting concerns about a transaction. I'd rather see a handful of misfires than another case of finding out way too late that nothing can be done.

    Looks to me like not only is there a missing apckage which is upsetting to both but also some incorrect assumptions made because of corrective action taken by Rylo.

    In otherwords, two problems exist, missing package and misinterpretation of intention.

    Nobody knows what happened to this package. This could be the first link in a chain of missing packages due to a weird neighbor or USPS employees. I'd be apprehensive as well. Until the mystery is solved, precautions should be taken. Insurance is certainly a given.
     
  19. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove Sr Member

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    Questions:

    1) Is it true that the PO says Rylo has to start the investigstion from his end.

    a) If so, is there a problem with Rylo doing this?




    As far as I know, I and RAC are the only others.
     
  20. Jedirick

    Jedirick Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Looks like he'll have to for any hope of recovery, he's out $100 and his goods. :D
    In my limited experience with USPS insurance claims, it didn't matter whether buyer or seller paid for insurance. The claim investigation originated from where package originally was mailed. I'd assume the USPS system is set up this way for this type of problem as well.
     
  21. Rylo

    Rylo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Truth is, I knew I'd have to eat this transaction the second I got the PM
    C'mon, if someone contacts you a month after you ship something by Priority Mail with delivery confirmation and says, "You ship my package yet?" You know there's trouble.

    No big deal. Like I said, it just never happened on an RPF deal before (IN 6 YEARS) but was bound to sooner or later.

    I took issue with 2 things. Being contacted a month late and this thread...that's it.

    The fact of the matter is, nobody lost a thing here but me. I've refunded a purchase for 2 props that I made and delivered. I've processed 2 other "pending" orders for refunds to avoid this happening again. That was another $350.00 so easy math...I'm out a total of 450.00 plus shipping and transaction fees.

    Michael is upset because he was told I wouldn't send anything else his way while this was going on. I further stated he would have to have signature confirmation and insurance in the future. I don't think this request is unreasonable.

    There are questions which remain open and I'd simply be a fool to ship to this addy again. Like Rick said, we could have a sneaky neighbor, a problem at this PO or any number of things. This buyer jumped the gun and got a little fragile about being told I was withdrawing future orders while this was being investigated...simple as that.

    I still remain perplexed by this thread. Should I risk further loss? Nooooo way.
     
  22. Lynn TXP 0369

    Lynn TXP 0369 Sr Member

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    But this is not true...

    If I read this correctly He says that when he types in the package tracking ID# it says it is Atlanta for waht ever reason, for you it says delieverd. So obviously there is a glitch some place in the system if the buyer is telling the truth.

    From my past experiance in losses with USPS packages on both sides it has always been up to the seller to get the process going, NOT the buyer, to file the claim and see what has happened, the buyer is left waiting in the process.

    If it is insured it is up to you the seller to file the claim and see where the package is, if it is Atlanta as he said it was.

    I have had packages that where delivered by 2-3 day priority mail and have taken over four weeks to get there, I have had to get the USPS lost package process started to find where that package was stuck at and get it going again so it either got back to me or the buyer.

    If it is stuck some place it may finially get to the buyer then he can either send the package back to you or he can resend his money back if he still wants it, then you would be out nothing.

    Just a thought,

    Lynn
     
  23. Rylo

    Rylo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Wha? I think you missed the part where reasonable options went out the window around the time this guy posted this thread.

    Type the # in yourself at USPS tracking and see what it says. It says nothing about Atlanta in the on-line search. This is how it reads:

    Label/Receipt Number: 0305 0830 0003 5143 8694

    Your item arrived at 8:56 am on February 16, 2006 in LEESBURG, VA 20175.
    ..............................................................................................................

    I'm not sure how many times I have to say this. I HAVE ALREADY PROCESSED A REFUND FOR THIS BUYER. I WILL HANDLE THIS WITH THE P.O. ON MY OWN.

    What are you saying isn't true? Are we reading the same thread?

    This buyer has made an issue of this matter by authoring this thread. I've refunded his purchase eventhough I can prove I shipped it. I do not dispute his word...I simply do not care to go back and forth with him after he posted this thread.

    I'm done with this, now. Thanks to everyone who chimed in. :thumbsup
     
  24. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    IMO, the seller could reply with ok I'm going to check with USPS instead of implying some deceit on the part of the seller (if that was the case). If there was some accusation and if it wasn't resolvable then coming here for advice is not unreasonable. A seller with a good record should be even more interested in a followup with USPS than to accuse a buyer.

    That being said, it is the buyer's responsibility when he agrees on the method of shipping to take some of the risk associated with that method. The package was sent with delivery confirmation which the seller can demonstrate and the USPS website still shows the record of that successful delivery. Yes the seller should check with USPS, but until USPS is able to track down what happened to the package, it is premature to expect a refund. If one is willing to wait one month before looking into the delivery, then waiting longer to find out from USPS what happened is showing good faith. If the seller shows that he has evidence he sent it, then coming here won't change anything, except forcing his hand for a refund. There's give and take here. There was responsibility to keep track of the package and that includes asking the buyer when it will be shipped out instead of assuming when it would be shipped.

    I've been in this situation myself a couple of times and it's never pretty, but patience on both sides is always helpful.
     
  25. juno

    juno Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    What's the purpose of this thread? If it's to figure out how to deal with the post office when a package was lost, couldn't the drama have been left out?

    I feel guilty posting this -- since it just bumps this junk up to the top again -- but I just couldn't keep quiet on this one.
     
  26. angelfire

    angelfire New Member

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    I wil add my 2 cents too. I have had problems with both UPS and USPS deliveries in the same manner. I find the same problem in trying to take care of the problem first without getting the sender involved, but it always comes back to having the shipper initiate the tracking investigation.

    I just went through the same problem with some supplements that I had ordered. When I was unable to get my package and it was lost in limbo at UPS, I contacted the shipper via email, who told me that I had to take care of it and that they couldn't do anything. He said I should contact UPS. I told him they told me he had to contact them.

    I called on the phone before he would do anything about it. I also got the same feeling of being told that I was full of it and that he couldn't be bothered with making sure the package got to where it should.

    Even on the phone, until he called UPS to confirm that he had to initiate the tracking, he made me feel lie I was a bother and was lying about him having to follow up.

    I am not a sensitive guy, but it annoys me when it is implied that I am not telling the truth when I am, and it is easy to get that impression from someone, even if they don't say you are lying in those words, when it could have been dealt with by him telling me that he would call them and get back to me.

    So, I can see where the poster is coming from with this point of view.

    As far as the tracking and showing up in Atlanta, the USPS and UPS system can show more info than what is available on their site.

    The majority of the friction from this is because USPS screwed up and did not deliver the package to it's correct destination, but a small part is from the shipper if the shipper doesn't just help out, without a fuss, in initiating a tracking investigation.

    On one final note, it is hard to read people's moods and intentions via email and written words, instead of over the phone. I too get concerened when I am unable to call and talk to someone about a problem if the resolution can not be handled over emails.
     
  27. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    :confused The shipper refunded his Money IN FULL.

    Rylo went above and beyond what he should have done like he ALWAYS does.
     
  28. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    Rylo, if I may comment:

    Did you send the buyer an e-mail indicating the package had been sent? I do even when I'm only the broker (in case of the King Kong gas bombs, which were produced in North Carolina, in fact ;)). If you did not, I can understand how the buyer could be unsure when his package was sent, and what to you *IS* a month might have seemed to him like 2 weeks. Just a thought... Plus, as I understand it, his postmaster told him to wait for 2 weeks from the expected delivery date before initiating an investigation.

    Another question: Did you print out or hand-write the shipping address on the package? The delivery confirmation receipt is in your handwriting, and for the life of me I can't make out some of your letters... If you did hand-write the shipping label, that could have contributed to the failed delivery - did you consider that? I always print out my labels using PayPal or USPS "Ship & Click," and the best part of that is the USPS sends the buyer an e-mail notification, absolving you of the responsibility. :)

    This is the part that bothers me the most. It sounds 100% punitive and irrational. You have both admitted that you've had successful transactions in the past - I presume to the same buyer's address, so what gives? :confused The buyer didn't *ASK* to have his orders refunded - you took unilateral action, Ry, which to most people would feel like being punished for no reason. I'm further confused by your claims that you'd be willing to resume business with the buyer once the current situation is cleared up, so why issue him refunds? Just hold onto the order a little while longer or simply send them out with insurance at the buyer's expense. :p Tell me this: by refunding the buyer, you're now freeing his order up for somebody else who may be on a waiting list, am I correct? So once "this situation clears up," the buyer might loose his chance to own what he already paid for, or have to wait for a longer time until you start a new run, so he ends up punished anyway through no fault of his own.

    I want to clarify that this is not a slam, Ry - I think you're one of the "model citizens" of this forum and certainly in the top 1% of ethical and reliable artisans I've ever seen. But sometimes I see you react emotionally to objective business problems and feel it's my duty as a fellow "citizen" to call you on it, because other sellers and artisans might do the same and say: "but it's ok for Rylo." I just don't enjoy seeing two good people come to verbal blows and potentially ruin a good artisan-collector relationship over misunderstandings and lacking communications. We all have private lives and being on top of prop transaction 24/7 is not always possible. But for those (like you) who do it for a living, the attitude should be "the customer is always right" unless you have proof to the contrary. And when the customer feels slighted, he has every right to have his opinions and conclusions confirmed or critiqued by his peers, and that's what this thread is about - not a personal attack on you out of anger, even though you took it that way, which makes both of your reactions emotional and counterproductive.

    My two cents, and I hope that both this situation gets resolved and that Ry honors his current paid-in-full orders and makes peace with his aggrieved customer.

    - Gabe
     
  29. Tatooine_Todd

    Tatooine_Todd Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Just an addition in support of Gabe's post, at no time in this thread did the buyer "out" the seller. That only occured whgen Rylo himself entered the thread. To me, it seemed the intent of the buyer was only getting help in a shipping problem.
     
  30. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    To be fair to Rylo, Mike could have omitted mention of the webshooter replica if his intention was to discuss the issue "on principle," and not out Rylo, becuase everybody knows Rylo produced the webshooters. But since Rylo responded, the point is moot at this time.

    Just sayin', is all... :)

    - Gabe
     
  31. Lynn TXP 0369

    Lynn TXP 0369 Sr Member

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    Apparently we arn't reading the same thread because what I said WAS true..... If you were reading the same thread you would have noticed the buyer posted this information that I was refering to about Atlanta.

    "I guess it got to my local post office. When I went to the post office and asked them to look for it, the postmaster ran an "Intranet Item Inquiry" for me. This shows the same information as the online system, except that there is an additional record:

    ARRIVAL AT UNIT 02/28/2006 14:10 ATLANTA, GA 30378 Scanner ID: 00A38T83G"

    Hence why I said what I said..

    Lynn
     
  32. SPDOmegaRanger

    SPDOmegaRanger Well-Known Member

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    my suggestion is hound the PO or go to atlanta and demand they find your package or contact there offices at atlanta
     
  33. KarlBud420

    KarlBud420 Well-Known Member

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    How far did you have to go to dig this topic up? :rolleyes It's been over a month and a half...you're late to the party.

    Bruce
     
  34. SPDOmegaRanger

    SPDOmegaRanger Well-Known Member

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    sorry thought it was recent was looking threw various topics of webshooters forgot to check the date
     
  35. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I thought this thread had been locked a long time ago... :unsure
     
  36. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    Well, stale or not, it's been very illuminating. I'm also trying to track down a purchase, and this thread has helped me understand how to go about it, so something positive has come of all the bickering. :)
     

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