Westworld (HBO)

[Gimpdiggity]

That strategy though is based on the premise that they were trying to make the world the best it can be for the most humans... which is why the outliers were a problem... the solution being to remove the outliers...

Also I appreciate the Bible lesson - even though I already new that fact... In addition to that fact though- Rehoboam was a BAD King, making poor decisions - and Solomon was well -- Solomon... making wise decisions. Maybe Solomon was the "better" computer telling truth that this plan to control humanity in this manner was doomed to failure. Making Rehoboam the "Bad" computer making poor decisions...

Jedi Dade

Were they trying to make the world the best it can be for the most humans? Or were they trying to control the most humans? Powerful people GENERALLY have their own interests in mind when doing things, and those interests quite often don’t align with making the world the best it can be for people.

That said...

Did you notice that it was Solomon NOT Rehoboam that was making the predictions etc... I wonder if we are seeing another time loop here where solomon is making bad predictions and Rehoboam is making good ones, and we're seeing select pieces of each prediction and some version of "reality". and after the season is over we will have to piece it back together to see what part is what... Just a thought.

...none of this sentiment that I originally responded to makes any sense.

“Did you notice it was Solomon not Rehoboam that was making predictions etc...“

Solomon was BUILT to make predictions. Of course it’s making them. The whole point of these characters going to find Solomon was to get a strategy/prediction from it, because it apparently thinks/predicts differently than its successor, Rehoboam.

The fact that Solomon is making predictions in no way suggests that Rehoboam is not making predictions.

“I wonder if we are seeing another time loop here where Solomon is making bad predictions and Rehoboam is making good ones, and we're seeing select pieces of each prediction and some version of "reality".“

No. There is no other time loop. This has been a linear season, with occasional flashbacks. There has been nothing...at all...to suggest we are seeing two different time loops.

I would argue that ANY prediction made by a machine in order to control the population is inherently a bad one...particularly when the pieces of the puzzle that don’t fit get snatched off the street and put into cold storage.

If you look at the big picture, they’ve essentially made the real world just a bigger version of Westworld. People were upset that the action left the park, but it didn’t...the entire world IS the park...just with different “hosts” and different narrative writers. In the park Lee Sizemore wrote narratives for Dolores, Maeve, Teddy, and all the other hosts. In the real world Serac uses Rehoboam to write narratives for Caleb, Giggles, Liam, and all the other humans. In the park, hosts that go off loop get taken out of commission and put into cold storage until they can be repaired. In the real world, humans that go “off loop” are labeled outliers and put into cold storage in the Sonoran desert.

All of this said...it is Westworld, so it’s ENTIRELY possible that anything happens...but these points you’ve made make very little sense in the context of what we’ve seen...which is probably why the reviews and such that you read didn’t explore them.

The question that we all should be asking...is where/who is the last Host that Dolores got out of the park?

There were five Pearls in Hale’s purse as she left the island, but Hale herself was a host...so that means six Hosts.

We have:
Halores
Dolores
Musashilores
Connelores
Bernard

So there’s still one Pearl out there unaccounted for, which I’m assuming will be our big “twist” for the season finale.

 

[Jedi Dade]

The point was that Solomon was supposed replaced by Rehoboam - and thus decommissioned. from the perspective of the "current" ( and I use that loosely in a show that jumps all over) timeline Rehoboam is in charge... So why are we the audience seeing Solomon up and running and continuing to make predictions... I suspect there are some time shifting shenanigans going on in the story telling... again.

As far as whether this winds up being a linear thing or some type of clever jumping like season 1 - we'll see next week And Yes the last pearl will be a good reveal regardless of who it is .

Jedi Dade

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I think I may be mistaking what you’re referring to as “time loops” for what I’ve been thinking are simulation scenes.

Redirect Notice

What Is Dolores’s Plan for Caleb on ‘Westworld’?

To find out, it’s worth remembering what she told Teddy about cattle back in the first season of ‘Westworld’

www.google.com

A couple of good reads about what parts of the season that may have been part of a Rehoboam simulation. I’ve noticed a few of the weird parallels, but admit that I hadn’t really noticed the similarities between the two Delos board meetings.

I’ve been trying to figure out if the “Divergence” scenes are images from the simulation, or if those are scenes from the real world?

 

[Seabass]

I've been interpretting the Divergence stuff as how and how much current events are differing from the AI's predictions on how things will go. Did't Sirac have like a watch with the white divergence screen on it? Like he could look at a glance to gauge how things were progressing

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I've been interpretting the Divergence stuff as how and how much current events are differing from the AI's predictions on how things will go. Did't Sirac have like a watch with the white divergence screen on it? Like he could look at a glance to gauge how things were progressing

Yes, he did.

So...if those scenes are the real world, which is what I’m kind of thinking...then does that mean every OTHER scene is a simulation? Or are we seeing both simulation and real world, and it’s only showing Divergence when it’s a more major event?

 

[Seabass]

I have no idea, but they could still all be real world. The AI very well could have never predicted the events at the park to be possible or ever happen, so everything concerning Dolores will be a huge flag. It could even be something it uses/used to track her actions even

 

[Jedi Dade]

I was interpreting all of the divergences as the deviations form a circle in the display - when everything is running smooth its almost a perfect circle when there is one deviation there is a spike on the cirlce with the height being the magnitude, and when there are many deviations (like when the info was released) we see large clouds of black. I took those to be real world events not jiving with predictions. Next week we should be able to figure it out... it should be "fun" again to decipher Westworld .

Jedi Dade

 

[Wakeem]

It's odd that for all the I guess problems that some had with the second season. I was looking forward to the ending of that one. This season, even though it looks nice, it's not doing much for me. I guess because this is a shorter season, they got lucky with an extension. But I wouldn't be surprised if the 4th season is the last. Unless it turns out to be really good.

Perhaps this show should have ended at Season 2. If they want to use Ghost in the Shell imagery, have Dolores looking over the city after she escapes. I like Season 1 a lot. And I'm ok with Season 2. But this whole social thing in Season 3 is just kind of boring. Even the music isn't catching me. Maybe I just enjoyed the expanse of the park and the possible new stories they could tell there. Versus the real world and what an aware robot would do there.

We'll see what twist they drop tonight. But I'm not expecting to be that impressed.

 

[Noeland]

When I sat down and watched season 1, I really never expected to one day say "This is just project mayhem from fight club." but I did.

 

[Serenity]

I was waiting for a orchestral version of Where is My Mind at the end.

 

[AJK001]

I'm still digesting what we just saw for the final but based on what we saw it will be interesting to see who will and won't be around for season 4. I almost missed the extra scenes after the credits but I was waiting for the commentary they have after each episode. It wasn't until I saw the commentary that I realized that it was Gina Torres as Arnold's wife but if I remember correctly she played her in season 1 too.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

The only kind of issue I really have is the way they played up Dolores’s “death.”

We know there’s still a copy of her running around in a Lawrence body, so it’d be easy to rip that pearl back out and just put it back in an Evan Rachel Wood body.


Overall I enjoyed the season, and the episode, but it seemed like they jammed a lot into that final episode. We still don’t know if some of those earlier scenes were in a simulation or what. Dolores’s “plan” was never, in my opinion, truly revealed...or was her plan all along to free the humans?

One thing I found interesting...in season 2, Bernard killed Dolores at the forge, then took her pearl. He then created a Charlotte Hale body and put the Dolores control unit in that body. Then Halores killed the real Hale, and escaped Westworld.

So...the Dolores inside Hale is, as far as we know, the “original” Dolores.

With that in mind...

Spoiler

When we see the post credits scene where Halores is creating what appears to be an army of hosts, are we actually seeing the “real” Dolores?”

 

[JoeG]

I felt like it was pretty clear that the only scene in a simulation was the scene between Dolores and Maeve on the plains. Dolores explains that her plan was to free the humans because she was able to see the beauty in them because thats what her programming told her. And no, I dont think Hale/Dolores is the real Dolores at all. She's become much different.

I think we'll see Maeve continuing her search for the place where her daughter went and seeking out Bernard in order to do that. He's the only one that can help her.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I felt like it was pretty clear that the only scene in a simulation was the scene between Dolores and Maeve on the plains. Dolores explains that her plan was to free the humans because she was able to see the beauty in them because thats what her programming told her. And no, I dont think Hale/Dolores is the real Dolores at all. She's become much different.

I think we'll see Maeve continuing her search for the place where her daughter went and seeking out Bernard in order to do that. He's the only one that can help her.

Oh I didn’t mean what was a simulation in that episode...I meant throughout the rest of the season.

There are numerous weird little continuity errors that have suggested some of what we’ve seen may not have been “real,” particularly in regards to Bernard.

Finally, has Halores REALLY become much different? I mean, Season 2 Dolores was all about killing humans and destroying their world, which is quite a bit different than what Season 3 Dolores actually did in the end...meanwhile, End Credit Halores certainly seems ready to pick up where Season 2 Dolores left off.

 

[AJK001]

I'm still wondering if Evan Rachel Wood will be back even with a couple of versions of Delores still out there. She said something about how difficult filming Delores' death scene was during the after show commentary which is strange since Delores has died multiple times over the years. To me the only reason it would be difficult would be if she wasn't coming back and it was her final scene in the series.

 

[Wakeem]

The only kind of issue I really have is the way they played up Dolores’s “death.”

We know there’s still a copy of her running around in a Lawrence body, so it’d be easy to rip that pearl back out and just put it back in an Evan Rachel Wood body.


Overall I enjoyed the season, and the episode, but it seemed like they jammed a lot into that final episode. We still don’t know if some of those earlier scenes were in a simulation or what. Dolores’s “plan” was never, in my opinion, truly revealed...or was her plan all along to free the humans?

One thing I found interesting...in season 2, Bernard killed Dolores at the forge, then took her pearl. He then created a Charlotte Hale body and put the Dolores control unit in that body. Then Halores killed the real Hale, and escaped Westworld.

So...the Dolores inside Hale is, as far as we know, the “original” Dolores.

With that in mind...

Spoiler

When we see the post credits scene where Halores is creating what appears to be an army of hosts, are we actually seeing the “real” Dolores?”

The copies in this show remind me of that paper I wrote in the Tron Legacy topic here some years ago.

The copies in Westworld aren't like in that one Ghost in the Shell episode when Motoko controls a few different bodies. Dolores seems to copy herself and that combines with some of the personality of whichever Host. They just introduced that in Season 3. And it's odd considering all the different roles and characters that Dolores has played in and out of the park that a copy would work that way. Meaning that Dolores remembered all her deaths and experiences previously. But the main Dolores was in control at the end eventually.

With the copy, you would think that Dolores would only keep the essentials like the voice, knowledge, and mannerisms of a person. Not the entire personality to the point where it might override her personality like we saw happened with Hale, when she was cutting herself and cared about her family. And also Bernard questioned the security guy about it. But this is the new concept for Season 3. I don't think anyone considered that it would be some kind of Dolores / Hale combination at the end of Season 2.

Also, that episode at the sex slave club, Dolores has a line where she says if you have to do something, do it yourself. I really thought that if she was taking that kind of risk. That her original program would be backed up somewhere safe. She does have that helper AI doing so much stuff too. I thought we might eventually see the real Dolores alone in a room victorious. Kind of like that Ghost in the Shell movie. But who knows what Delos programmed them to do. There was that episode where Maeve learned as much as she could to the point of being able to control technology in the real world. But Dolores doesn't seem interested in that. But then again Maeve stood by while Dolores got in that gun fight too.

But they could do anything to bring Dolores back. Remember Bernard has that switch to change personalities. Dolores personality could be somewhere or in someone else as well for all we know.

I bet looking back, that we will see Season 1 as something special. Season 2 as the beginning of the end with warning signs. And everything else just passable futuristic TV. I'm not really interested in seeing those future Man in Black scenes that they keep teasing at the end. Nor why Bernard sat there for so long and probably let Stubbs die in that tub.

 

[Clutch]

Don't even call it Westworld anymore.

 

[Noeland]

Season 3 had it's moments. But it also had uneven themes, and I felt the execution of the ideas they were trying to present just didn't work. Rehoboam, and Serac in particular just never felt like a real threat, and never felt fully fleshed out. Pitting Maeve against Delores was pointless and we all knew that, I think we all saw what was coming and they sure did take the long way around to that payoff. Caleb's character didn't really have an arc. They spent too much time revealing stuff about him from the past, and not enough time showing us who he is now, for me to ever get fully invested in him.

I have no interest in watching a TV show about Caleb Nichols in the future. I found his character mostly uneeded, and contrived to the larger narrative. That last scene in the park where Delores somehow saw something in him felt painfully shoehorned in there. As if the producers told the writers "It's Aaron Paul, we got Aaron Paul, write him something so his character fits into this story about Delores fighting big business controlling our lives that we're working on from season 2." Everything that happened this season could have easily happened without his character.

And really, season 2 and 3 never felt like "I'm Delores and I choose to see the beauty in humanity because this one guy this one time did this one thing." Having a scene where she explains it to Maeve also just felt very forced and uneeded. Her plan always felt more like she was trying to free her kind, but her kind ended up destroyed and her plan didn't work at all. So hey, last minute, lets try and free humanity instead. Got the tech, might as well.

Now, all that said, I loved the cyberpunk visuals, the futuristic art direction, and some of those futuristic weapons. I love cyberpunk. I thought putting Delores into a cyberpunk city setting worked, but so much of the season felt like missed opportunity.

I do almost wish they'd changed the name of the show to Futureworld or something though. Becuase Westworld it just isn't.

 

[Wakeem]

I was curious and watched a bit of the finales of Season 1 and 2. Delores uses the same line to Maeve about beauty at the end of Season 3 that she has on the beach at the end of Season 1. So now I'm wondering if maybe all these seasons will play better if you watch them all together without the break. Or maybe that line was just thrown in because the writers thought it would be a good idea.

 

[CB2001]

The funny thing is this: Dolores in Season 3 has become William as he was in Season 1. I think she was expecting for there to be a fight and discovered that humans were much like the hosts, with them trapped in loops in a fake world. And what does she do? She basically frees them in the same way that William tried to, so that humans could fight back. She, essentially, became the very thing she was fighting against. XD

Also, the A.I. story... Seems like Jonathan decided to do a darker version of his show Person of Interest. I'm quite interested to see how the world has changed due to the events at the end of Season 3.