Westworld (HBO)

The show has a lot of good stuff so I feel bad about pointing out something that bothers me a lot - the two engineers in the body shop.

The engineers in the body shop annoy the hell out of me. From the moment they make their first appearance you already know they're set up to be a weak link. It's frankly hard to suspend disbelief when you have two characters that are written as naïve as these two bozos are. I know they're supposed to be buffoons but they stick out way too much as a convenient plot contrivance.

I even have a problem with the way the blonde guy taunts the Asian guy. It's written and performed as if they were in an 8th grade playground. I'm not saying it's impossible to have that dynamic but it's a common actor's choice/mistake to play it out like this. IRL when it's just two guys in a room with one taunting the other it's more typically passive aggressive. I'm sorry but some things stick out to me.

The Asian guy was way too eager to show Maeve how she works and the compound - especially when he knows she has been retaining memories. Is he so stupid that he can't see any long term consequence to doing this?

When the engineers are tasked to reprogram Maeve's attributes what's to stop them from messing her up completely? Why don't they just detune her aggression, initiative, independence etc?

It makes me wonder why Westworld doesn't have safeguards against staff bonding with hosts - at least a psychiatric evaluation for staff members, no?

I know the obvious explanation would be that Maeve was designed to be incredibly perceptive and persuasive regarding human behavior but it's just too convenient that Westworld paired her with the two dumbest engineers on planet Earth. I suppose if Arnold (or his AI) set this up I could buy the scenario but, until/unless that's the case, it just looks to damn... convenient.

It's probably been mentioned already but it just dawned on me that we're looking at an inevitable Maeve-Dolores showdown with Maeve seeing cruelty in guests and Dolores seeing hope. I'll be really upset if that's the big climax we've been waiting for.
 
The engineers in the body shop annoy the hell out of me. From the moment they make their first appearance you already know they're set up to be a weak link. It's frankly hard to suspend disbelief when you have two characters that are written as naïve as these two bozos are. I know they're supposed to be buffoons but they stick out way too much as a convenient plot contrivance.

It's probably been mentioned already but it just dawned on me that we're looking at an inevitable Maeve-Dolores showdown with Maeve seeing cruelty in guests and Dolores seeing hope. I'll be really upset if that's the big climax we've been waiting for.

I agree. I think they could have handled the end result of their situation in a much better way. I don't know if it's the actors they used, the way they played it out, or what.
The Asian guy just seems overly stupid and fearful. I'd rather have seen a guy that is just completely enamored with her and be the engineer that has the authority to make the change and the other guy be the underling that just has to go along with it. The whole thing played out really weak, but the end result of her having her personality matrix modded and what seemed like an awakening was neat.

I'm curious if there will be any reference to how they developed the personality matrix and if, during the development, they tested what a host would be like if they maxed out their attributes. Maybe that will be the disaster that occurred 30 years ago.
 
Yeah, I haven't really been able to figure out exactly WHY the tech guys did what she said. I mean, they have the tablet...so when she's like "Turn my apperception all the way up" they could have just been like "Umm...okay, here you go!!!" and turned everything down to basically nothing.

The ONLY thing I've been able to come up with, other than what dascoyne mentioned about Maeve being built to read and persuade humans is that they're afraid that since she's obviously got some kind of control over her system that they don't understand (the fact that she can wake herself up) that she will somehow be able to remember and report the interactions that she's already had with them? Like, the next time she gets pulled in by Bernard and interviewed, they're worried that she's going to basically out them? Like Bernard is going to go "Analysis mode; who else knows that you can wake yourself up?" and she's going to be like "Oh, Sylvester and Felix, the two morons that work down in tech...they've been doing what I tell them for a few weeks now because I know that Sylvester is selling the girls to the lonely guys down there for some extra money on the side."

That's the ONLY thing I've been able to come up with...I guess it's also possible that they get paid some ridiculous amount of money, and the fear of losing their job is extremely high.

I also agree with dascoyne's point about how Sylvester treats Felix...he's extremely hostile to someone that he CLAIMS is his friend...lots of yelling and anger. I know when I'm at work and there's some "guys being guys" trash talk and taunting, it's basically never hostile yelling. It's...odd...the way that they have written these two characters.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The MiB is Arnold. Ford killed Arnold in an argument over the morality of the park. Ford had already suspected Arnold would need replacing, so he built a copy in secret and then killed him. Ford told everyone that Arnold lost his mind and disappeared, so he told them he'd build a copy in his honor to wander around the park and enjoy what they had built together.

Also, this show while I fear will turn into a convoluted mess like Lost is holding it's own for now, but it really is a one trick pony. Giving Mauve more consciousness/choice is redundant because they'll always be able to turn her off or reset her. Of course when the writers lose their creativity, they'll simply have all the crazy, free minded robots take over the park and contact their leader......President Trump :lol
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The MiB is Arnold. Ford killed Arnold in an argument over the morality of the park. Ford had already suspected Arnold would need replacing, so he built a copy in secret and then killed him. Ford told everyone that Arnold lost his mind and disappeared, so he told them he'd build a copy in his honor to wander around the park and enjoy what they had built together.

Also, this show while I fear will turn into a convoluted mess like Lost is holding it's own for now, but it really is a one trick pony. Giving Mauve more consciousness/choice is redundant because they'll always be able to turn her off or reset her. Of course when the writers lose their creativity, they'll simply have all the crazy, free minded robots take over the park and contact their leader......President Trump :lol

You're making some pretty big assumptions about what's going on with Maeve. From what it sounds like, Arnold was trying to give the hosts' AI true sentience. The fact that someone is going in and fiddling with the code off the record is likely Arnold or whomever has taken over his work (personally, I think he's made himself into a ghost in the machine, having uploaded his consciousness into the park's computer system.

As for the Man in Black, he's pretty much been confirmed to be home and someone of importance in the real world, as we've seen from another host trying to thank him for his work that helped the other host's sister somehow.
 
The MiB isn't Arnold.

Nolan has said we won't ever see Arnold.

Also, like firsprite said, another guest has already recognized the MiB from his life outside the park. If he were Arnold, I'm going to guess that one tech wouldn't have needed to ask another tech if they should "slow him down." If he were Arnold, those techs would know that.

The idea of the MiB being Arnold just doesn't make any sense at all.
 
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Plus, isn't this Ford and Arnold?
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If they changed the logo in the footage they shot with William, that means originally he was in the same time frame as TMIB. I heard there was some rewrites, and some things reshot. Perhaps they reshot that scene entirely.
 
If they changed the logo in the footage they shot with William, that means originally he was in the same time frame as TMIB. I heard there was some rewrites, and some things reshot. Perhaps they reshot that scene entirely.


I dont think they changed anything, at least not for the sake of the story, in this instance.

I think the new new logo was shown in the thumbnail because that's the logo accompanying everything advertising the show. Showing the old logo, as was actually seen in the episode, on promotional material could cause confusion.

I have heard the same things about rewrites that you have...the show was in development for a really long time, wasn't it?
 
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The MiB isn't Arnold.

Nolan has said we won't ever see Arnold. .

The idea of the MiB being Arnold just doesn't make any sense at all.


So you're saying the writer(s) of a show, where they, if not are already, are making it up as they go along (LOST) has openly said something that won't be revealed later to be incorrect and you beleive that?

AND Arnold can't be the MiB because it doesn't make sense at all in a show where robots in a theme park can learn and possibly become conscious and attack their creators??

And I thought my guesswork about this show was flimsy.....:lol
 
So you're saying the writer(s) of a show, where they, if not are already, are making it up as they go along (LOST) has openly said something that won't be revealed later to be incorrect and you beleive that?

AND Arnold can't be the MiB because it doesn't make sense at all in a show where robots in a theme park can learn and possibly become conscious and attack their creators??

And I thought my guesswork about this show was flimsy.....:lol

Do you have any proof to back up your assertion that they are making it up as they go? When Nolan was asked in a Q/A if we will ever meet Arnold, he said no. For every other similar question he gave vague answers and dodged the questions.

Your idea simply doesn't make any sense.

If Ford "told everyone that Arnold lost his mind and disappeared, so he told them he'd build a copy in his honor to wander around the park and enjoy what they had built together," then how do you explain one of the backstage workers not knowing who MiB was? Ford told everyone, but somehow that tech was the only one that didn't get the memo?

How do you explain another guest recognizing him from the outside world and approaching him in the park? This after Logan has said that in their looking into the park, they couldn't even find a picture of Arnold.

So Logan's team of, what we assume are pricey attorneys couldn't even find a picture of Arnold, yet some random guest is familiar enough with Arnold to recognize him from outside of the park and approach him in the park?
 
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Do you have any proof to back up your assertion that they are making it up as they go?

No...just a feeling I have.....based on practically every show I've watched on TV in the last 5 years that all does the same thing....create an interesting concept, run it through one season, have no idea how to continue it without destroying it's basic appeal...so ruin it WITH rinse and repeat....House of Cards, Mr Robot, Lost, Stranger Things etc, etc.

Your idea simply doesn't make any sense.

And yet, when Westworld gets axed and/or becomes so convoluted that no one watches anymore....of course then it will still make sense.

I don't have to explain how it 'makes sense' because you already have so many questions that it obviously doesn't make sense....to you;)
 
No...just a feeling I have.....based on practically every show I've watched on TV in the last 5 years that all does the same thing....create an interesting concept, run it through one season, have no idea how to continue it without destroying it's basic appeal...so ruin it WITH rinse and repeat....House of Cards, Mr Robot, Lost, Stranger Things etc, etc.



And yet, when Westworld gets axed and/or becomes so convoluted that no one watches anymore....of course then it will still make sense.

I don't have to explain how it 'makes sense' because you already have so many questions that it obviously doesn't make sense....to you;)

Why even watch TV if everything that comes on gets ruined? :lol

Man, you are one negative dude. Stranger Things hasn't even HAD a second season yet, but you've already written it off as "rinse and repeat."

I honestly get what you're saying, but man, give it a chance!!! Maybe Westworld will surprise you...and I'm really thinking that Stranger Things certainly will!!!
 
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Why even watch TV if everything that comes on gets ruined? :lol
Man, you are one negative dude. Stranger Things hasn't even HAD a second season yet, but you've already written it off as "rinse and repeat."
I honestly get what you're saying, but man, give it a chance!!! Maybe Westworld will surprise you...and I'm really thinking that Stranger Things certainly will!!!

I can see your entire premise commenting within this thread is to attempt to get everyone to agree with you, regardless of fact, opinion and even reality.

You will always be right, for that is why we built you;)

I can see you have baited me somewhat, but that's acceptable, I have responded, I won't post again, I should be building props:D
 
I can see your entire premise commenting within this thread is to attempt to get everyone to agree with you, regardless of fact, opinion and even reality.

Hardly. If someone offered logical theories and backed them up with plausible evidence or even conjecture, I would 100% be interested. However, definitively stating that a character is something, then refusing to answer probing questions that dispel the idea, isn't a logical theory.

Had you been able to respond to my questions about information that we KNOW from the show that seem to dispel your idea, or even tried to do so, I would have been quite open to listening to what you had to say.

Instead, you responded to my questions with "I don't have to explain how it makes sense because it doesn't make sense to you."

yaris said:
You will always be right, for that is why we built you;)

I have literally no clue what this means.

yaris said:
I can see you have baited me somewhat, but that's acceptable, I have responded, I won't post again, I should be building props:D

I didn't bait anyone. I posted plausible, known information from the show that contradicts your theory. You ignored it, and instead just posted nonsense about how shows that are in their first season just fall into a "rinse and repeat" cycle.

Have fun building your props.
 
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