Westworld (HBO)

[Gimpdiggity]

You're absolutely right. And the way Maeves story is told is a great way to do it. But Dolores and Lawrence? Dolores might as well be a guest at this point, and how is it possible to move her to the office for a chat without the guest noticing?

Again, you're kind of missing the point. Dolores is our main character that is learning what she is. At this point she's basically a participant in something that she doesn't really know what it is, and she's slowly becoming more and more aware of what's going on around her.

As for moving her to the office, you're putting too much faith in the continuity we're being shown as actually being chronological.

For example:

At the end of Episode 3 we see Dolores stumble across William and Logan's camp while they are out on their bounty hunt. Then, we started Episode 4 with Dolores talking to Bernard about her parents getting killed. After she finishes this conversation, we then see her wake up back in William and Logan's camp.

There is nothing in the show that has said this conversation is taking place in real time. For all we know it's a flashback to a previous conversation that Dolores had with Bernard before William and Logan even got to Westworld for their trip.

Lawrence loop is broken but noone seems to mind, certainly not Lawrence who just continues like nothing happened.

How is Lawrence's loop broken? It's been well established that hosts stay on loop unless they have been interacted with by a guest which takes them off of their loop.

Lawrence, very clearly, is being interacted with by a guest...

Too many liberties are taken with the premise established in episode one and the the questions keep piling up. Yet we have the same exposition over and over again which doesn't lead to any answers. It seems it's "Lost" all over again. I think I made it to episode seven of that show before I gave up, let's see if "Westworld" can do better.

What premise exactly are they getting away from? Everything you're criticizing is well within the bounds that have been established by the narrative.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

A couple of jaw dropping moments tonight, and another piece of evidence that we might be seeing stories going on in two timelines.

 

[DavidS]

Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

Amazing episode.

Ok let's discuss: William and Jerkface where discussing the creator dying but know one knows his name. But they purposefully did NOT say how long ago that was
In every other reference to Arnold they say it's 30-35 years ago.

This episode had ALOT of content.


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[Gimpdiggity]

Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

Amazing episode.

Ok let's discuss: William and Jerkface where discussing the creator dying but know one knows his name. But they purposefully did NOT say how long ago that was
In every other reference to Arnold they say it's 30-35 years ago.

This episode had ALOT of content.


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Yeah, I felt that there were some major "these are different timelines" clues in this episode, but not enough for me to definitively say that's the case. I was on board with that idea at first, then moved away from it, and I'm now back to it again.

Spoiler

Like Lawrence being in the town when William and Logan show up. I guess it's possible they fixed him up and tossed him right back in the mix, but the way it was portrayed made it seem like it was supposed to be one of those moments wheee the viewer says "Wait a second...you JUST got killed, how are you back?" type of moments.

Unless, in William and Logan's timeline Lawrence wasn't just killed by MiB.


I also really liked Ford's asking Dolores about Arnold. He said a few things that could have eluded to he and Arnold actually being the same person.

 

[DavidS]

Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

Yeh. It's really odd that no one knows what Arnold looks like.
Unless Hopkins IS Arnold and Ford was the one that died? Switched identities?


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[Gimpdiggity]

Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

Yeh. It's really odd that no one knows what Arnold looks like.
Unless Hopkins IS Arnold and Ford was the one that died? Switched identities?


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I'm wondering if maybe Arnold was never a person at all. Clearly Ford is good at creating AI. What if Arnold was simply a program? The program that would eventually lead to the "brains" inside the hosts, but in the earliest iteration existed only on a hard drive?

If Arnold was just a self-aware program, maybe he "killed himself" (or was killed by Ford) because he wasn't happy that Ford was going to be using the AI in the park but not allowing the AI to be self-aware, effectively using the hosts like slaves.

Just random thoughts from me here.

 

[Seabass]

this was easily the best episode since the pilot. so much happened. I need to watch it again to digest it all.

And it wasn't on the player piano, but totally old Nine Inch Nails song used this time, Something I Can Never Have

 

[Gimpdiggity]

Little details in the show keep catching my eye.

Like, did anyone else notice that the old host that Ford is talking to in the beginning...when it blinks, it's eyes open back up at very slightly different speeds? It's clearly much older technology, not only in its programming, but in its physical construction. That ends up being something that MiB makes a comment on later in the episode.

 

[Soulinertia]

Excellent episode! Loving all the subtleties. Must watch again right now.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

Spoiler

Alright guys, am I just crazy or what...

...the chronology for those two techs tonight seemed really strange. When we first see them they're basically having a competition to see who could finish their work first. They're working on a host that had a knife wound that seemed like they were looking for someone, and it clearly looks like Maeve. They go to break.

We see them next when the one guy is working on bringing a bird back to life. The other dude kinda flips out and says they've got another body. He wheels in Maeve and the first dude freaks out.

Does this seem out of order? Or is it really late and that wasn't Maeve they were working on when we first see these guys?

***EDIT***

Went back and watched it again tonight, and the chronology for the techs certainly was off, as I originally thought. Now I'm wondering why it was off...what are they trying to tell us?

 

[Gimpdiggity]

Spoiler

Something I noticed on my second time watching tonight...

Here are a few (very poor) screen grabs of the knife that MiB used, particularly when Teddy showed us the Samaritan Reflex and protected Ford.

Here are some shots of William pulling a knife from his belt in the preview for upcoming episodes.

I don't know about you guys...but that looks like the same knife to me. Of course, it's entirely possible that both of them just chose the same blade...but given that there is a fairly plausible theory that we are watching two timelines, this could just be more evidence of that.

If you actually watch both scenes it's much easier to see. My screen grabs are very poor quality. Sorry about that.

Something else that I noticed the first time, but it really stuck out in the second viewing...that kind of throws a wrench into the "different timelines" idea again is Ford's interaction with Dolores. Dolores is with William and Logan and she ends up wandering into a Day of the Dead type parade of people...she then hears the phrase that causes her to fall asleep, and the next thing we know she's talking with Ford. Right off the bat the first time I watched I decided to myself that Ford, Bernard, et al don't need to physically remove a host from the park in order to have these conversations with them...they're doing it somehow wirelessly, and projecting themselves into the hosts "brain" if you will.

What threw me with the different timelines thing was that she's talking to Ford and we now know that Ford is in the same timeline as MiB, because they obviously meet each other and talk in this episode. So, she's with William and Logan and pulled into her meeting with Ford who looks the same as he always does, who's meeting MiB just moments later in the show...so that would seem to indicate, once again, that William, Logan, and MiB are actually in the same timeline.

The show is doing an AMAZING job of masking this idea and giving just enough evidence to get you leaning one way, before giving you just enough to have you leaning back the other way.

All of this, of course, is predicated on the idea that Ford is NOT a Host himself...if he's a Host, then he would look the same all the time for years and years...but that gets into entirely different theories and discussions...

 

[Wetwired]

Again, you're kind of missing the point. Dolores is our main character that is learning what she is. At this point she's basically a participant in something that she doesn't really know what it is, and she's slowly becoming more and more aware of what's going on around her.

You really like "Westworld" and I am not going to argue about it´s merits, each to his own. I'm not liking it as much anymore, it gets boring when we´re served scene after scene which doesn´t lead anywhere but the inevitable doubletake/twist/reveal which probably won´t happen until the last episodes cliffhanger.

 

[AJK001]

I have to say that I thought this last episode was the best one so far. They also gave out more hints and confused everyone a bunch more because it SEEMS like they are jumping all around with the timeline. I will be very interested to see whose guesses are correct about where things are going and if they really are jumping all over the place or are just trying to keep us guessing, which they are doing a great job of. The only thing I'm bummed about is that since they have already said the show is going to be on for multiple seasons we may not get any real answers for a few years.

 

[0neiros]

I had an interesting thought, what if the hosts are based on Silicon instead of Carbon? That would make them easier to repair. I Also noted how much more "Blood" they have than us. We have about 5 quarts, they have 3+Gallons I'm thinking it may be for additional weight.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

Totally didn't catch this in either of my viewings, but when Dolores and William join Lawrence in the train car, it shows William and Lawrence move to one end of the train car and have a drink. We then see Dolores move towards the coffin in the center of the train, and she looks down at the marking of the maze on the lid of the coffin and then goes to that "Analysis Mode" voice and says "I'm coming."

Well, what I didn't catch was after she says this, they show the shot again and now William and Lawrence aren't in the train any longer.

When I first heard about this I figured it was because they were at the opposite end of the train car from the angle that it was showing her at, but I went back and checked and it's pretty clear...they were there, but then they're not.

When she moves forward and kind of faces the coffin, they would be on her left. The shot when she moves shows her from that side of the car so that you see the side that they she and William entered from. When she says "I'm coming." it then shifts to the other side of her, showing her from her right so you would see what's to her left, and William and Lawrence are clearly not there.

I even paid attention to the things that are stacked on either side of the train, and they are different (front of the car versus the rear) and the shot that's showing them not there has the things that should have been sitting right next to.

Interesting...

Some screens...

Here is Dolores and behind her is the side of the train that she and William entered it from. You can clearly see a large sack and some baskets.

Here is one of William and Lawrence having their drink. You can see a crate with some bottles in it on top of what looks like a larger crate, but no sack or baskets. It's the opposite side of the train car.

Here is one after Dolores said "I'm coming." You can clearly see that it's the side that William and Lawrence were on, but they aren't there any more.

 

[Fawbish]

Mind...blown

 

[glunark]

BTW, when they did the casting call for extras in this episode, do you think it really said "must be hung like a horse"?

 

[griffinx1]

Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

You can see a similar thing happen when they arrive outside of town in the graveyard. She is there all alone, kind of in that analysis mode, and then William, Logan, and Slim appear - all of a sudden. William even mentions he heard her talking and she said, "it must of been the wind".

Love it.

 

[Wetwired]

A little anecdote, I´m watching HBO in Sweden and in the latest episode the subtitles kept translating "The maze" with the swedish word for "The pyramid". Do they know something we don´t

 

[Noeland]

Not really an earth shattering revelation, and it could mean absolutely nothing, but TMIB and William do appear to have the same taste in knives.