Wait, BTTF just became implausible?

dbuck

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I did a search, so I'm sorry if it's been discussed.

From Wired:

Novelists and screenwriters know that time travel can be accomplished in all sorts of ways: A supercharged DeLorean, Hermione’s small watch and, most recently, a spacetime-bending hot tub have allowed fictional heroes to jump between past and future.

But physicists know that time travel is more than just a compelling plot device — it’s a serious prediction of Einstein’s general relativity equations. In a new study posted online July 15, researchers led by Seth Lloyd at MIT analyze how some of the quirks and peculiarities of real-life time travel might play out. This particular kind of time travel evades some of its most paradoxical predictions, Lloyd says.

Any theory of time travel has to confront the devastating “grandfather paradox,” in which a traveler jumps back in time and kills his grandfather, which prevents his own existence, which then prevents the murder in the first place, and so on.

One model, put forth in the early 1990s by Oxford physicist David Deutsch, can allow inconsistencies between the past a traveler remembers and the past he experiences. So a person could remember killing his grandfather without ever having done it. “It has some weird features that don’t square with what we thought time travel might work out as,” Lloyd says.

In contrast, Lloyd prefers a model of time travel that explicitly forbids these inconsistencies. This version, posted at arXiv.org, is called a post-selected model. By going back and outlawing any events that would later prove paradoxical in the future, this theory gets rid of the uncomfortable idea that a time traveler could prevent his own existence. “In our version of time travel, paradoxical situations are censored,” Lloyd says.


But this dictum against paradoxical events causes possible but unlikely events to happen more frequently. “If you make a slight change in the initial conditions, the paradoxical situation won’t happen. That looks like a good thing, but what it means is that if you’re very near the paradoxical condition, then slight differences will be extremely amplified,” says Charles Bennett of IBM’s Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights, New York.

For instance, a bullet-maker would be inordinately more likely to produce a defective bullet if that very bullet was going to be used later to kill a time traveler’s grandfather, or the gun would misfire, or “some little quantum fluctuation has to whisk the bullet away at the last moment,” Lloyd says. In this version of time travel, the grandfather, he says, is “a tough guy to kill.”

This distorted probability close to the paradoxical situation is still strange, says physicist Daniel Gottesman of the Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, Canada. “The thing is, that when we modify physics in this way, weird things end up happening. And that’s kind of unavoidable,” he says. “You’re dealing with time travel. Maybe you should expect it to be weird.”

In an earlier paper posted in May at arXiv.org, Lloyd and his team present an experiment designed to simulate this post-selection model using photons. Though the team couldn’t send the photons into the past, they could put them in quantum situations similar to those that might be encountered by a time traveler. As the photons got closer and closer to being in self-inconsistent, paradoxical situations, the experiment succeeded with less and less frequency, the team found, hinting that true time travel might work the same way.

The experiments were meant to simulate freaky paths through spacetime called closed timelike curves, which carry anything traveling along them into the past and then back to the future. Einstein’s equations predicted that travelers on a closed timelike curve would eventually end up back where they started. Although predicted to exist on paper, no such paths have been observed in the wild. Some physicists predict that these loops might exist in exotic regions where spacetime is drastically different, such as in the depths of black holes.

Despite its strange predictions, the new model forms “a nice, consistent loop,” says theoretical physicist Todd Brun of the University of Southern California. The new papers make up “a really interesting body of work.”

These days, deciding which theory of time travel is best is largely a matter of taste. Until someone discovers a closed timelike curve in the wild, or figures out how to build a time machine, no one will know the answer, says Brun. “I don’t expect these will be tested anytime soon. These are ideas. They’re fun to play with.”
 
Last edited:
Re: Wait, BTF just became implausible?

I can time-travel

Only forward and in real-time, but I'll be damned if I'm lying, I CAN time-travel!
 
Re: Wait, BTF just became implausible?

I have a time travel platform.

I lay upon it, turn out the lights and next thing I know it's time for work.
 
Re: Wait, BTF just became implausible?

It's like the re-imagined Time Machine movie where no matter how many times he goes back, he can't save his girlfriend from being killed. Her death will always occur, just the means would change to prevent the paradox of why he created the time machine to begin with. He created it to go back and save her, but if she had never died, he never would have created the time machine. So if said time traveler went back to kill his grandfather, something would always happen to prevent it so as not to create a paradox.
 
Re: Wait, BTF just became implausible?

They use "Movie Logic", not real logic.

Yeah, were there a sarcasm font, I would have used it for the thread title.

I have never thought that one can go backwards, anyway.

We always dream of possibly killing Hitler before he came to power, or saving JFK, or even just witnessing history without affecting it.

I really hope I'm not in an altered timeline. Imagine how bad a timeline would have to be for this particular reality to be a preferable version, based on the past couple of thousand years.
 
when i call myself to leave important messages so i dont forget, i always say
"hi future adam this is past adam."

because really, it is.
 
Re: Wait, BTF just became implausible?

I can time-travel

Only forward and in real-time, but I'll be damned if I'm lying, I CAN time-travel!
hysterical.gif
What?! You too?


Well, that'll mean, that Doc Beckett would be leaping back into himself, when he started the Quantum accelerator! Meaning no Quantum Leap. But otherwise, that'll mean that randomness and statistical probably is not so random, which is disturbing. But I believe more in the many-worlds-theory. Killing my gramps would open a new world (BTW: Why would anyone want to kill his/her gramps?!?)


Does anyone know, if you could manipulate time to travel through space faster? Because space and time are vowen together, there must be a way to manipulate time to traverse the vast distances of space, for example a spaceship that could travel to Alpha Centauri...


That's what I read in an abductee article, who was revealed, that aliens travel this way and warp drive isn't working like that in reality because of energy consumption...
 
Re: Wait, BTF just became implausible?

...But I believe more in the many-worlds-theory. ...

Yes, me too. Unless there is no such thing as free will, and everything we are doing is a) predictable and b) already laid out for us with no options, then there is another reality opening up every moment we make a decision. This means that there are already infinite numbers of different realities out there. Just what the Doc described ;) And what was chosen as "movie physics" in Jet Li´s "The One".
 
One world, one time, no free will, it's all preordained. If you travel back, that part of history would already have played out before you were born and you would have been able to read about what you did before going. No changes are possible. No alterations. It's all fixed. Your travel is fixed. You cannot deviate. Which means: we are playing out a script and free will is an illusion. We are at the mercy of the big giant head.
 
Uh-huh... so you just 'outlaw' certain things and the theory falls nicely into place, eh?

It's not a p[aradox, it's a causality loop. I've seen it on Star Trek.
 
Re: Wait, BTF just became implausible?

Yes, me too. Unless there is no such thing as free will, and everything we are doing is a) predictable and b) already laid out for us with no options, then there is another reality opening up every moment we make a decision. This means that there are already infinite numbers of different realities out there. Just what the Doc described ;) And what was chosen as "movie physics" in Jet Li´s "The One".

THIS. sometimes i think about the littlest thing and how it effects this reality, and how it effects it has on others.
 
The fact of the matter is that we don't understand time or time travel enough. Until someone actually tries time travel (and not the standard movement forward we all experience), then we will probably never know.

So until then, books and movies can do whatever they want.
 
Back
Top