Tombstone Val Kilmer / Doc Holliday Costume

[Cameron1138]

I just did some more searching on Taobao and managed to find several that are tantalizingly close, but still nothing quite perfect. This one’s a black and grey herringbone with purple stripes, but they’re a much lighter purple that’s closer to pink and the overall color looks probably a little too light:

This one’s got blue stripes but it’s a twill rather than a herringbone and definitely too light:

This one’s a darker herringbone with blue mixed in, but blue speckles rather than stripes:

And this one’s a rough herringbone with alternating blue and purple stripes (!!) (I believe that’s what the original fabric has) but the overall color again looks like it’ll be too light:

For comparison, here’s the fabric I currently have, a charcoal herringbone with faint bluish undertones:

 

[greenmachines]

I just did some more searching on Taobao and managed to find several that are tantalizingly close, but still nothing quite perfect. This one’s a black and grey herringbone with purple stripes, but they’re a much lighter purple that’s closer to pink and the overall color looks probably a little too light:
View attachment 1950136
This one’s got blue stripes but it’s a twill rather than a herringbone and definitely too light:
View attachment 1950141
This one’s a darker herringbone with blue mixed in, but blue speckles rather than stripes:
View attachment 1950142
And this one’s a rough herringbone with alternating blue and purple stripes (!!) (I believe that’s what the original fabric has) but the overall color again looks like it’ll be too light:
View attachment 1950143

For comparison, here’s the fabric I currently have, a charcoal herringbone with faint bluish undertones:
View attachment 1950145

Can you do a sunlight picture on that last one?

 

[Cameron1138]

Can you do a sunlight picture on that last one?

I'll try to next time there's some good sunlight, the next couple days are supposed to be cloudy.

 

[Cameron1138]

Here are a few, the first is in less direct sunlight and the others are in direct sunlight, one with some white fabric in the shot to help with white balance. The white-balanced photo is closest to how it looks in person.

 

[greenmachines]

Here are a few, the first is in less direct sunlight and the others are in direct sunlight, one with some white fabric in the shot to help with white balance. The white-balanced photo is closest to how it looks in person.
View attachment 1950360View attachment 1950361View attachment 1950362

OK, throw down with the full warehouse reorder information for this cloth. I am, for one, very happy with the comp shot.

 

[Cameron1138]

Not sure if they have enough in stock to mass produce these, but here's the product listing. I purchased mine through Superbuy which is the easiest way to order from Taobao outside of China.

 

[JohnHolliday]

Not sure if they have enough in stock to mass produce these, but here's the product listing. I purchased mine through Superbuy which is the easiest way to order from Taobao outside of China.

Looks like a pretty damn nice fabric I would have zero problems using this in my cloak but I can't tell how much of this fabric they have in stock?????

 

[Cameron1138]

Looks like a pretty damn nice fabric I would have zero problems using this in my cloak but I can't tell how much of this fabric they have in stock?????

I'll ask how much total stock they have, but I'll warn you the shipping for 12+ yards isn't going to be cheap even if the fabric itself is.

 

[JohnHolliday]

I'll ask how much total stock they have, but I'll warn you the shipping for 12+ yards isn't going to be cheap even if the fabric itself is.

Well considering I haven’t found anything cheap about this ENTIRE Doc Holliday project, I won’t be a be a bit surprised when I see the cost

 

[Cameron1138]

Well considering I haven’t found anything cheap about this ENTIRE Doc Holliday project, I won’t be a be a bit surprised when I see the cost

The seller asked how much you want and I said you wanted to buy in bulk and asked if they sell on Alibaba, which will be simpler to order from than Taobao. If they still want a specific quantity what should I say? 12 yards? 24?

 

[JohnHolliday]

The seller asked how much you want and I said you wanted to buy in bulk and asked if they sell on Alibaba, which will be simpler to order from than Taobao. If they still want a specific quantity what should I say? 12 yards? 24?

We think there is somewhere close to 12 yards in this cloak. Now there are some ways you can save on some fabric which I will do a post on as it all determines on how you want to build/make it.

 

[JohnHolliday]

The Doc Holliday Inverness/Ulster Coat/Cloak...........................................

I figured I would go into the detail about this cloak that Doc wears to the O.K. Corral. After searching the internet for a pattern to make this cloak I came across an old pattern made by Butterrick (3993) that closely resembles the cloak Doc wore. Is it 100%? No, but it is going to put us in the ballpark. This pattern will be heavily modified to match Doc's cloak as the coat is too short as well as the cape. Of course the pattern will also need to be altered as Doc's cloak does not have buttons on the coat, but it does on the cape. Black trim will need to be added to this cloak along with the cotton cord, wood toggle buttons and the decorative stitching/piping around the buttonholes. There will also be a black satin lining in the cloak.

Now where this cloak can differ is if one chooses to add sleeves to the coat. If you look at the drawing I posted awhile back it shows the cloak having sleeves (and also pockets which I don't think made it to the final production of the original cloak). If you look at the original photo (of the front of the cloak) on the mannequin's right side (your left), I think you can see the end of a sleeve???? Whether or not the original cloak has sleeves, my cloak will not have them. Here is why my cloak will not have sleeves; first Doc never uses the sleeves as the cloak just rest on his shoulders. Second, you can't see them and third, I want to cut down on the weight of this BIG cloak as it will be VERY HOT to wear in the summer/fall in Tombstone Arizona. Let's face it, it's already going to be pretty unbearable, so I don't think I should be adding more wood to the fire if you know what I mean? I would like to also find this fabric in what I call summer weight or at the very least a medium weight to also help on what I just covered.

If anyone else has anything to add to this it would be greatly appreciated because sometimes, I can't see the forest because of the trees

 

[Cameron1138]

I was always of the opinion that the coat didn't have sleeves until I saw the sketch you posted, and then I looked more closely at my reference images and realized you can definitely see the sleeve in this photo. I was trying to figure out why the toggle detailing wasn't visible all the way down the cape, and I realized the only way what we can see here makes sense is if the cape is folded back and we're seeing the sleeve getting pushed out to the front. I've outlined the sleeve in red, the front edge of the coat in blue, and the edge of the cape in green:

I'm still not sure if I'll put sleeves on mine either though, since I wasn't planning to when I bought the fabric and I'm not sure if I'll have enough. I got 4 meters for mine, which should at least be enough for a sleeveless version based on how much fabric I usually tend to use for a long coat (I'm pretty skinny and I don't necessarily do everything the 'right' or professional way so I can usually get away with a little less fabric).

It's hard to tell for sure on the screen-used version but both the coats we've seen in auction photos do have buttons too. This one (definitely not screen-used as it only has one toggle on the cape, at the top) has a button near the bottom of the cape, and I can make out what appears to be another buttonhole on the opposite side near the middle:

And on this one, which might be the screen-used version, I can see a buttonhole at the top under the collar and what looks like another in between the top button on this coat and the bottom button we could see on the other:

So I think it's probably got three buttons, but they're very small for a coat like this and spaced pretty far apart. I'm still debating whether to use accurately sized and placed buttons on mine or to make them larger and use 5 or 6 like this sort of coat would normally have.

 

[JohnHolliday]

I was always of the opinion that the coat didn't have sleeves until I saw the sketch you posted, and then I looked more closely at my reference images and realized you can definitely see the sleeve in this photo. I was trying to figure out why the toggle detailing wasn't visible all the way down the cape, and I realized the only way what we can see here makes sense is if the cape is folded back and we're seeing the sleeve getting pushed out to the front. I've outlined the sleeve in red, the front edge of the coat in blue, and the edge of the cape in green:
View attachment 1951120

I'm still not sure if I'll put sleeves on mine either though, since I wasn't planning to when I bought the fabric and I'm not sure if I'll have enough. I got 4 meters for mine, which should at least be enough for a sleeveless version based on how much fabric I usually tend to use for a long coat (I'm pretty skinny and I don't necessarily do everything the 'right' or professional way so I can usually get away with a little less fabric).

It's hard to tell for sure on the screen-used version but both the coats we've seen in auction photos do have buttons too. This one (definitely not screen-used as it only has one toggle on the cape, at the top) has a button near the bottom of the cape, and I can make out what appears to be another buttonhole on the opposite side near the middle: View attachment 1951124

And on this one, which might be the screen-used version, I can see a buttonhole at the top under the collar and what looks like another in between the top button on this coat and the bottom button we could see on the other:
View attachment 1951125
So I think it's probably got three buttons, but they're very small for a coat like this and spaced pretty far apart. I'm still debating whether to use accurately sized and placed buttons on mine or to make them larger and use 5 or 6 like this sort of coat would normally have.

Okay, here is my observation on this. What you are referring to as the sleeve is actually the backside of the cape as it has a sheen to it matching the lining of the entire cloak. If it were a sleeve, one would assume it would be made of the same fabric as the cloak. To me this looks like the back of the cape has been brought up and got caught between the front of the coat and the opening of the cape.

As for the cloak that is in the photo with the vest we are trying to recreate, I am 99.9 % sure this was an alternate cloak. I know first-hand several things were made, and certain ones were chosen to be used in the movie. This cloak is not as elaborate as the one used in the movie. If you look real closely at cloak number two you will notice a few things. First off, Doc never had a collared shirt like that (all of Val's collars were wing tip collars). Second, Doc never wore those pants in the movie. Third, the hat is just one that they had picked out as a possibility for Val to wear but chose to go with a different one (thank God). Obviously, Val never wore those boots as they are very close to the Curly Bill boots. I truly think the ONLY things in this photo that were used in the movie are the vest and the cravat, everything else was just a possibility but just didn't make the cut.

 

[Cameron1138]

Okay, here is my observation on this. What you are referring to as the sleeve is actually the backside of the cape as it has a sheen to it matching the lining of the entire cloak. If it were a sleeve, one would assume it would be made of the same fabric as the cloak. To me this looks like the back of the cape has been brought up and got caught between the front of the coat and the opening of the cape.

As for the cloak that is in the photo with the vest we are trying to recreate, I am 99.9 % sure this was an alternate cloak. I know first-hand several things were made, and certain ones were chosen to be used in the movie. This cloak is not as elaborate as the one used in the movie. If you look real closely at cloak number two you will notice a few things. First off, Doc never had a collared shirt like that (all of Val's collars were wing tip collars). Second, Doc never wore those pants in the movie. Third, the hat is just one that they had picked out as a possibility for Val to wear but chose to go with a different one (thank God). Obviously, Val never wore those boots as they are very close to the Curly Bill boots. I truly think the ONLY things in this photo that were used in the movie are the vest and the cravat, everything else was just a possibility but just didn't make the cut.

Hmm, you might be right about the 'sleeve', I initially thought it was the same material as the rest of the coat but looking again it does look slightly shinier and like the fabric is creasing differently at the bottom edge which makes me think it could be a lighter weight fabric.

 

[greenmachines]

The Val photo, definitely has an extra coat. Great demo with the lines JohnHolliday .

The part that made it difficult for me was the last manny photo was displayed in such a way as to make it look like the cape WAS sleeves because it has been tucked purposely to wrap around the wrists. But, no actual suit jacket is present in the manny photo:

But, it does make it clear to me (sorry for coming to this party so late) that the long overcoat has armholes. The manny arms are through the long coat but under the cape, yes?

If the outfit at the bottom has all the same pieces as Val's photo..... I am right back to no sleeves unless they are completey hidden in the manny photo.

 

[Cameron1138]

The Val photo, definitely has an extra coat. Great demo with the lines JohnHolliday .

The part that made it difficult for me was the last manny photo was displayed in such a way as to make it look like the cape WAS sleeves because it has been tucked purposely to wrap around the wrists. But, no actual suit jacket is present in the manny photo:

View attachment 1951422

But, it does make it clear to me (sorry for coming to this party so late) that the long overcoat has armholes. The manny arms are through the long coat but under the cape, yes?

If the outfit at the bottom has all the same pieces as Val's photo..... I am right back to no sleeves unless they are completey hidden in the manny photo.

Yeah, a coat without sleeves would still have an under-layer underneath the cape with armholes, like this:

I'm leaning towards no sleeves now too.

 

[JohnHolliday]

I will take some more in-depth photos of the cloak I have as it doesn't have sleeves. I just don't really see the point in having any sleeves on this cloak as I have mentioned before, I'm not even sure Val's cloak had them. I can also say with pretty good certainty that Doc's coat under the cape does not have any pockets. I say this because in the drawing of the cloak they show pockets as well as sleeves on the cloak.

 

[JohnHolliday]

If you look at the photo I just posted, look at the right side of the cloak (our left) and you will notice an optical illusion of the cloak having a sleeve as it looks like one is poking out at the bottom of the cape. I think this can be said the same for the photo of the Original Cloak Photo as well as it pretty much looks the same, or at least in my book it does............................

 

[greenmachines]

If you look at the photo I just posted, look at the right side of the cloak (our left) and you will notice an optical illusion of the cloak having a sleeve as it looks like one is poking out at the bottom of the cape. I think this can be said the same for the photo of the Original Cloak Photo as well as it pretty much looks the same, or at least in my book it does............................

I agree. Looking at it again it looks like a fold of cape coming from side of shoulder and protruding from underneath. In this non voting scenario, I vote sleeveless.