Nobody said Enid was planted there by the Wolves from the beginning. She very easily could have snuck out recently (as we've seen her do) and was taken, bargained for her life promising access to a community (Alexandria). JSS.
The Walking Dead - Season 6 Discussion
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CB2001
Master Member
Again, you're making assumptions where there are none. The woman tied to the tree and left to die had a fresh W carved in her forehead (only one, no scar of a previous one), therefore, not a member of the Wolves. The man in the orange poncho had no W carved in his forehead until after he died, therefore, not a previous member of the Wolves. Enid, not W on her forehead, therefore, not a Wolf. Everyone who is a member of the Wolves have a W scar on their forehead (even one of them, after killing someone took their blood and traced the W over the scar on their forehead).
Though they never specify how long Noah was away from his community, it doesn't mean that the Wolves sent in a spy and waited around for eight months, doing nothing but killing people they come across until they find a bunch of photos of Noah's community and think, "Oh, hey, we forgot we had a spy in this place! Let's go attack it now!"
Again, you avoid my question: What do they need to learn in eight months that couldn't have been learned in two to three weeks about Alexandra if they had a spy in there?
And yet she gave the keys to Carl, not to one of the Wolves, saying she didn't want them to have it.
An intentional foreshadow of the conflict coming with the Wolves (hence the words "Wolf Fight" for the advertisement on the back of the comic) by the producers of the show.
Already answered: She doesn't feel comfortable in the walls, and feels like she belongs outside of them. Carl went over the wall after her. Nicholas also went over the wall. We've seen him jump the wall a couple of times. Haven't heard any argument about them being spies for the Wolves yet.
Nothing is shown that she isn't anything else but. So far, we've seen her traumatized by the death of her parents, wandering alone by herself, eating a turtle and then ending up at Alexandra, where she almost turned and walked away because she was scared of finding someplace to belong and losing again (even the actress who played her admitted that she doesn't feel comfortable with Alexandra because she didn't want a place where she felt like she belonged, like how she belonged with her parents, only to lose it). And when inside, she doesn't seem like she's fitting in. Carol made a better spy because she was putting up a false front in order to fit in and gather intel for the group.
Only shows how much in sync her and Carl are. It is not an admittance of guilt nor proof that she was going to admit to anything. And I'm sure you've cut off your fair share of people you know very well as they were saying something, because you knew what they were going to say to the point where you finished their sentence.
She takes position back to back with Carl in his house. That counts as defending against the Wolves. Just because we don't see her running and jumping on a Wolf's back and stabbing him/her to death doesn't mean her helping Carl protect his house, with his baby sister, doesn't count.
In which scene does she express such guilt? I didn't see anything that suggested that. She comes to Carl's house to say goodbye and leave the keys. She stays to help him defend against any Wolves that break in (stays inside when Carl heads out because she knows he can handle himself and that someone needed to defend the house to keep Judith safe), and then afterwards, she leaves a note and disappears.
Rick and Company didn't feel apart of the Alexandria group either, even after being allowed in. It's a sign that both the group, and Enid, had been outside those walls for a while and become accustomed to the world, and that they can't fit in with the community because of how much "how it used to be" they were. It's the very thing that Bob was trying to warn Rick about, about being outside for too long (or as Claimer Joe put it, "there's nothing sadder than an outdoor cat trying to be an indoor cat").
Actually, it's "just survive somehow." Again, not an admittance to being with the Wolves ( if she were, there would have been a scene showing her encountering them during the lead up. Yet, that was not the case. In fact, her lead up to her arrival at Alexandra reminded me of Bob's backstory, where we see him wondering alone by himself until he was found by Daryl and Glenn).
Wouldn't be the first time. Besides, there's one important detail that needs to be brought up: The Wolves are so freakin' nuts, they don't seem to have anyone sane enough in their group to be a leader, let alone come up with the idea of sending a spy into a community for any amount of time to gather intel. Seriously, from last night, name one of those Wolves that looked like they were organized, as if following a plan, or even sane enough to do so? Every single one of them we've seen were bat-crap crazy, including the one that Morgan ran into again. It makes more sense they found the photos from Aaron's pack, found Alexandra a few days later, saw Rick and most of the more capable fighters leave and then targeted whoever was left because they thought all the people capable of putting of a fight were gone (invoking the Sand Creek massacre, which I wouldn't be surprised was the inspiration for the Wolf Morgan encountered again), than it is to believe they sent in a spy months ago, found pictures in Aaron's pack and then remembered they had a spy in the community that they completely forgot about. Also, if there was a spy, then why didn't they know where the armory was? When Carol, decked in the outfit she took off of the Wolf she killed, pulled out her gun, the one Wolf said, "Hey, Aphid, where'd you get the gun?" just moments prior to Carol shooting him. Not only that, Carol points out from the get-go that they didn't have any guns, and if they did they'd be using them. Any spy who had been in there, be it two weeks or eight months, would have found out where the armory was, as it would have been one of the first primary designated targets, wouldn't they? That just goes to show how nuts that Wolves are: they're so focused on killing people, they don't even think about trying to find the armory, so they could get the guns to use against people. They come off as not really being sane enough to be well-organized (certainly not in a Hannibal Lector/serial killer kind of way either).
And, again, the Wolves didn't know about Alexandra until they found Aaron's pack. It was days between the ending of Season 5 and the start of Season 6. That's a really short time for any kind of significant spying to be done according to Monkey67.
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Celtic007
Sr Member
Carl needs a haircut! He should go to his friend's mom. :lolI hope she isn't a spy... Carl needs a girlfriend!
CB2001
Master Member
You know, I'm surprised no one has said this... Carl STILL didn't stay in the house. :lol
Monkey67
Sr Member
3 weeks vs. 8 month is trust..stated a few times.
I'm thinking you just got a super hard on for Enid and dont want to even believe she could be bad in any way. Or you simple need full blow proof that some thing isn't right. Everyone isn't going to wear a W on their foreheads. They have a leader and he is crazy, yet kinda smart. He gets people to do his bidding..even towns. If you are gonna attack anything in this world..wouldn't you use the dumbest / easiest control members of your group 1st? Always use the grunts 1st, let them deal with any mess at hand. You can watch and learn where you need to attack with better control tactics. Fight smarter not harder.
Its just my point of view on if someone maybe a inside person..I'm putting my chips on her.
i gotta get back to work, it's a show man. You Don't have to think so hard, just enjoy it for what it is. Rick & Carl trying to survive in a crazy world with special guests n friends.
I'm thinking you just got a super hard on for Enid and dont want to even believe she could be bad in any way. Or you simple need full blow proof that some thing isn't right. Everyone isn't going to wear a W on their foreheads. They have a leader and he is crazy, yet kinda smart. He gets people to do his bidding..even towns. If you are gonna attack anything in this world..wouldn't you use the dumbest / easiest control members of your group 1st? Always use the grunts 1st, let them deal with any mess at hand. You can watch and learn where you need to attack with better control tactics. Fight smarter not harder.
Its just my point of view on if someone maybe a inside person..I'm putting my chips on her.
i gotta get back to work, it's a show man. You Don't have to think so hard, just enjoy it for what it is. Rick & Carl trying to survive in a crazy world with special guests n friends.
CB2001
Master Member
No, I don't have a hard-on for Enid (gross, BTW. Isn't she 13 or something?), I just have a good understanding of storytelling and filmmaking, which is how you use visual and audio clues to help tell the story (which includes a character's actions and how the actor/actress portrays them) to convey a sense of feeling you want the audience to have (for example, right off the bat, you knew something was going on with Gabriel, long we discovered his "sin" of allowing his flock to die. It comes off in his performance in the very first time we meet him. You feel unsure about him, just as much as Rick and Company felt unsure about him when they first meet him. And you didn't even need to read the comics to have that uneasy feeling about him from the start). And I'm more than willing to admit that I'm wrong if it turns out to be the case. But, I'll agree to disagree with you on this topic man. It's only a show. Now, I'm just going to leave this here, and let's just leave it at that:
Additional Note: BTW, you forgot one important thing thing in your final description....
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annanake
Sr Member
Well, we didn't see the ground, so we don't know if there was any blood around that area. Plus, there's a good chance that the Wolf they sent over the wall used a knife to slit the gate guard's throat and then was dragged off before it completely bled out (as they were all armed with blade weapons and were dragging bodies out into the road). Another possibility as to why the gate was open and unguarded: the guard at the gate was the woman that got stabbed in the gut and taken to Denise (the one in the yellow shirt that was rescued by Aaron and Rosita, the one who died on the stretcher), and that the gate was hanging open because Deanna went out to check on her only living son, the guy at the tower, while all hell was breaking loose inside the community. This seems more likely just thinking back to the episode. When we first see him attempting to snipe the Wolves, it's in direction of the road that leads to the front gate (a similar POV we've seen from Sasha when she spotted people running towards the fight between Rick and Pete).[/QUOTE]
if any of that happened then why is there not a 2 second shot of any of it. instead of her just pulling the gate open( like she knew it would be unlocked and unguarded because it always is.) and a seeing blood or a body of going hmm why is the gate unlocked hmm why is nobody around hmm. or if she is the spy walking over a corpse or blood like she didn't care instead she just pulls it open and goes in. and if the sniper was already shooting at people as they come in the front I didn't see her involved with any of that mess ( I presume because it happened later) .
again the way it was filmed it leads you to believe the attack started with the Molotov cocktail and they then rushed in through that weak part of the fence as you hear them talking about expanding it and there was a what looked to be open areas hence the dude on top as a lookout they then attack with the truck to attempt to break down the wall, why if they already snuck in . hell if there going in all stealthy why not at 3 in the morning proper ninja status
if any of that happened then why is there not a 2 second shot of any of it. instead of her just pulling the gate open( like she knew it would be unlocked and unguarded because it always is.) and a seeing blood or a body of going hmm why is the gate unlocked hmm why is nobody around hmm. or if she is the spy walking over a corpse or blood like she didn't care instead she just pulls it open and goes in. and if the sniper was already shooting at people as they come in the front I didn't see her involved with any of that mess ( I presume because it happened later) .
again the way it was filmed it leads you to believe the attack started with the Molotov cocktail and they then rushed in through that weak part of the fence as you hear them talking about expanding it and there was a what looked to be open areas hence the dude on top as a lookout they then attack with the truck to attempt to break down the wall, why if they already snuck in . hell if there going in all stealthy why not at 3 in the morning proper ninja status
CB2001
Master Member
if any of that happened then why is there not a 2 second shot of any of it. instead of her just pulling the gate open( like she knew it would be unlocked and unguarded because it always is.) and a seeing blood or a body of going hmm why is the gate unlocked hmm why is nobody around hmm. or if she is the spy walking over a corpse or blood like she didn't care instead she just pulls it open and goes in. and if the sniper was already shooting at people as they come in the front I didn't see her involved with any of that mess ( I presume because it happened later) .
again the way it was filmed it leads you to believe the attack started with the Molotov cocktail and they then rushed in through that weak part of the fence as you hear them talking about expanding it and there was a what looked to be open areas hence the dude on top as a lookout they then attack with the truck to attempt to break down the wall, why if they already snuck in . hell if there going in all stealthy why not at 3 in the morning proper ninja status[/QUOTE]
Why is there not a two second shot of any of it? Because the producers and writers wanted the attacks to be a surprise.. And the attack didn't start with the Molotov, it started off screen until it became on screen with the attack on the Noodle Machine Woman (it may have been her screams may have been one that Deanna and Maggie hears, or maybe another persons). The guy on the fence may have been one of the first few to die, not the first.
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Monkey67
Sr Member
Just remember the dude sniping isn't Sasha. So he is not likely paying attention as much as he should. For all we know he wasn't even watching the gate / area until screams rang out. Once crap hit the fan inside the fence. He jumped up to his post to fight. There is a lot of grey area missing that wasn't shown. We will all get answers as the show moves along.
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Clutch
Master Member
annanake
Sr Member
Why is there not a two second shot of any of it? Because the producers and writers wanted the attacks to be a surprise.. And the attack didn't start with the Molotov, it started off screen until it became on screen with the attack on the Noodle Machine Woman (it may have been her screams may have been one that Deanna and Maggie hears, or maybe another persons). The guy on the fence may have been one of the first few to die, not the first.[/QUOTE]
maybe im wrong but I remember the Molotov happing first and then we see carol look out the window to see the pasta lady get killed . and still doesn't explain why if they are already in the compound why they need to knock down a wall with a semi. or why when she just walks in the gate has no reaction to it being both open and unguarded unless of course she is a spy, which people were saying the pictures prove and I just saw as the gay dude findin which told him his boyfriend was dead or missing. and im gonna go with internet logic
No pics , it didn't happen .
annanake
Sr Member
and the writers and producers did get a surprise attack I don't think the dude on the fence woke up in the morning expecting a Molotov cocktail to the face for breakfast.
at least a bunch of nameless, faceless, useless towns folk got murdered . more canned celery for our heroes . whoo hoo
at least a bunch of nameless, faceless, useless towns folk got murdered . more canned celery for our heroes . whoo hoo
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I think they were driving that truck in to knock down the gates so walkers could get in. Walkers can't climb walls. Also, that truck was the same kind as those in that shipping yard where they had that "walker trap" with all the walkers in the back of them. I wonder if that truck could have been filled with walkers. Crash in the gate, let them lose
As far as those pictures, those were Aaron's. He was visibly shaken when seeing them because he knew that if he had not left that bag in that car they would not have found the pictures and therefore probably to found the town. i.e. he was so guilt stricken for being the cause of the attack
Riceball
Master Member
@CB2001 Although I'm with you in that Enid was not the spy, there are a couple of flaws in your argument against her being the spy.
The W on the forehead being one of them, what kind of spy would Enid be is she had a big W carved into her forehead telling everybody who meets her that she's a Wolf? Sure, she could have a story ready about how she escaped and all but regardless, that W is naturally going to make people suspicious and not trust her. The counter to that is that after time they would trust her, W or no W, but the moment they see her sneaking out or something goes wrong, guess who looks bad real fast?
Her telling Carl that she just doesn't feel comfortable/safe in Alexandria does not mean she's not the spy. What's she supposed to say to Carl, "I'm getting out of here because I'm a spy for the Wolves and my job here is done."?
The W on the forehead being one of them, what kind of spy would Enid be is she had a big W carved into her forehead telling everybody who meets her that she's a Wolf? Sure, she could have a story ready about how she escaped and all but regardless, that W is naturally going to make people suspicious and not trust her. The counter to that is that after time they would trust her, W or no W, but the moment they see her sneaking out or something goes wrong, guess who looks bad real fast?
Her telling Carl that she just doesn't feel comfortable/safe in Alexandria does not mean she's not the spy. What's she supposed to say to Carl, "I'm getting out of here because I'm a spy for the Wolves and my job here is done."?
annanake
Sr Member
right I got the whole zombie filled truck yet again why not drive it through an open gate then ram a fence ? and they are releasing walkers into the compound while there people are inside ? the more we dissect it the crapper the plan seems . and it still seems to me they attacked that weak point in the fence where they were expanding which is the reason they attacked at that particular time and place time . oh I forgot about Aaron leaving the bag I just knew it didn't prove a spy was among them .and I am told I am wrong about the smoker death/Molotov cocktail attack order of events . at this point I am willing to believe that one of the wolves jumped over the gate killed a guard hid then body then Enid wondered through noticing nothing wrong with the gate being open and unattended then with the wolves breaching the gate plan being a complete success they completely ignored the open and unguarded front gate and tried to fit a semi truck through a crack in the fence . cuz there all really really stupid.
CB2001
Master Member
Hopefully, this will clear up any confusion to those who aren't near their DVR. The video is missing the initial setup with Carol, so I'll detail those first few shots and then the video covers the rest of how things go:
1. Long shot of Carol finishes her casserole by sprinkling spice (?) onto it, picks it tup, turns to put it in the oven. She turns back to the counter, moving an item out of the way.
2. Insert shot of Carol's hands as she sets the timer for 45 minutes, the timer next to the baby monitor.
3. Back to long shot of Carol, her spotting something out the window. She moves over to see, the camera following her.
4. Carol's POV of Ms. Noodle Maker standing outside smoking (this is probably harking back to Carol's earlier conversation with her about not smoking in the house, or that smoking would kill her).
5. Cuts back to a medium shot of Carol that closes in on her, with her still looking out the window at Ms. Noodle Maker.
(Here's where this video starts from. Note, this video has foreign dubbing, but you can still sort of hear the original audio underneath)
After that, the next cut just goes back to the house with Carol and Carl, showing Carl coming around the top of the stairs to tell Carol what he sees.
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