The Walking Dead Season 3

[knightdriver2001]

If I were Rick, I'd would have shot Andrea the moment I walked out of the
meeting.

She must have given the governor a LOT of information about the people
at the prison. The governor knew all about the baby, Ricks wife and Shane
sleeping her behind Ricks back.

She also probably blabbed at how many of them there actually are at the prison.

I'd off her so fast she couldn't have time to pleed for mercy! :angry

 

[PAPA PRUT]

Re: Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

What kills me is the LACK of proper planning on the prison part. I mean NO defensive perimeter or objects, no armored up areas where people can "nest" with little worry of getting shot, how the HELL did that guy from town get into the prison tower without being spotted? No traps , you can't tell me Daryl doesn't know at least 50 different ways to set nearly invisible fatal or near fatal traps.

Seriously HUGE problems with the story IMHO. The FIRST item on the agenda when they took the prison should have been defensive posture, then food and water.

Oh, and Andrea MUST die soon, I can not STAND her any more. To the point where if she has any more than a bit part in the episode I play angry birds until she is off screen.

The only issue with setting up traps etc, is that the Gov has people watching the prison. They would know exactly what they were up to. Setting up traps prior would have been the way to go, but they really didn't have a need. I mean, if I was in a prison, i would just assume being behind concrete and steel would be enough protection for me.

 

[Feraud]

If I were Rick, I'd would have shot Andrea the moment I walked out of the
meeting.

She must have given the governor a LOT of information about the people
at the prison. The governor knew all about the baby, Ricks wife and Shane
sleeping her behind Ricks back.

She also probably blabbed at how many of them there actually are at the prison.

I'd off her so fast she couldn't have time to pleed for mercy! :angry

This fact about Andrea really pisses me off! :angry

 

[Sir Angus]

If you're referring to what would be called a fuller on a western sword you're info is wrong. Everything I've read says that the fuller was a means of reducing the weight of the blade without sacrificing much, if any, blade strength. Also, I'm no expert on katanas but I can't recall ever seeing one with a fuller, I seem to recall all katanas, no-dachis, and tahis as having fullerless blades.

Here's the info on a katana with fullers: Japanese swordsmithing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite the citation in wikipedia which is about knives, the "blood groove" mythology still seems quite muddy. When I was taught the sword thats how my sensei described it, and has since been re-inforced by people I respect as knowledgeable in this area.

Until I see definitive proof, I respectfully agree to disagree.

As to the curvature, where did you read that it was the forging process that cause the curve? I've never heard that one before, I always believed that it was an intentional part of the katanas design to give it better cutting power much like scimitars and sabers are curved in order to cut better.

I've been doing blacksmithing for about 20yrs. From experience, when you hammer forge a blade they always curve. (I've only made knives and such not swords and certainly never tried the more complicated layering methods.) However, I'm not an expert just a hobbyist and don't have helpful forge monkeys. You can correct curving, however the Japanese swordsmiths found it to be beneficial ... Also see below.

The curvature is partially defined by the smith and during the hardening process when the sword is cooled by water or oil, the steel changes from Austenit crystal grid to Martensit Diffusionless transformation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, the underside of the sword expands and the upper shortens, therefor the curvature of the sword is caused.

Thanks YenChih Lin! You beat me to the response. I appreciate the assist.

 

[Sir Angus]

The only issue with setting up traps etc, is that the Gov has people watching the prison. They would know exactly what they were up to. Setting up traps prior would have been the way to go, but they really didn't have a need. I mean, if I was in a prison, i would just assume being behind concrete and steel would be enough protection for me.

This was a great episode and I was only sorta bothered by Andrea ...

I think what madmikeee meant was that they should've secured their perimeter right after they cleared the prison. Instead they spent a lot of time screwing off and getting people killed. Afterall, they didn't even realize there's a big fraking hole in the fence until Tyreese shows up! :facepalm

 

[PAPA PRUT]

Re: Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

This was a great episode and I was only sorta bothered by Andrea ...

I think what madmikeee meant was that they should've secured their perimeter right after they cleared the prison. Instead they spent a lot of time screwing off and getting people killed. Afterall, they didn't even realize there's a big fraking hole in the fence until Tyreese shows up! :facepalm

I gotcha. And i agree with that. I guess I would have tried to search every part of the prison if I could. And the perimeter would be one of the first things I did. And yeah, Andrea... WTF! Let's just tell him every single minute detail. Because that helps how? She needs to have a big turn around moment, and soon

 

[Shendorion]

The Governor has twentysomething able bodied adults, not counting teenagers. That's according to Milton's report a few episodes ago, and accounting for Tyrese and his three companions. That assumes that everyone in Woodbury who can participate in the siege agrees to do so.

The teasers suggest that he's more likely to have resistance and desertion than full participation if he musters for an assault on the prison.

 

[crabra comander]

This season is relying heavily on Andrea's character to make something happen. She's going to have to make a choice. Something she hasn't done.

 

[Gary Weaver II]

I've gotta check out my old comics to be sure, but did they ever completely clear out the prison before the Gov attacked?

That's been the one thing that's bothered me this entire season. The prison is NOT secure - ala Team Tyreese just walking in through a hole in the wall...

I understand that they only have so much "set" built, but damn... walk around the perimeter or roof and scope that thing out.

-Gary

 

[PAPA PRUT]

I guess they technically secured themselves from the other parts of the prison by locking off all cell blocks. By doing that they guarantee no walker getting to them. But they did not secure the outside which keeps allowing the walkers/people to just waltz right in. Walkers, along with just your average person may not be able to get through the gates, but with enough fire power, you could blow right through. And i am not referring to the outer fences. But the barred gates/doors inside.

 

[Riceball]

Here's the info on a katana with fullers: Japanese swordsmithing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite the citation in wikipedia which is about knives, the "blood groove" mythology still seems quite muddy. When I was taught the sword thats how my sensei described it, and has since been re-inforced by people I respect as knowledgeable in this area.

The citation in Wikipedia about fullers says it applies to both swords as well as knives and everything I've read backs up what's in Wikipedia that its function is to both lighten and strengthen the blade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuller_(weapon)

Since Wikipedia isn't always a trusted resource here's a citation from "How Stuff Works"

Fuller - Often called the blood groove or gutter, the fuller is a narrow groove that runs most of the length of many swords. Most people believe that it is there to allow the blade to be easily removed by blood escaping through the channel, thereby reducing suction. Contrary to popular belief, the fuller is not a channel for blood to run along. The actual reason for the fuller is to decrease the weight of the blade without diminishing the strength. Use of a fuller allows a bladesmith to use less material to comprise the blade, making it lighter without sacrificing too much structural integrity. This is similar to the use of an I-beam when building a skyscraper.

HowStuffWorks "How Sword Making Works"

Here's an article that details the math/physics behind the fuller.

Bloodgrooves

A point that was made in discussing fullers on Japanese swords specifically point that the fullers on katanas don't run the full length of the blad and stop well short of the tip so it wouldn't be of much use as a blood groove. Furthermore, there are examples of Western swords that have little to no point and are thus designed as cutting weapons yet they also have fullers, which, if they were indeed blood grooves that would make them about as useful as teats on a boar.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-15947.html

If that's not enough to convince you that a fullers function is not that of a blood groove then I guess we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree. with each other.

 

[Astrokid248]

Re: Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

The citation in Wikipedia about fullers says it applies to both swords as well as knives and everything I've read backs up what's in Wikipedia that its function is to both lighten and strengthen the blade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuller_(weapon)

Since Wikipedia isn't always a trusted resource here's a citation from "How Stuff Works"
HowStuffWorks "How Sword Making Works"

Here's an article that details the math/physics behind the fuller.

Bloodgrooves

A point that was made in discussing fullers on Japanese swords specifically point that the fullers on katanas don't run the full length of the blad and stop well short of the tip so it wouldn't be of much use as a blood groove. Furthermore, there are examples of Western swords that have little to no point and are thus designed as cutting weapons yet they also have fullers, which, if they were indeed blood grooves that would make them about as useful as teats on a boar.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-15947.html

If that's not enough to convince you that a fullers function is not that of a blood groove then I guess we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree. with each other.

You two are circling each other like sword-wielding sharks. Sum up of why you guys actually agree:
- You said that blood grooves are a myth, and that the correct term is fuller. But then you said you've never seen a fuller on a katana
- he said fullers do exist on katanas, but blood grooves are still a myth
- you've pointed out that the fullers never reach to the portion of the blade meant for stabbing, compounding just how silly this blood groove myth is but agreeing that, okay, katanas do have fullers
Can we all just agree that if you feel like using a katana or any similar longsword-type weapon, you should just swing it, and if you want to stab get a weapon specifically designed for stabbing or learn the correct katas/forms?

 

[YenChih Lin]

Thanks YenChih Lin! You beat me to the response. I appreciate the assist.

Ahh that's nothing, just my humble knowledge about everything and anything I read :$

reagding the blood groove: it's an incorrect term for the fuller, which as mentioned here, lightens the sword, yet retaining stability. On a Katana it's called "Hi"
Fuller (weapon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the cutaway looks like this, the Bo-Hi is on the far right:

Here you can see that swordsmith Master Sadatoashi, one of the real living legends made it with the fuller SADATOSHI KATANA

 

[Kerr Avon]

I guess they technically secured themselves from the other parts of the prison by locking off all cell blocks. By doing that they guarantee no walker getting to them. But they did not secure the outside which keeps allowing the walkers/people to just waltz right in. Walkers, along with just your average person may not be able to get through the gates, but with enough fire power, you could blow right through. And i am not referring to the outer fences. But the barred gates/doors inside.

It's been a while since I read those issues, but as I recall, there wasn't a big section of the prison fencing down like there is in the show. It was essentially secure through the entire perimeter.

 

[Sir Angus]

The ongoing sword discussion - Far be it for me to state that TV or the internet can be wrong. I'm also not arguing the merits of a fuller on western european blades.


Yeah, if memory serves, they simply cleared/secured the one blockhouse. But in all this time haven't seemed to bother further securing the prison. IMO, that led to the ease of the last attack.

I feel a bit compelled to defend Andrea. There's no evidence that she divulged all that intel. Remember the Gov had Merle's obedience for nearly a year and we don't know what Glenn or Maggie gave up during the interrogation ... Safe bet Michonne didn't say anything. :lol

It does seem to be starting to hinge on Andrea, weird considering she's been such a lame duck this season, but she did get to do some of her lawyering before the "boys" kicked her out.

The zombie-bonding between that one guy and Darryl will come back to hurt the Gov. Merle was his strongest and most kindred spirit. This guy seems like he could flip given Rick's "family" atmosphere since he talked about zombies killing his wife and kids.

 

[YenChih Lin]

Andrea can redeem herself and I think it's been previewed in the next episode, that through Milton she will realize, what kinda man the Gov. is. I bet she'll be return to Rick's group by the season finale or die trying…

 

[madmikeee]

I've gotta check out my old comics to be sure, but did they ever completely clear out the prison before the Gov attacked?

That's been the one thing that's bothered me this entire season. The prison is NOT secure - ala Team Tyreese just walking in through a hole in the wall...

I understand that they only have so much "set" built, but damn... walk around the perimeter or roof and scope that thing out.

-Gary

In the books they did, it was a MUCH smaller prison in the books though. That was how they spent the first week or so in the prison, Sweeping, clearing and burning the bodies.

 

[PAPA PRUT]

Re: Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Andrea can redeem herself and I think it's been previewed in the next episode, that through Milton she will realize, what kinda man the Gov. is. I bet she'll be return to Rick's group by the season finale or die trying…

I think she WILL redeem herself. Whether or not it ends well for her is the question. And i think you are right about Milton. I think his morals will only be stretched so far. He has given the look of uncertainty and disapproval before, but swayed his answer to what the Gov wants to hear.

 

[YenChih Lin]

Milton is one of those, who isn't alpha, I think they are the most dangerous kind of people, if they don't stand up for what's right…

 

[Riceball]

I think that Milton is normally a kind of meek sort of person but is only willing to follow the Governor just so far before he finally grows a backbone and stands up for what he truly believes in. I suspect that for many people in Woodbury, like Andrea & Milton, even if they have their suspicions about the true nature of the Governor they manage to, unconciously, overlook and/or ignore what their gut might be telling them along with anything that doesn't quite add up with whatever he says. They simply try not to think too much about it, not ask too many questions, and simply accept him at face value because the alternative could quite possibly result in the demise of Woodbury and few, if any of the residents, are ready or relish the thought of how their lives were before Woodbury and the Governor.