'The Simpsons' in danger of being cancelled
- Thread starter Goonie
- Start date
To try to get into the Fox execs' heads (ew, it's drippy in here), I guess they're looking at the cost of new shows vs. the income they will have when they are added to the syndication package, which already has 22 years of shows in it. They might be figuring that with every episode they add to the library, its positive effect on overall earnings of the package is less than the previous one due to diminishing returns. In an industry that is happy with just 66 episodes of any show to put into syndication, they might figure they already have plenty.
But the mere fact the show is still being made makes the reruns seem more "current" and I bet that adds to the value, if, perhaps, in an way that's hard to measure.
This is the kind of bean counting that ends shows that are popular, have good ratings and are profitable. "Sure, but is it profitable ENOUGH?"
It's the kind of thinking that got Futurama cancelled the first time. It was successful, but it had been preempted by football so many times that they had a nice big pile of unaired shows, and didn't see the logic in paying for more. "We'll just order more next fiscal." Um, no, because they people who made them enjoy having meals and had to close up and move on.
But the mere fact the show is still being made makes the reruns seem more "current" and I bet that adds to the value, if, perhaps, in an way that's hard to measure.
This is the kind of bean counting that ends shows that are popular, have good ratings and are profitable. "Sure, but is it profitable ENOUGH?"
It's the kind of thinking that got Futurama cancelled the first time. It was successful, but it had been preempted by football so many times that they had a nice big pile of unaired shows, and didn't see the logic in paying for more. "We'll just order more next fiscal." Um, no, because they people who made them enjoy having meals and had to close up and move on.
Solo4114
Master Member
Don't the contracts for talent also generally increase pay with each successive year of a show? I'd imagine that even for purely voice talent, after 23 years with a pretty big cast of voice actors, it's getting pretty expensive. So the return on investment may really be diminishing at this point.
Shendorion
Well-Known Member
I didn't realize people still watched that show on purpose.
cboath
Master Member
Might wanna check that math
45% would be 3.6 a year.
So, during 22 episodes a year, are they really going to say it's not worth their time for 160k an episode??
DuneMuadDib
Sr Member
It's a cut of 45% not a cut to 45%. So yes, 45% of 8 is 3.6, but that's the number to subtract not the total number, thus $4.4 million is correct in the end.
epilepticsquirl
Sr Member
I guess I'm in the minority of those who've never watched a full episode. :unsure
MooMooEgg
Sr Member
I love the Simpsons. That is, I've loved it until around season 10. Honestly, I loved almost every episode of seasons 2-9, and a majority of 10. But at season 11, I saw that the quality was going downhill way too fast. And I can remember when I officially gave up with the series... in season 13 with the episode (ironically titled) "The Blunder Years", where Homer starts screaming uncontrollably and the family goes to try and figure out what caused the childhood trauma. Horrible stuff.
And IMHO, it kept getting worse from there. I kept watching every week, disappointingly, until maybe 17 or 18, and then only caught random episodes from there on out. None of which were very good. And god, the movie... that was atrocious.
But I can honestly say the last season or two were ok.... the episodes were watchable, but not great. However, I don't think there's any way the series can get back to the level of quality comparable to its glory years (Seasons 3-7), so I wouldn't care at all if Fox cancelled the series. The Simpsons has run its course. Let it bow out.
And does anyone remember this?
Ullman shorts, Christmas show, Marge's fling, Homer's bro
Bart in well, Flanders fails, whacking snakes, monorail
Mr. Plow, Homer space, Sideshow Bob steps on rakes
Lisa's future, Selma's hubby, Marge not proud, Homer chubby
Homer worries Bart is gay, Poochie, U2, NRA
Hippies, Vegas, and Japan, octuplets, Bart's boy band
Marge murmers, Maude croaks, Lisa Buddhist, Homer tokes
Maggie blows Burns away, what else do I have to say?
They'll never stop the Simpsons
Have no fears, we've got stories for years
Like, Marge becomes a robot
Maybe Moe gets a cell phone
Has Bart ever owned a bear?
Or how 'bout a crazy wedding?
Where something happens, and do-do-do-do-do
Sorry for the clip show
Have no fears, we've got stories for years
It may have been a joke back in season 13, but it was a pretty accurate prediction of the series' future.... :unsure
And IMHO, it kept getting worse from there. I kept watching every week, disappointingly, until maybe 17 or 18, and then only caught random episodes from there on out. None of which were very good. And god, the movie... that was atrocious.
But I can honestly say the last season or two were ok.... the episodes were watchable, but not great. However, I don't think there's any way the series can get back to the level of quality comparable to its glory years (Seasons 3-7), so I wouldn't care at all if Fox cancelled the series. The Simpsons has run its course. Let it bow out.
And does anyone remember this?
Ullman shorts, Christmas show, Marge's fling, Homer's bro
Bart in well, Flanders fails, whacking snakes, monorail
Mr. Plow, Homer space, Sideshow Bob steps on rakes
Lisa's future, Selma's hubby, Marge not proud, Homer chubby
Homer worries Bart is gay, Poochie, U2, NRA
Hippies, Vegas, and Japan, octuplets, Bart's boy band
Marge murmers, Maude croaks, Lisa Buddhist, Homer tokes
Maggie blows Burns away, what else do I have to say?
They'll never stop the Simpsons
Have no fears, we've got stories for years
Like, Marge becomes a robot
Maybe Moe gets a cell phone
Has Bart ever owned a bear?
Or how 'bout a crazy wedding?
Where something happens, and do-do-do-do-do
Sorry for the clip show
Have no fears, we've got stories for years
It may have been a joke back in season 13, but it was a pretty accurate prediction of the series' future.... :unsure
darthgordon
Sr Member
I've been watching it since it's been on the air. True, I no longer try to be home to watch an episode on Sunday night, but if I am, I'll watch it.
Everyone who says it's gone to garbage has not been watching. So your opinion is based on what you saw a few years ago. The show has actually improved quite a bit in the last few years.
The show does still remain popular worldwide.
However, that popularity is nowhere near what it once was. The ratings have dropped steadily over the years. When I was a kid, Simpsons merchandise was everywhere. Today... not so much.
Production costs have also risen as the sweatshops used in China to produce the animation and DVDs have fallen into disrepair; as they too were produced by cheap Chinese labor that lacked attention to quality.
...or at least I think it's more expensive to produce and broadcast in HD.
Either way, the amount the voice actors make is somewhat excessive for sitting in a studio, talking into a microphone. I can see Fox needing to make some cut-backs... as they've cut everything else by sending it overseas, the only thing left are the actors' salaries. Otherwise, Fox will be forced to develop 60 more TV shows that they will cancel after two episodes.
Everyone who says it's gone to garbage has not been watching. So your opinion is based on what you saw a few years ago. The show has actually improved quite a bit in the last few years.
The show does still remain popular worldwide.
However, that popularity is nowhere near what it once was. The ratings have dropped steadily over the years. When I was a kid, Simpsons merchandise was everywhere. Today... not so much.
Production costs have also risen as the sweatshops used in China to produce the animation and DVDs have fallen into disrepair; as they too were produced by cheap Chinese labor that lacked attention to quality.
...or at least I think it's more expensive to produce and broadcast in HD.
Either way, the amount the voice actors make is somewhat excessive for sitting in a studio, talking into a microphone. I can see Fox needing to make some cut-backs... as they've cut everything else by sending it overseas, the only thing left are the actors' salaries. Otherwise, Fox will be forced to develop 60 more TV shows that they will cancel after two episodes.
I really havn't watched the Simpsons in years. It really does not interest me any more - Im more into Family Guy and Futurama.
I agree another Simpsons movie should be produced to wrap it up. They certainly need to go out with a bang considering the longevity of the show,
perhaps a tw-part episode that concludes with a theatrical release?
I agree another Simpsons movie should be produced to wrap it up. They certainly need to go out with a bang considering the longevity of the show,
perhaps a tw-part episode that concludes with a theatrical release?
TheDoctor
Sr Member
I couldn't believe it when this was actually an episode!!!!
Anyway... I don't see what all the fuss is about. I think the Simpsons is great!
Sure it's not as good as it once was, but it's still a damn fine show... and better than Family Guy (except for the occasional Stewie/Brian episode), Cleveland Show, American Dad, and that awful, awful, AWFUL, Bob's Burgers. I think Bob's Burgers came out of a meeting where people sat around and said "Hey, I bet we can come up with a show WORSE than Cleveland Show!!" Mission Accomplished. It was actually painful to just know that show was on the air.
Maybe they should just move it from the Sunday Night crap block...
Riv
Well-Known Member
I think the moment I realized there was no point in religiously tuning in was after this exchange in the episode where they killed Maude Flanders:
Bart: Do you even have a job anymore?
Homer: I think it's pretty obvious that I don't.
The meta reference to the fact that they hadn't done an episode around Homer, the power plant, or anything related to it (no Mr. Burns!) in seemingly years would in previous seasons have been funny. But instead, it was just a painful reminder of the fact that they had simply run out of ideas related to subjects that previously offered some of the best stories.
And that made me more sensitive to the fact that there was no longer any real sense to any of the episodes- it was just "what wacky thing happens to the family this week?" No one goes to school, or work- just inexplicable things happen and supposed hilarity ensues (or doesn't).
At some point, the show HAS to end. Nothing lasts forever, for better or worse. Why not now?
Bart: Do you even have a job anymore?
Homer: I think it's pretty obvious that I don't.
The meta reference to the fact that they hadn't done an episode around Homer, the power plant, or anything related to it (no Mr. Burns!) in seemingly years would in previous seasons have been funny. But instead, it was just a painful reminder of the fact that they had simply run out of ideas related to subjects that previously offered some of the best stories.
And that made me more sensitive to the fact that there was no longer any real sense to any of the episodes- it was just "what wacky thing happens to the family this week?" No one goes to school, or work- just inexplicable things happen and supposed hilarity ensues (or doesn't).
At some point, the show HAS to end. Nothing lasts forever, for better or worse. Why not now?
freakazoid
New Member
I remember years ago when they were doing that non stop. Some shows with good ideas that they killed.
I think what they need to do is what some of them mentioned on a DVD in the commentaries, creating a show that is about the town of Springfield, not just the Simpsons family. They mentioned it in the episode where they actually had like 3 different stories involving different people.
Jannix Quinn
Sr Member
The downfall was when they made Homer TOO stupid. He shouldn't even be alive.
^I'm amazed they didn't do a joke about here where he forgot to breath or something for an entire episode. He did seem to get dumber as the series went on. I honestly think that they should have started letting the kids grow up as the series got on in the seasons, having them get older would have made for some more storylines maybe. Especially if Maggie grew up. It's the same issue with a lot of these shows including Family guy, they never let the kids grow up.
As opposed to the mucky mucks who write their paychecks, who do nothing but take meetings all day?
The franchise makes X dollars. The people who make it possible deserve Y share.
Let's say I make a widget that, for whatever reason, millions of people like. There are other widgets, but the ones that sell are mine, and no one else can make a Treadwell Widget. A "Mister Suit" markets them for me and the venture makes a profit of eleventy kazillion dollars. And sure, let's say I can make them very easily. So what? I'd better be getting a sizable portion of that eleventy kazillion. "But all you do is XYZ and your widget's done! It's rather excessive to pay you kazillions of dollars for something that requires so little effort." So you want to cap me at a flat rate that amounts to a minor percentage, and let Mister Suit continue to increase his take? I don't think so.
This is why I also take umbrage to complaints about the so-called "greed" of professional athletes. The professional sports franchises make BANK. The people who make it possible deserve their share.
Treadwell,
The producers AND main voice cast of The Simpsons are millionaires many times over!
NONE of these people need the money!
(Sorry, but even before the lousy economy hit, I have very little sympathy when I read a story where a millionaire cries and says he's not getting paid enough cash... Inject sports figures and celebrities into this story and I have no sympathy for their situation whatsoever.)
Repeat after me --- there are at least 6 voice actors on this series making 8 million dollars a piece bank doing 22 ****ing shows a year! That's far more than any other voice cast (of an animated series) I'm aware of in TV history and still damn good by the standards of the Law & Order shows and most other network dramas, period.
The people who do the grunt work behind the scenes -- storyboard, layout, character design, audio engineers, overseas ink and paint and final animation --- don't get paid anything like $100,000 let alone a million dollars a year!
An American animation pro might earn $50,000-$70,000. His overseas counterpart will earn a fraction (half or less) that! Guess what? The working stiffs don't expect to get backend from The Simpsons or become millionaires in the process. It's just not in the game and it's unrealistic to expect that.
The Simpsons is long past its peak creativity. The tepid motion picture nailed that point down hard if some of us still didn't understand that by the fifth, sixth year of crummy seasons in a row.
Fox doesn't have to produce more episodes of this series to make syndication money. They could have stopped long ago when it hit its fifth, sixth, or tenth year. Why they continued, I don't know. Most shows are long over by year 5, 6, and most people would agree 8 years is more than long enough! Why they continued to bankroll this show past Season 10 is beyond me. Why any show outside of a newscast series continues past YEAR 5 is beyond me, too.
Most people aware of the realities of TV syndication know that 52-65 episodes is more than enough for any animated series. Even more than drama and live-action comedy series, the animated comedy hits the reset button and goes back to normal with no consequence for the characters. There is nothing new left to be done with this group of characters.
If Cheers proved anything, you know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when you can't think of a damn new thing to do with your leads and are focusing storylines around 2nd and 3rd tier characters. OUCH!
LET THE SHOW DIE... FINALLY!
It'll live on in rerun heaven forever and maybe some uncreative executive dope with an MBA and no soul in any of his bones will revive it with a new voice cast and different art style 10-15 years from now. That seems to be the case with everything else! :rolleyes
The producers AND main voice cast of The Simpsons are millionaires many times over!
NONE of these people need the money!
(Sorry, but even before the lousy economy hit, I have very little sympathy when I read a story where a millionaire cries and says he's not getting paid enough cash... Inject sports figures and celebrities into this story and I have no sympathy for their situation whatsoever.)
Repeat after me --- there are at least 6 voice actors on this series making 8 million dollars a piece bank doing 22 ****ing shows a year! That's far more than any other voice cast (of an animated series) I'm aware of in TV history and still damn good by the standards of the Law & Order shows and most other network dramas, period.
The people who do the grunt work behind the scenes -- storyboard, layout, character design, audio engineers, overseas ink and paint and final animation --- don't get paid anything like $100,000 let alone a million dollars a year!
An American animation pro might earn $50,000-$70,000. His overseas counterpart will earn a fraction (half or less) that! Guess what? The working stiffs don't expect to get backend from The Simpsons or become millionaires in the process. It's just not in the game and it's unrealistic to expect that.
The Simpsons is long past its peak creativity. The tepid motion picture nailed that point down hard if some of us still didn't understand that by the fifth, sixth year of crummy seasons in a row.
Fox doesn't have to produce more episodes of this series to make syndication money. They could have stopped long ago when it hit its fifth, sixth, or tenth year. Why they continued, I don't know. Most shows are long over by year 5, 6, and most people would agree 8 years is more than long enough! Why they continued to bankroll this show past Season 10 is beyond me. Why any show outside of a newscast series continues past YEAR 5 is beyond me, too.
Most people aware of the realities of TV syndication know that 52-65 episodes is more than enough for any animated series. Even more than drama and live-action comedy series, the animated comedy hits the reset button and goes back to normal with no consequence for the characters. There is nothing new left to be done with this group of characters.
If Cheers proved anything, you know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when you can't think of a damn new thing to do with your leads and are focusing storylines around 2nd and 3rd tier characters. OUCH!
LET THE SHOW DIE... FINALLY!
It'll live on in rerun heaven forever and maybe some uncreative executive dope with an MBA and no soul in any of his bones will revive it with a new voice cast and different art style 10-15 years from now. That seems to be the case with everything else! :rolleyes
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