The original sculptor of the Stormtrooper?

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(Lord Abaddon @ Nov 16 2006, 06:08 PM) [snapback]1359433[/snapback]</div>

Nah GH, some people just see AA as the equivalent of Satan and so have to go on unsubstantiated opinionated tirades against him even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[/b]

And that, class, is what's called a slippery slope tactic. Instead of addressing it maturely, it becomes an overdramatized example to sway from fact...again. No more excuses. Despite the fact that no one said it, I will be so kind as to remind you that AA is being called on his actions and claims, nothing more.

Satan?
Grow up.

 

[lonepigeon]

So according to Brian Muir he sculpted the Stormtrooper armor (according to SithLord's interview) so AA has no rights to that design at all (not even by his own views). Did AA cut Muir in on the profits selling his armor design?

If Muir was under contract with LFL then the armor rights would have been transferred.
So even if we forget all other debates AA still reproduced the armor and copyrighted Imperial Logo without any rights whatsoever.
He's sunk.

 

[voice in the crowd]

Well unfortunately I won't make it down to Memorabilia on the 25th and 26th of November but I think I am correct in saying not only Brian Muir will be there but Andrew Ainsworth will as well.

Anybody who is in attendance could speak to both these guys. Looking at Brian Muir's list of work just speaking to him alone would be something his list of work is just incredible.

Also big question to ask is does Brian Muir have any pre-production photos of the stormtrooper armour. Also if he made the sculpts for the armour did they make a prototype and in what material?

I have seen prototype C3PO pics and the C3PO prototype made by Liz Moore which looks very different to what was actually on screen I would love to know if Muir's work was what we see on screen or if there was a prototype built which was then reworked. It would be great to see some kind of evolution of how the stormtroopers came about

So many questions to ask.

Anyone that is going please report back if you get any good info.

Cheers Chris.

 

[frosty]

Well i will be there, i will be sure to get a blood and urine sample, take along the bible so he can swear under oath who did what and how,oh and my handy lie detector,cant trust these prop making guys

 

[AnsonJames]

If Brian Muir sculpted the helmet why wasn't he mentioned during the court case?
At the same time Muir sculpting some of the trooper armor screws AA's claims about being the 'original artist' so it's all a bit of a double edged sword.

 

[Sidewinder]

I'll be going to mem next week in my USCM gear (the origins of that armour being indisputable) so will be looking these gents up.

SAS

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

<div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ Nov 17 2006, 08:03 AM) [snapback]1359623[/snapback]</div>

Well unfortunately I won't make it down to Memorabilia on the 25th and 26th of November but I think I am correct in saying not only Brian Muir will be there but Andrew Ainsworth will as well.

Anybody who is in attendance could speak to both these guys. Looking at Brian Muir's list of work just speaking to him alone would be something his list of work is just incredible.

Also big question to ask is does Brian Muir have any pre-production photos of the stormtrooper armour. Also if he made the sculpts for the armour did they make a prototype and in what material?

I have seen prototype C3PO pics and the C3PO prototype made by Liz Moore which looks very different to what was actually on screen I would love to know if Muir's work was what we see on screen or if there was a prototype built which was then reworked. It would be great to see some kind of evolution of how the stormtroopers came about

So many questions to ask.

Anyone that is going please report back if you get any good info.

Cheers Chris.
[/b]

Chris, I'm glad you've put a balanced, educated post forward rather than the typical irrational twaddle that seems to accompany any thread which mentions AA.

Maybe it reiterates what others have said, but my understanding of events is as followsÂ….

1) Liz Moor sculpted C-3PO, then left to work on A Bridge Too Far
2) Brian Muir sculpted Darth Vader
3) Brian Muir then “finished” C-3PO – Not sure what state it was in when he picked it up although there has been published photographs of a “prototype” C-3PO
4) Brian also apparently Sculpted the initial Stormtrooper Armour (NOT helmet). Not sure what state it was in (in comparison to the final design) as AFAIK there has never been any photographs published
5) Andrew Ainsworth Sculpted the Stormtrooper Helmet, and then continued with the Stormtrooper Armour from BrianÂ’s initial work. Again as to what differences there were between BMÂ’s and AAÂ’s version we just donÂ’t know at this point.
6) Andrew Ainsworth then Sculpted/Created the Death Star Gunner, Imperial Guard, X-Wing, Rebel Fleet Trooper, Rebel Ground Crew, TIE Fighter and then “finished off” Nick Pemberton’s Tusken Raider mask/helmet

Well that my belief as of 10:00am on Fri 17th Nov. IÂ’m certainly open to suggestions and intelligent discussion over whether its correct or not, and hope others are too.

If both Brian Muir and Andrew Ainsworth are at Memorabilia next weekend maybe we should try and get the two together and seek a straight answer as Frosty has said.

Cheers

Jez

 

[voice in the crowd]

<div class='quotetop'>(frosty @ Nov 17 2006, 08:58 AM) [snapback]1359632[/snapback]</div>

Well i will be there, i will be sure to get a blood and urine sample, take along the bible so he can swear under oath who did what and how,oh and my handy lie detector,cant trust these prop making guys
[/b]

:lol :lol :lol


Frosty,

Don't forget Sodium Pentothal grab some at www.SodiumPentothal"R"us.co.uk and slip it in their drinks.

Also the bible might not work as in this thread it was being debated that AA might actually be Satan himself

Joking aside any info from these guys would be much appreciated.

Chris.

 

[uk trooper]

Guys,

Forget about the trooper stuff, Brian should be taking a very special 'other helmet' with him to the show.

Also, Norman Harrison, who also worked on 3po and made the original Luke rotj saber, should be going and taking some of his collection of sabers.

I'm gonna be there with the UKG, so will probably not have enough time for a chat, but if the 'other' helmet is there, I'll try to get a few decent photos....


Jon

 

[bigbaddaddyvader]

I know I'm coming in late on a lot of the discussion here,I have participated on this matter on another board,but,to me,the most important two words that clarify this whole situation with Ainsworth seem to be repeatedly left out:
Ralph McQuarrie
I know AA did work on the helmets and Brian Muir did great,unforgettable work on Vader but it all boils down to McQuarrie's concepts does it not?
Norman also designed all the ANH sabers and I'm fairly sure he has some screen-used ANH sabers in his collection as well as the screen Luke ROTJ so that would be cool.

 

[voice in the crowd]

<div class='quotetop'>(bigbaddaddyvader @ Nov 17 2006, 12:16 PM) [snapback]1359674[/snapback]</div>

it all boils down to McQuarrie's concepts does it not?
[/b]

I think it might boil down more to the the overall vision and ideas George Lucas had that Ralph McQuarrie turned into imagery

Ralph McQuarrie's conceptual work coupled with Lucas's ideas are incredible of that there is no doubt and well ahead of their time.

The other prop people who turned the images into physical objects we saw on the screen in my eyes done an incredible job turning the drawings into icons.

Cheers Chris.

 

[SithLord]

I agree with Bingobongo's assessment at this point.

Brian knows that AA did the imperial helmets, and knows that no one in the costume department or art department did them. He also knows that AA completed work on the armor. The big question is to what extent AA had to modify the trooper armor to make the molds work and the armor wearable. It seems from AA's point of view there were sufficient changes to warrant creative execution but that needs to be discussed.

<div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ Nov 17 2006, 03:03 AM) [snapback]1359623[/snapback]</div>

Also big question to ask is does Brian Muir have any pre-production photos of the stormtrooper armour. Also if he made the sculpts for the armour did they make a prototype and in what material?

I have seen prototype C3PO pics and the C3PO prototype made by Liz Moore which looks very different to what was actually on screen I would love to know if Muir's work was what we see on screen or if there was a prototype built which was then reworked. It would be great to see some kind of evolution of how the stormtroopers came about
[/b]

He has no pre-production photos. There was no prototype.



<div class='quotetop'>(uk trooper @ Nov 17 2006, 06:57 AM) [snapback]1359671[/snapback]</div>

Forget about the trooper stuff, Brian should be taking a very special 'other helmet' with him to the show.
[/b]

It's not that special...just another replica. And it's NOT Brian's, it's Norman's. And Norman didn't get it from Brian. Brian has no Vader helmets and never did have any Vader helmets. You guys really have to take with a grain of salt (to put it very mildly) what Paul and Norman Harrison say when it comes to Vader.


<div class='quotetop'>(frosty @ Nov 17 2006, 03:58 AM) [snapback]1359632[/snapback]</div>

Well i will be there, i will be sure to get a blood and urine sample, take along the bible so he can swear under oath who did what and how,oh and my handy lie detector,cant trust these prop making guys
[/b]

Brian will just be there to sign autographs....so bring along your favorite pic of Vader .

 

[bigbaddaddyvader]

<div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ Nov 17 2006, 02:29 PM) [snapback]1359721[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(bigbaddaddyvader @ Nov 17 2006, 12:16 PM) [snapback]1359674[/snapback]

it all boils down to McQuarrie's concepts does it not?
[/b]

I think it might boil down more to the the overall vision and ideas George Lucas had that Ralph McQuarrie turned into imagery


[/b][/quote]

My point being that as McQuarrie was working directly from Lucas' ideas and vision,and creating a visual representation of these ideas,that the concepts and eventual physical realisation of said ideas belong proprietarily to LFL no matter what SDS say.
:thumbsup

 

[voice in the crowd]

<div class='quotetop'>(bigbaddaddyvader @ Nov 17 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1359866[/snapback]</div>

My point being that as McQuarrie was working directly from Lucas' ideas and vision,and creating a visual representation of these ideas,that the concepts and eventual physical realisation of said ideas belong proprietarily to LFL no matter what SDS say.
:thumbsup

[/b]

True enough McQuarrie's input has never been in question and apart from SDS and a few others I don't think LFL's ownership is really in question.

By the way bigbaddaddyvader welcome to the boards and I might add your board name is tremendous :thumbsup

Cheers Chris.

 

[Helmetman]

I will be attending Memorabilia on the Saturday and will be speaking to both of these guys. As mentioned before, I have previously spoken to AA about his involvment on SW and he was fine answering questions.

Whether they were truthful answers is another thing. I would like to believe what Jez has stated. BM started work on the armour - then AA took over and made it wearable. AA made the lids. I will be asking Brian to confirm that.

It has been stated that AA did not assemble ONE helmet. Not one.

Then why do we have shots of piles of them outside his window front ready for pickup?

We have a week to go before the event so maybe we should kick around some ideas of what are the best questions to put to them. Remember, lightly does it. AA is there to sell lids, BM is there to sign autos so anything heavy and we may get shifted away.

What do you think?

 

[bigbaddaddyvader]

<div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ Nov 17 2006, 06:54 PM) [snapback]1359928[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(bigbaddaddyvader @ Nov 17 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1359866[/snapback]

My point being that as McQuarrie was working directly from Lucas' ideas and vision,and creating a visual representation of these ideas,that the concepts and eventual physical realisation of said ideas belong proprietarily to LFL no matter what SDS say.
:thumbsup

[/b]

True enough McQuarrie's input has never been in question and apart from SDS and a few others I don't think LFL's ownership is really in question.

By the way bigbaddaddyvader welcome to the boards and I might add your board name is tremendous :thumbsup

Cheers Chris.
[/b][/quote]

Thanks very much.I have been creeping about for a while and it's great to finally be a member.The name started out as an in-joke between my wife and kids but I also think it's pretty sweet. :lol I am such a HUGE vader fan. :thumbsup
Problem being,in my view,with wanting to put any direct questions to Andrew Ainsworth is that will be probably be answered with a no comment due to the legal situation.Worth asking him why on earth he thought he would win this case and possibly advise him to get better representation.....

 

[SithLord]

Yes, welcome BigDaddy....nice to see you make it to the RPF. :cheers

 

[bigbaddaddyvader]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Nov 17 2006, 09:30 PM) [snapback]1360026[/snapback]</div>

Yes, welcome BigDaddy....nice to see you make it to the RPF. :cheers
[/b]

Hi Thomas and thanks.Will look forward to meeting you at CE. :thumbsup

 

[freakengine]

Let's face it. Live action film is a collaborative medium...big budget studio productions even moreso. No single individual, not even the writer or director, can claim to have been the originator of everything you see onscreen, unless they animated and voiced all the elements in an animated film. Even the strictest auteur, like James Cameron, relies on the skills of hundreds of others to bring "their vision" to the screen. The role of each individual in this process can vary greatly, especially from production to production.

None of these fine folks could have done what they did on SW without the help of all of the others. That said, BM is truly talented and deserves to be recognized for his contributions to modern cinema.


*stepping away from the podium*

-Tom

 

[jorusfett]

<div class='quotetop'>(Helmetman @ Nov 17 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]1359944[/snapback]</div>

Then why do we have shots of piles of them outside his window front ready for pickup?

[/b]

Isn't that where the trim was installed? That would explain the large pile of helmets there.

AA worked with auto parts and boat trim and had them available in his shop.