The DEFINITIVE VADER Q&A session - time to ARCHIVE?
- Thread starter Oohyeah KL
- Start date
Durasteel Corporation
Well-Known Member
darthjones,
which buildings/sets did you work in? which security clearence did they let you have?
D
which buildings/sets did you work in? which security clearence did they let you have?
D
darthjones
Sr Member
Hey, gang. As far as ILM goes, anyone who works there has relatively free access to any common area. Only smaller areas are shut down for secrecy during certain shoots but that is about all. At least at the time. No security clearance needed if you are known by all. I was mainly in D bldg. and in the Creature Shop. C bldg. was all computers.
Lets see - I think I have all the material jotted down that y'all asked about. Firstly, the belt boxes changed shape because many there don't consider it that crucial to what might be happening at the time. I have a raw set of metal ones here that are the same ones that you see in the George Lucas Museum book from Japan (archives book U.S.). They are, however, bigger than all the movie ones. Some of the boxes are plastic, some metal. Some of the boxes they made, some they built.
Going through ILM is weird. In one way your bubble is totally burst because you find that they really don't care as long as they do a good job with whatever loose or tight guidlines they are given. For instance, the Indiana Jones hat - they had most of them piled in a box, some stunt ones, some Ford ones, whatever. But the MAIN hat is boxed away and untouchable. The Vader screen helmets were out and I lined them up for comparison but otherwise just sitting around. I accidentally broke the handle out of Vader's severed wrist thingie but it was fixable. The Indy Jones jackets are very flimsy and all made out of Lamb, very tearable if you pull hard enough.
Archives is now under lock and key and climate controlled. That will help because some of the troopers were warping under the wearhouse heat. Those guys are THIN styrene for the most part.
The Vader codpiece oval is deeper than the rest of the piece by about 1/4 inch.
I wish I knew what the chest box rods were. GT has a beautiful set of them for use. They are a tiny bit too long in the top long section. See photos for comparison if you have one around.
Hmmmm, what else? I got to wear the Vader reveal helmet briefly. That was cool. It didn't have an outer helmet with it at the time though.
I could have looked more closely at Boba Fett but I didn't.
Oh, for Vader belt box size, I suggest looking at the photo in the orange doorway on Bespin where Vader is talking to Fett with Lando in the middle. Since we know that the chest box is 6 3/4 inches square (maybe minus 1/8 inch), use that to measure the belt box that is facing you in the photo. That is the belt box I like best. A tiny bit larger than the Jedi boxes I found up there but smaller than the ones they now use in all their displays. It is also smaller than the ones you see from the Chronicles photo with the three shop guys standing behind all the Vader equipment.
If I missed anything, let me know. I'm a bit burned out today.
I can GUARANTEE you though that the Hebrew lettering was put on Vader's outfit just because it looked kind of different. The man who put it on for the ESB box did NOT know that Vader would turn good later on. Lucas gave no directive here. It is a bubble burster I know. Believe me it was hard to be there and realize that many of those people don't care about it as much as we do. It got to the point where Don Bies called ME to find out what kind of gun Indy used in the first film.
But this is not the case anymore. Everything is now catalogued and greater care is going into making the appearance costumes more consistent with the movie outfits.
Lets see - I think I have all the material jotted down that y'all asked about. Firstly, the belt boxes changed shape because many there don't consider it that crucial to what might be happening at the time. I have a raw set of metal ones here that are the same ones that you see in the George Lucas Museum book from Japan (archives book U.S.). They are, however, bigger than all the movie ones. Some of the boxes are plastic, some metal. Some of the boxes they made, some they built.
Going through ILM is weird. In one way your bubble is totally burst because you find that they really don't care as long as they do a good job with whatever loose or tight guidlines they are given. For instance, the Indiana Jones hat - they had most of them piled in a box, some stunt ones, some Ford ones, whatever. But the MAIN hat is boxed away and untouchable. The Vader screen helmets were out and I lined them up for comparison but otherwise just sitting around. I accidentally broke the handle out of Vader's severed wrist thingie but it was fixable. The Indy Jones jackets are very flimsy and all made out of Lamb, very tearable if you pull hard enough.
Archives is now under lock and key and climate controlled. That will help because some of the troopers were warping under the wearhouse heat. Those guys are THIN styrene for the most part.
The Vader codpiece oval is deeper than the rest of the piece by about 1/4 inch.
I wish I knew what the chest box rods were. GT has a beautiful set of them for use. They are a tiny bit too long in the top long section. See photos for comparison if you have one around.
Hmmmm, what else? I got to wear the Vader reveal helmet briefly. That was cool. It didn't have an outer helmet with it at the time though.
I could have looked more closely at Boba Fett but I didn't.
Oh, for Vader belt box size, I suggest looking at the photo in the orange doorway on Bespin where Vader is talking to Fett with Lando in the middle. Since we know that the chest box is 6 3/4 inches square (maybe minus 1/8 inch), use that to measure the belt box that is facing you in the photo. That is the belt box I like best. A tiny bit larger than the Jedi boxes I found up there but smaller than the ones they now use in all their displays. It is also smaller than the ones you see from the Chronicles photo with the three shop guys standing behind all the Vader equipment.
If I missed anything, let me know. I'm a bit burned out today.
I can GUARANTEE you though that the Hebrew lettering was put on Vader's outfit just because it looked kind of different. The man who put it on for the ESB box did NOT know that Vader would turn good later on. Lucas gave no directive here. It is a bubble burster I know. Believe me it was hard to be there and realize that many of those people don't care about it as much as we do. It got to the point where Don Bies called ME to find out what kind of gun Indy used in the first film.
But this is not the case anymore. Everything is now catalogued and greater care is going into making the appearance costumes more consistent with the movie outfits.
darthjones
Sr Member
Oh, and if you do have other PH Vader photos from around the world, put 'em up. I am curious. I was there when they made some of those. I made the eye mold in fact for some of them. A lot of the PH jobs are quickies but sold to PH for BANK.
lonepigeon
Master Member
What about that Vader suit on the 12" figure box cover? It's the suit that ended up at PH Chicago or at least the same saber. I've took closeup pics of the saber:
<img src=http://lonepigeon.home.att.net/phchisaber.jpg>
I was shooting for the saber so I don't have full costume pics, but there's a belt box and glove in there for the discussion.
<img src=http://lonepigeon.home.att.net/phchisaber.jpg>
I was shooting for the saber so I don't have full costume pics, but there's a belt box and glove in there for the discussion.
darthjones
Sr Member
Hi! Yes, I was there when they made that suit or it is one in a series for which I was present. If you have any pictures of the chest box, I would be curious to see what the writing is there.
The belt box here is the supersize one that they have in the Archives book. It is bigger than the movie ones but what they use now unless something changes. The boxes come in metal but some plastic ones were cast with the button marks on them for easy reference. Those six silver buttons are black allenhead screws with the tops bondoed in.
The saber is a made up plastic thing as you have probably guessed. Shoot, I wonder if there were any metal parts on that at all. I wouldn't use it as a guide to anything. When I was there I suggested that they just mold one of the already solid stunt handles and then just carve out the stick blade. They said "whatever," but with a laugh.
If I recall correctly, the black collar on the cape is too stiff and even may stick up like Dracula in some cases. You can see this on the Darth Vader bookmark that used to be sold. Same figure run as this but weird collar.
I also thought the paint they used for the faces on this run was a bit too silver.
More photos?
The belt box here is the supersize one that they have in the Archives book. It is bigger than the movie ones but what they use now unless something changes. The boxes come in metal but some plastic ones were cast with the button marks on them for easy reference. Those six silver buttons are black allenhead screws with the tops bondoed in.
The saber is a made up plastic thing as you have probably guessed. Shoot, I wonder if there were any metal parts on that at all. I wouldn't use it as a guide to anything. When I was there I suggested that they just mold one of the already solid stunt handles and then just carve out the stick blade. They said "whatever," but with a laugh.
If I recall correctly, the black collar on the cape is too stiff and even may stick up like Dracula in some cases. You can see this on the Darth Vader bookmark that used to be sold. Same figure run as this but weird collar.
I also thought the paint they used for the faces on this run was a bit too silver.
More photos?
Zaphod Beeblebrox
New Member
Welcome to the board, Darthjones.
It's great that we have another person here who has first-hand experience with the things that we are trying to replicate and is willing to share their knowledge.
Thanks for joining us.
ZB
It's great that we have another person here who has first-hand experience with the things that we are trying to replicate and is willing to share their knowledge.
Thanks for joining us.
ZB
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>darthjones wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>If I recall correctly, the black collar on the cape is too stiff and even may stick up like Dracula in some cases. You can see this on the Darth Vader bookmark that used to be sold. Same figure run as this but weird collar.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Ah, which reminds me!! I had a thread earlier asking about the collar and chain.
I think our (at least my) tentative conclusion was this:
CHAIN:
- In all 3 movies a chain was used on the cape, except in ANH and ESB there was no hook on the chest armor therefore the chain was mainly under the helmet and therefore unnoticeable for the most part. In ROTJ a hook was placed on the chest armor therefore the chain became visible.
- The black (plastic?) garden chain was the one used in the movies, and the chrome linked-chain seen on the Vis-Dict. and MOM Vader were never used on screen.
COLLAR:
- ANH and ROTJ definitely had a collar.
- ESB? The shots I've seen seem to show that he didn't have a collar at all. Either that or it was pulled so much in that it was hidden under the helmet.
Oh, and one more thing I noticed which I haven't discussed before. Regarding that collar that stands up like Dracula that you mentioned, I think I know which pic you are talking about. I see it on the Vader 12" Collector's Edition. My theory is that it stands up because the collar is a **straight** piece, therefore if you sew it onto the semi-circular hole in the neck part of the cape, it is bound to stick up.
Therefore, I presume that the accurate collar is one which is itself semi-circular in shape instead of a straight piece, so it is the same 'shape' as the cape's neck hole and therefore continues to lay flat.
What do you think of the above, Dr. Jones?
Ah, which reminds me!! I had a thread earlier asking about the collar and chain.
I think our (at least my) tentative conclusion was this:
CHAIN:
- In all 3 movies a chain was used on the cape, except in ANH and ESB there was no hook on the chest armor therefore the chain was mainly under the helmet and therefore unnoticeable for the most part. In ROTJ a hook was placed on the chest armor therefore the chain became visible.
- The black (plastic?) garden chain was the one used in the movies, and the chrome linked-chain seen on the Vis-Dict. and MOM Vader were never used on screen.
COLLAR:
- ANH and ROTJ definitely had a collar.
- ESB? The shots I've seen seem to show that he didn't have a collar at all. Either that or it was pulled so much in that it was hidden under the helmet.
Oh, and one more thing I noticed which I haven't discussed before. Regarding that collar that stands up like Dracula that you mentioned, I think I know which pic you are talking about. I see it on the Vader 12" Collector's Edition. My theory is that it stands up because the collar is a **straight** piece, therefore if you sew it onto the semi-circular hole in the neck part of the cape, it is bound to stick up.
Therefore, I presume that the accurate collar is one which is itself semi-circular in shape instead of a straight piece, so it is the same 'shape' as the cape's neck hole and therefore continues to lay flat.
What do you think of the above, Dr. Jones?
Darth Bill
Well-Known Member
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Oohyeah KL wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>COLLAR:
- ESB? The shots I've seen seem to show that he didn't have a collar at all. Either that or it was pulled so much in that it was hidden under the helmet.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
KL, yer killin' me....
Said it before an' I'll say it again:
Waaaaatch.... theeeeee.... moooooviiieeeeee.....
When Vader's telling the Admiral that the Rebels are on Hoth, you can SEE the damn collar...!!
I *KNOW* you've got this film on *coughbootlegcough* DVD....
DON'T make me come all the way out to Hong Kong to school ya...
Russ
- ESB? The shots I've seen seem to show that he didn't have a collar at all. Either that or it was pulled so much in that it was hidden under the helmet.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
KL, yer killin' me....
Said it before an' I'll say it again:
Waaaaatch.... theeeeee.... moooooviiieeeeee.....
When Vader's telling the Admiral that the Rebels are on Hoth, you can SEE the damn collar...!!
I *KNOW* you've got this film on *coughbootlegcough* DVD....
DON'T make me come all the way out to Hong Kong to school ya...
Russ
darthjones
Sr Member
Yes, there is a leather collar and plastic garden chain on every cape up there they consider to be movie accurate. There are also other photos I have from ESB with a leather collar.
Oddly enough, a couple of the movie capes had a nylon cord back "behind" the plastic chain where you couldn't see it. I guess the plastic chain was not strong enough to hold the cape and was just draped on the front to look cool.
But the black nylon cord was definately stretched tight.
This was not on all the capes but seemed like a good system if you were going to be walking around. None of the mannequins had this to my knowledge. I could be wrong about that but they just seemed to have the plastic chain.
There are capes up there without collars but they are rush jobs or stunt capes or whatever - not hero capes
Oddly enough, a couple of the movie capes had a nylon cord back "behind" the plastic chain where you couldn't see it. I guess the plastic chain was not strong enough to hold the cape and was just draped on the front to look cool.
But the black nylon cord was definately stretched tight.
This was not on all the capes but seemed like a good system if you were going to be walking around. None of the mannequins had this to my knowledge. I could be wrong about that but they just seemed to have the plastic chain.
There are capes up there without collars but they are rush jobs or stunt capes or whatever - not hero capes
jme3
Sr Member
Hi darthjones. It's great to have you here on the board. In deference to my laziness I'm posting a question here without filing all the way through the previous inquiries so you may have already answered it to some degree. Concerning the Vader reveal, though, would you have any ideas what are the origins of some of its detail items? We have an active project currently running here and so far we've identified a handful of the detail items used on the original but some obviously still have us stumped. For example, the "spider leg-crow's feet" -looking pieces on the forehead/temple area of the mask, the "piano keys" on the crown, the exact make of camera shutters used for the left/right eye pieces, and the gold discs inside the mask. I guess this is a pretty tall order but if you might have any insights into atleast one of these, that would be spectacular.
Regards,
JME3
Regards,
JME3
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
OK OK he has a collar in ESB!!!!
(*he says, reluctantly, petrified at the mere thought of Russ coming to Hong Kong, whilst trying hard not to wonder why there's clearly no signs of a collar in several of the ESB movie stills...*
)
So I assume everything else I said is correct then, like the fact that there's only a hook (for the cape-chain) on the ROTJ chest armor.
OK, next question from me, Vader's inner cape:
- You know the slit on the side of the inner cape where his arms go through - how far down his side does the slit extend?
eg., does it extend all the way down to his belt like I see some of the Vader action figures do, or is the slit opening much smaller than that?
(*he says, reluctantly, petrified at the mere thought of Russ coming to Hong Kong, whilst trying hard not to wonder why there's clearly no signs of a collar in several of the ESB movie stills...*
So I assume everything else I said is correct then, like the fact that there's only a hook (for the cape-chain) on the ROTJ chest armor.
OK, next question from me, Vader's inner cape:
- You know the slit on the side of the inner cape where his arms go through - how far down his side does the slit extend?
eg., does it extend all the way down to his belt like I see some of the Vader action figures do, or is the slit opening much smaller than that?
darthjones
Sr Member
Okay, I'll try for the two last posts here. I don't know JACK about the Vader Reveal. I have even had it on my head but couldn't tell you anything about it. What I like about that mask is that they cleaned up the face so much - straightening things out. By the way, does anyone have or know anything about the Vader Reveal that was on ebay from Japan a few months back?
And the cape thing - To my knowledge Vader only had a cape hook in Jedi. That was more of a functional thing of course. I thought it looked weird but whatever. At least it keeps any actor from choking in that thing.
If I get an ESB collar photo I'll post it. Same with any more Hebrewish stuff.
And the cape thing - To my knowledge Vader only had a cape hook in Jedi. That was more of a functional thing of course. I thought it looked weird but whatever. At least it keeps any actor from choking in that thing.
If I get an ESB collar photo I'll post it. Same with any more Hebrewish stuff.
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Darth Jones!
Any idea on the inner cape slit for the arms?
Any idea on the inner cape slit for the arms?
darthjones
Sr Member
Oh, thats right. I forgot. The arm hole was always very large and went down almost to the belt. You could always see the chest strap through it. Don't know the exact measurement but it was always a deep cut.
How does one post an image on this crazy thing?
How does one post an image on this crazy thing?
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Here's the pic DJ wanted to post:
[attachmentid=1177]
Here are the pics which made me think the ESB had no collar:
[attachmentid=1178]
[attachmentid=1179]
But regardless of these pics, I do submit, Russ, that there were at least certain scenes in ESB where you CAN see the collar.
[attachmentid=1177]
Here are the pics which made me think the ESB had no collar:
[attachmentid=1178]
[attachmentid=1179]
But regardless of these pics, I do submit, Russ, that there were at least certain scenes in ESB where you CAN see the collar.
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