The DEFINITIVE VADER Q&A session - time to ARCHIVE?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Oohyeah KL, Mar 20, 2002.

  1. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Time to stick it in the Archives before/in case it unwittingly falls off into oblivion?

    All Vader fans out there - we have an invaluable resource on the board - Darth Jones, ex-ILM.. He's already shed a lot of light on the chestbox.

    If you have any questions on any other part of the Vader, shoot a question and see if he knows the answer.

    ----------
    Actually, calling DarthJones.

    This is the original thread where the discussion originated from:
    http://rpf.prop-planet.com/viewtopic.php?topic=9771&forum=1
    Thought I'd start a thread specifically on the writing.
    Some of you might remember the great discussion we had a number of months ago about the meaning of the writing, etc.
    (btw, if anyone happened to have saved it, please tell me..)
    DarthJones seems to know a huge amount on the different Vader versions, so hopefully, Dr. Jones, you can finally lay to rest which is the authentic version.

    Anyway, as requested, here are all the pics I have of the different versions of the writing:

    1) MOM version #1:

    [attachmentid=1170]

    This is what the article about the Hebrew writing was based upon. Supposedly it says, "Ein MaaSaV/NimChaLim/Aad SheZaCha" and which is meant to mean "His deeds will not be forgiven, until he merits", though Kertratz and his Hebrew teacher says that the Hebrew writing is gibberish and does not say that.

    THis also appears on this official-looking LFL archive pic, which I don't know where it's from.
    I think it might well be the same box.

    [attachmentid=1171]

    2) MOM version #2

    [attachmentid=1172]

    I have this pic on my hard drive also labelled as MOM. But this obviously does not look anything like the MOM version further above.
    Are there different MOM versions???

    btw, sorry for the puny size. Does anyone have a closeup of this and/or confirm/deny whether this was from MOM?


    3) Sp. Edition cardboard standee version

    [attachmentid=1173]

    Note: As you can probably see, and as told by Chris Tevas, this pic was heavily photoshopped. You can see that the writing and coin slots were copy and pasted from one slot onto the other two slots.
    THat one line of writing seems to look like the first line of the MOM #1 writing though. AGain, might be the same box even.


    4) Planet Hollywood version:

    [attachmentid=1174]


    (Courtesy of PHArchivist - thanks again.)
    Seems nothing like the others.

    Do I remember someone saying that it's also Hebrew writing, but also gibberish?


    5) Visual Dictionary version:

    [attachmentid=1175]

    This is the same writing seen on the Rubies version, GT version, and my metal Vader.
    Some say the third line says "LFL1995"?

    6) SW Technical Journal version:

    [attachmentid=1176]

    Looks pretty unauthentic. Could this also be Hebrew?? Well, what say you, Dr. Jones? (btw, darn, have to go to bed now. DarthJones, I'm in HK, and we're GMT +8.
     
  2. yodakiller1138

    yodakiller1138 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The MOM#2 is actually A New Hope version.
     
  3. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    Hi KL,

    Yep, the photo that you have as MOM#2 is actually an ANH chest box that was displayed at the Art of Star Wars exhibition here in the U.K.

    Chris.
     
  4. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Hey! Hi everybody. I worked late last night and am only now out of bed. Sucks. Day is half over. Anyway, that is an awful lot of Hebrew! I must say that while it might be fun to figure out what some of the writing meant, NO ONE at LFL put any thought into it.

    Nice picture collection.

    The top one seems to be a DEAD ON Jedi box. The top and bottom bars of writing are the same as in the movie but the middle one looks a little different. Could be a cannibalized ESB box. The middle lettering looks like ESB. The top and bottom writing here are the same as in the "pull my finger" photo from the Death Star docking bay in Jedi. Note also that the buttons are a little closer together than many reproductions and that the coin slots still have that little flat base beneath them like it ANH. Lastly, the tiny brass buttons at the bottom of the rods are both higher on the left. This was the case in the movies but new ones at LFL and reproductions have made it so that they are both higher on the outside of the rods.

    Next photo down IS the same box. Writing a little clearer. Note that bottom of rods does not extend below rocker bar block like on GT and rubie's. Rods are a tiny bit shorter. Tiny bit. And the aluminum buttons, the tiny in between ones, are movie accurate here.

    What does MOM mean by the way?

    Third one down obviously ANH but with tiny letters added above the rocker bars and in between the coin slots. Not movie accurate to anything but I can't see much of the writing.

    Fourth picture down is just wacked. The writing looks pretty cool though. Not movie accurate overall but the same font and some of the same letters.

    Fifth picture down is Las Vegas, right? The helmet with two silver cheeks as I recall. Anyway, a goofy box but to tell you the truth, I like the evil looking silver buttons on top of the rods. Kinda cool. The writing again is somewhat off but same font. And the Jedi box always did start with a "W" in the top left.

    Ahhh, the Visual Dictionary version. Well, it becomes more official once it is posted as such but looks to be box made after all of the films. The rods here are not even aluminum but plastic. The lettering looks much like an echo of the lettering "used" on versions I worked on while at LFL. It echoes the names of those who made the particular suit. For instance, Don Bies worked on these and the middle bar of writing says essentially "BIES AD." Maybe his middle name starts with an "A." The bottom one has "LFL" and so forth. Ya think I'm pushing it? - There was one box up there that actually said Don Bies, Amy (I forgot the last name), and someone else. It was on display at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art for a short while. The teensie weensie buttons are all movie accurate (the tiny one on the left looks screwed up though). And the coin slot bases were removed on these because they were only going by photos even though the real thing was only a block away.

    The Technical Journal one is totally misleading by the way. The writing is not accurate to anything.

    Most of this I have left here is in reference to the Jedi box. The ESB box, as hinted at above, had slightly different writing. There is a black and white production still from ESB with Vader at the Bespin dinner table and Fett behind him in which you can see the writing. I'll look for the photo here but it may have gotten thrown out!

    Hong Kong. Wow. Kinda far away. I love technology. I may leave more later if I can think of anything but must pretend now to go "earn" money.
     
  5. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Yes but the fact that Vaders chest box resembles size, shape, colours, and number of pieces (ie, jewels representing the tribes of Israel) of the ancient Jewish chest pouches used by High Priests is a bit too much of a so-called coinkydink to really be one imho. Vader, as Tarkin said was the "last" of his kind, the truly high priest of the jedi/force. hmmm.
    And the whole messianic nature of star wars/vaders story is yet another fact, even if an anxillary one.

    I think its safe to say that there was at least an attempt to make some kind of visual connection to Judaism, Messianism, and Chrisitanity.

    Durasteel
     
  6. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a lot of what we see in Star Wars echoes a lot of this and Vader's chest box is very evocative of the one described in the Bible or whatever that they reproduced for Belloq in Raiders. However, the mere fact that the letters and words change so much is also indicative of the fact that, after a point of impression, the rules are somewhat flexible. I doubt that the words Don Bies or LFL have much to do with it all.

    I can guarantee you that, while the box probably deliberately echoes religious emblematics, Hebrew was chosen because it looks "other," not because it was Hebrew.
     
  7. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    DarthJones--Awesome info! Yes--PH LV...! The PH in Beverly Hills also had a suit a few years back, but my pics of it are less clear.

    What do you suppose that switch on the right side of the PHLV box is (our left)?
     
  8. kertratz

    kertratz Well-Known Member

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    I cant handle this thread again! Once is enough...

    I didnt read through this whole thread so I dont know if anyone corrected oohyea yet but I did not at all say it was gibberish... In fact I confirmed part of the translation while making the other part more accurate...and I also made a pic with all the hebrew writing both the reglar way and with the middle line upside down.
     
  9. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    I never knew the ANH chestbox ever had writing on it!!
    That's why I assumed it was just a weirdly painted ESB/ROTJ box when I saw the writing. THanks YK and cking for pointing that out!
    btw, Chris, you mean those pics are not MOM at all then? Better relabel my pics!
    Does anyone have more pics of that Vader?

    DJ - As hoped, that's absolutely awesome info!! THanks so much! MOM is "Magic of the Myth", which goes on tour in the US, I believe. Anyone knows where MOM is now?

    BTW, if you could get hold of a pic of the ESB box that'd be great!

    Kertratz - there you are! [​IMG] This thread is actually not about meaning of the writing, but rather, to try to determine which version of the writing should be regarded as the "authentic" version.
    Now we finally have an answer, thanks to DJ!
    Sorry if I misinterpreted your previous advice. So are you saying that the MOM pic writing is not gibberish? If so, what does it say?
    *, if only someone had saved the previous thread. [​IMG]
     
  10. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    More Vader Chest Boxes...

    PH Beverly Hills (No longer open)
    [​IMG]
     
  11. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Several cool points here. Let me see if I can remember it all. Yes, I was only addressing what was the most consistent film version of Hebrew on the boxes. I have no idea what it means. I think the top line reads "supersize that" in English but "supersize this" in Dutch.

    Okay, comedy over (applause). First of all, the switch on the Las Vegas Planet Hollywood is just a switch. Just something they put on to turn on the lights but they didn't bother to hide it. No big deal. There are some belt boxes like that too.

    I will look for my ESB picture. Has almost the same lettering as Jedi.

    Lastly, the Planet Hollywood costume from Beverly Hills was on loan. It was the second and lesser of two costumes owned by Steve Sansweet. He sold that costume to a guy who lent it to the restaurant. It used to have all kinds of goofy writing on it but Steve sent it up to Don Bies who cleaned it up to be a little more movie accurate.

    One good thing to note on it is that the buttons are once again a little closer together than people ususally make them.

    As far as the ANH box goes, there was never writing on it but, for appearances and so forth, they stuck a couple of words on it here and there.

    Shoot, if you think this is bad, the belt boxes keep changing size and depth all the time! But you all know that.
     
  12. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Notice also on the Beverly Hills picture that they took off the bases on the coin slots. Oops.
     
  13. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    DJ - Any luck with the ESB photo?

    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>darthjones wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Shoot, if you think this is bad, the belt boxes keep changing size and depth all the time! But you all know that.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    er... tell us anyway... [​IMG] I'm a Vader nut so whatever interesting stories you have, please share!!!

    OK, first question - is the codpiece's oval bit in the center indented inside or at the same level as the outer surface.
    If indented, by how much? I've seen photos of both kinds, though the movie ones seem hardly indented at all.
    This question has been bugging me for ages!
     
  14. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Ok maybe I missed this conclusive point, but where and how was it decided that the Hebrew was suddenly...not Hebrew?
    Alternitively, how was it arrived upon that it was Hebrew to begin with??? Chest beating aside, as far as I can tell, Im the only person who has noted the similarities to the Jewish High Priest chest pouches (actually while working on a grad thesis about three years ago) but I was certainly NOT the one to point out the fact that it was or was not Hebrew written on it. The fact that two unrelated 'camps' seem to have noticed a strong Judaic connection on the chest box makes it hard to dismiss as a mere coinkydink or impressionistic.

    Now Im sure that ~some~ of those boxes have jibberish on them. Yet I continue to wonder how it was that it was thought to have been Hebrew in the first place..with such a poignant phrase (on sin and redemption) to boot!

    Not trying to be the party pooper gang, just not quite decided yet.

    Cheers,
    D
     
  15. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if it was me who caused the confusion, but the conclusion is NOT that the writing isn't Hebrew.
    Rather, it IS Hebrew characters that are used, but it is just seemingly random scatterings of the characters, therefore producing "jibberish". ie., just like "nblc;afsd" is English jibberish. [​IMG]

    From Kertratz's post, it seems that at least not all of it is jibberish, and some actually make sense. Some believe it even means "His deeds shall not be forgiven until he merits", remember? [​IMG]
     
  16. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I have a question!
    What are those chest box rods? They were obviously real parts cut down and appear again in full on the Skiff Guard Vibro-Ax.

    Are there any other props/costumes that you know as well as Vader? Subjects for another thread(s) of course- I don't want to hijack here.
     
  17. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I am going to take down the pics I posted that are stretching the thread. I will likely re-post them, but may not be tonight...
     
  18. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    DarthJones, again, very cool info on the PHBH suit...

    Any more history on the PHLV suit you are aware of? In my archives, I have pics of Vader chest armor and helmet from PHSF, and a Vader helmet at the PH WDC. Any juicy tidbits on these pieces?
     
  19. Flix4Me

    Flix4Me Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The DV figure that I have been making off-and-on is to be an ESB version. What size belt boxes shall I use? Metal or plastic? Opinions anyone?
     
  20. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Ive always thought the rods were created using musical instrument pieces. C3P0s arm pieces look rather similar in this context.


    my two rods.
    D
     
  21. Draco

    Draco New Member

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    Just wanted to say "welcome!" to DarthJones and to thank him for sharing his knowledge and insight into the minute we obsess over!
     
  22. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    darthjones,

    which buildings/sets did you work in? which security clearence did they let you have?
    D
     
  23. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Hey, gang. As far as ILM goes, anyone who works there has relatively free access to any common area. Only smaller areas are shut down for secrecy during certain shoots but that is about all. At least at the time. No security clearance needed if you are known by all. I was mainly in D bldg. and in the Creature Shop. C bldg. was all computers.

    Lets see - I think I have all the material jotted down that y'all asked about. Firstly, the belt boxes changed shape because many there don't consider it that crucial to what might be happening at the time. I have a raw set of metal ones here that are the same ones that you see in the George Lucas Museum book from Japan (archives book U.S.). They are, however, bigger than all the movie ones. Some of the boxes are plastic, some metal. Some of the boxes they made, some they built.

    Going through ILM is weird. In one way your bubble is totally burst because you find that they really don't care as long as they do a good job with whatever loose or tight guidlines they are given. For instance, the Indiana Jones hat - they had most of them piled in a box, some stunt ones, some Ford ones, whatever. But the MAIN hat is boxed away and untouchable. The Vader screen helmets were out and I lined them up for comparison but otherwise just sitting around. I accidentally broke the handle out of Vader's severed wrist thingie but it was fixable. The Indy Jones jackets are very flimsy and all made out of Lamb, very tearable if you pull hard enough.

    Archives is now under lock and key and climate controlled. That will help because some of the troopers were warping under the wearhouse heat. Those guys are THIN styrene for the most part.

    The Vader codpiece oval is deeper than the rest of the piece by about 1/4 inch.

    I wish I knew what the chest box rods were. GT has a beautiful set of them for use. They are a tiny bit too long in the top long section. See photos for comparison if you have one around.

    Hmmmm, what else? I got to wear the Vader reveal helmet briefly. That was cool. It didn't have an outer helmet with it at the time though.

    I could have looked more closely at Boba Fett but I didn't.

    Oh, for Vader belt box size, I suggest looking at the photo in the orange doorway on Bespin where Vader is talking to Fett with Lando in the middle. Since we know that the chest box is 6 3/4 inches square (maybe minus 1/8 inch), use that to measure the belt box that is facing you in the photo. That is the belt box I like best. A tiny bit larger than the Jedi boxes I found up there but smaller than the ones they now use in all their displays. It is also smaller than the ones you see from the Chronicles photo with the three shop guys standing behind all the Vader equipment.

    If I missed anything, let me know. I'm a bit burned out today.

    I can GUARANTEE you though that the Hebrew lettering was put on Vader's outfit just because it looked kind of different. The man who put it on for the ESB box did NOT know that Vader would turn good later on. Lucas gave no directive here. It is a bubble burster I know. Believe me it was hard to be there and realize that many of those people don't care about it as much as we do. It got to the point where Don Bies called ME to find out what kind of gun Indy used in the first film.

    But this is not the case anymore. Everything is now catalogued and greater care is going into making the appearance costumes more consistent with the movie outfits.
     
  24. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and if you do have other PH Vader photos from around the world, put 'em up. I am curious. I was there when they made some of those. I made the eye mold in fact for some of them. A lot of the PH jobs are quickies but sold to PH for BANK.
     
  25. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    What about that Vader suit on the 12" figure box cover? It's the suit that ended up at PH Chicago or at least the same saber. I've took closeup pics of the saber:

    <img src=http://lonepigeon.home.att.net/phchisaber.jpg>

    I was shooting for the saber so I don't have full costume pics, but there's a belt box and glove in there for the discussion.
     
  26. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Hi! Yes, I was there when they made that suit or it is one in a series for which I was present. If you have any pictures of the chest box, I would be curious to see what the writing is there.

    The belt box here is the supersize one that they have in the Archives book. It is bigger than the movie ones but what they use now unless something changes. The boxes come in metal but some plastic ones were cast with the button marks on them for easy reference. Those six silver buttons are black allenhead screws with the tops bondoed in.

    The saber is a made up plastic thing as you have probably guessed. Shoot, I wonder if there were any metal parts on that at all. I wouldn't use it as a guide to anything. When I was there I suggested that they just mold one of the already solid stunt handles and then just carve out the stick blade. They said "whatever," but with a laugh.

    If I recall correctly, the black collar on the cape is too stiff and even may stick up like Dracula in some cases. You can see this on the Darth Vader bookmark that used to be sold. Same figure run as this but weird collar.

    I also thought the paint they used for the faces on this run was a bit too silver.

    More photos?
     
  27. Zaphod Beeblebrox

    Zaphod Beeblebrox New Member

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    Welcome to the board, Darthjones.

    It's great that we have another person here who has first-hand experience with the things that we are trying to replicate and is willing to share their knowledge.

    Thanks for joining us.

    ZB
     
  28. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>darthjones wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>If I recall correctly, the black collar on the cape is too stiff and even may stick up like Dracula in some cases. You can see this on the Darth Vader bookmark that used to be sold. Same figure run as this but weird collar.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Ah, which reminds me!! I had a thread earlier asking about the collar and chain.
    I think our (at least my) tentative conclusion was this:

    CHAIN:
    - In all 3 movies a chain was used on the cape, except in ANH and ESB there was no hook on the chest armor therefore the chain was mainly under the helmet and therefore unnoticeable for the most part. In ROTJ a hook was placed on the chest armor therefore the chain became visible.
    - The black (plastic?) garden chain was the one used in the movies, and the chrome linked-chain seen on the Vis-Dict. and MOM Vader were never used on screen.

    COLLAR:
    - ANH and ROTJ definitely had a collar.
    - ESB? The shots I've seen seem to show that he didn't have a collar at all. Either that or it was pulled so much in that it was hidden under the helmet.

    Oh, and one more thing I noticed which I haven't discussed before. Regarding that collar that stands up like Dracula that you mentioned, I think I know which pic you are talking about. I see it on the Vader 12" Collector's Edition. My theory is that it stands up because the collar is a **straight** piece, therefore if you sew it onto the semi-circular hole in the neck part of the cape, it is bound to stick up.
    Therefore, I presume that the accurate collar is one which is itself semi-circular in shape instead of a straight piece, so it is the same 'shape' as the cape's neck hole and therefore continues to lay flat.

    What do you think of the above, Dr. Jones? [​IMG]
     
  29. Draco

    Draco New Member

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    Darth Jones, did you do any work on the Engergizer Bunny commercial that featured Vader? We had a big discussion about the lightsaber used in that commericial and whether it was made for the commericial, or if it was the saber displayed at the Barbicon exhibit in England.
     
  30. Flix4Me

    Flix4Me Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have it on good authority that all of the different versions of the chest box lettering are anagrams for:

    PROPERTY OF LUCASFILM, LTD.
    ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
     
  31. Darth Bill

    Darth Bill Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Oohyeah KL wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>COLLAR:

    - ESB? The shots I've seen seem to show that he didn't have a collar at all. Either that or it was pulled so much in that it was hidden under the helmet.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    KL, yer killin' me.... [​IMG]

    Said it before an' I'll say it again:

    Waaaaatch.... theeeeee.... moooooviiieeeeee.....

    When Vader's telling the Admiral that the Rebels are on Hoth, you can SEE the * collar...!! [​IMG]
    I *KNOW* you've got this film on *coughbootlegcough* DVD.... [​IMG]

    DON'T make me come all the way out to Hong Kong to school ya... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    Russ
     
  32. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a leather collar and plastic garden chain on every cape up there they consider to be movie accurate. There are also other photos I have from ESB with a leather collar.

    Oddly enough, a couple of the movie capes had a nylon cord back "behind" the plastic chain where you couldn't see it. I guess the plastic chain was not strong enough to hold the cape and was just draped on the front to look cool.

    But the black nylon cord was definately stretched tight.

    This was not on all the capes but seemed like a good system if you were going to be walking around. None of the mannequins had this to my knowledge. I could be wrong about that but they just seemed to have the plastic chain.

    There are capes up there without collars but they are rush jobs or stunt capes or whatever - not hero capes
     
  33. jme3

    jme3 Sr Member

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    Hi darthjones. It's great to have you here on the board. In deference to my laziness I'm posting a question here without filing all the way through the previous inquiries so you may have already answered it to some degree. Concerning the Vader reveal, though, would you have any ideas what are the origins of some of its detail items? We have an active project currently running here and so far we've identified a handful of the detail items used on the original but some obviously still have us stumped. For example, the "spider leg-crow's feet" -looking pieces on the forehead/temple area of the mask, the "piano keys" on the crown, the exact make of camera shutters used for the left/right eye pieces, and the gold discs inside the mask. I guess this is a pretty tall order but if you might have any insights into atleast one of these, that would be spectacular.

    Regards,
    JME3
     
  34. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    OK OK he has a collar in ESB!!!!
    (*he says, reluctantly, petrified at the mere thought of Russ coming to Hong Kong, whilst trying hard not to wonder why there's clearly no signs of a collar in several of the ESB movie stills...* [​IMG])

    So I assume everything else I said is correct then, like the fact that there's only a hook (for the cape-chain) on the ROTJ chest armor.

    OK, next question from me, Vader's inner cape:

    - You know the slit on the side of the inner cape where his arms go through - how far down his side does the slit extend?
    eg., does it extend all the way down to his belt like I see some of the Vader action figures do, or is the slit opening much smaller than that?
     
  35. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'll try for the two last posts here. I don't know JACK about the Vader Reveal. I have even had it on my head but couldn't tell you anything about it. What I like about that mask is that they cleaned up the face so much - straightening things out. By the way, does anyone have or know anything about the Vader Reveal that was on ebay from Japan a few months back?

    And the cape thing - To my knowledge Vader only had a cape hook in Jedi. That was more of a functional thing of course. I thought it looked weird but whatever. At least it keeps any actor from choking in that thing.

    If I get an ESB collar photo I'll post it. Same with any more Hebrewish stuff.
     
  36. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Darth Jones!
    Any idea on the inner cape slit for the arms?
     
  37. jme3

    jme3 Sr Member

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    Oh well, didn't hurt to ask I guess. Thanks anyway! [​IMG]

    JME3
     
  38. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Oh, thats right. I forgot. The arm hole was always very large and went down almost to the belt. You could always see the chest strap through it. Don't know the exact measurement but it was always a deep cut.

    How does one post an image on this crazy thing?
     
  39. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Here's the pic DJ wanted to post:

    [attachmentid=1177]

    Here are the pics which made me think the ESB had no collar:

    [attachmentid=1178]

    [attachmentid=1179]

    But regardless of these pics, I do submit, Russ, that there were at least certain scenes in ESB where you CAN see the collar.
     
  40. Flix4Me

    Flix4Me Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The last things I have to make for my display figure are the capes, the belt and the cod piece. Any detail info that might help me?
     
  41. Flix4Me

    Flix4Me Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    One other thing -

    What about David Prowse's boots? Were they custom made to fit his legs, or cut up?
     
  42. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    DJ, any idea on the coat size of Indy's jackets...?
     
  43. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    DJ, I scanned the PHWDC helmet pics but have not uploaded them yet. I will soon though--stay tuned!
     
  44. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Okay. Check this out - I'm sure that in some shots in all the films, Vader had a different cape on. That shot in ESB with all the bounty hunters is weird. Remember when Vader turns around to Fett and we see the back of the cape? It looks like material was added in with a big curved seam there, right? Proabably a screwed up cape they had to fix and maybe didn't have time for a collar. They just gathered it close under the helmet most likely.

    The best we can ever do is figure out the MOST consistently accurate version. Shoot, look how much the chest box changed from film to film. That was hardly planned. They just had more money for ESB and made it nicer and more detailed.

    As far as Prowse boots go? Don't know. Are you thinking of that leg brace? He didn't always have that. Probably had normal riding boots for the films.

    Don't know H. Ford's jacket size either. Someone at Indygear might now. Email them. They're usually dead on.

    And capes, belt boxes, and cods? Can you be more specific? There is some guy that makes an amazing cod piece but I forgot his name right now. Search the board for subject of Vader cod piece and a thread should come up.

    As far as the outer cape goes, I found a good one up there and layed it out on the floor to see how the pattern kind of went. Didn't have time to measure it but it was just over a half circle in size. If that makes sense. I don't know the exact degrees but just over a half circle or so.

    And the way they get it to hang open of course is by not sewing in any room for shoulders. It is just a flat piece of heavy wool lined with satin.
     
  45. Draco

    Draco New Member

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    The Vader Reval on eBay a few months back was fan made, and the buyer traded the seller a graflex for it! That seller got screwed.

    Anyway, I have pics of it, but they're not online. I'm sure someone here has pics of it already posted. Fellas? Anyone? Buller?

    DJ: any info on the Engergizer Bunny commericial you can offer?
     
  46. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think Vader probably had different capes on, at least in ESB.

    OK, while we're still on the cape, you know how when Vader turns around and walks away from the camera we can see like a 2" trim on the end of the cape?

    What is that?

    Some have said that it's a leather piece attached, others have said it's part of the inner satin lining. I think it's the latter. In fact, I was going to just have the inner satin lining 2" longer than the outer wool layer, and maybe fold it over and onto the wool layer and sew it on. Would this be accurate?

    Wookiee, regarding the layout of the cape, most of the websites dealing with this (eg., the 2 Vadermaker sites) advise that you cut out 6 isoceles triangles of 45 degrees (at the tip) each, sewn together at the isoceles sides so you have a 270 degree "pacman"-like cape.
    But I found that this was way too much when I put it on my Vader, so I took out one of the 45 degree triangular pieces, leaving my cape to be 225 degrees, and this works about right. (See my site for my Vader. I can actually close up the cape more if I wanted to, but I preferred to reveal more armor.)

    Regarding the codpiece, DJ, I think you might be referring to Dark Shadow (ickabel).
    I note you said the codpieces had an indentation on the oval piece of about 0.5", but do you think some of the codpieces had no indentation and was level with the outside?

    Look at this pic as an example:

    Doesn't seem to be an indentation. I see this on other pictures too, and I actually prefer this look. What do you think?
     
  47. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind that there were at least TWO codpieces. The one seen in the Chronicles is not the same as the one used in the ESB hyperbaric chamber/bridge choking scene. This codpiece has a very distinct bead or edge running along its edge.

    anyway DarthJones...question about the face paiting (Russ, bear with me bud) Where there any helmets that you can recall that had less severe two-tone paint jobs? Seems to me that there are a few scenes in which the "light cheek/dark cheek" kinda paintjob is very minimal, if not downright a homogenous shiny black paint job for various set lighting scenes.

    thanks
    Du
     
  48. darthjones

    darthjones Well-Known Member

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    Hey. Uhhh, thinking back on the codpieces - remember that these are "organic" props for lack of a better word. If you know anything about sewing you know that there has to be a seam along the bottom of this piece. Now, the seam might be cheated behind the front face a little bit or may slip into the front portion if its interior is not fully in synch with the allotted material. Make sense? Think of shifting around the interior of a leather car seat. The seams would migrate. That's all that is. I found cod pieces with seams across the bottom, to the back side of the bottom, and to the front side of the bottom. I also found some with no seams because the leather was just glued on with just foam on the back!

    And all the helmets had a two tone paint job. Some were a little less glossy so it looked more unified when I held it but they were all two tone. Those helmets appear ALL black on film unless a LOT of lighting is used. An all black Vader helmet looks gorgeous though. Its supposed to be all black in the story but they highlighted it with gun metal gray because it didn't show up on film too well. All black in person it looks great. I painted one this way before adding the gun metal and it was gorgeous in person.
     
  49. cking

    cking Sr Member

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    1,290
    Thanks for the info darthjones.

    Hopefully this has answered Durasteel Corporation's question about the two-tone paint once and for all. [​IMG]

    I've got two of my Vader helmet castings here at the momemnt. One of them is painted all Black because the customer wanted to add the gun metal grey himself. I'll take some photos of the all black helmet sitting next to the two-tone helmet so people can see the differences. I agree that it looks great in person but on film (and photos), the all black helmet just looks like a shiny black blob. [​IMG]

    I just want to thank you for sharing all this info with us. It's been incredibly informative.

    Kind regards,

    Chris
     
  50. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Hi DJ, did you have time to consider the questions I posed in my last post?
    ie., re the cape trim, and the codpiece hole?

    Thanks! [​IMG]
     

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