The DEFINITIVE VADER Q&A session - time to ARCHIVE?

[darthjones]

All of the armor at ILM was the same length in back which was the GT length. I found maybe 12 - 15 sets of armor up there but some with slightly different paint jobs on the shoulders.

ALL of them were wider than GT though. No question about it. I understand that GT made theirs from Rubie's and that one is the original "too narrow" I guess.

Hmmm. Next chance I get, I'll find out what the measurement is on real ILM armor, proper width, along the shoulder side. Get it? Along the entire side lenght where the shoulder attaches is what I'll ask about tomorrow if I can reach someone in particular. I really don't think there were two versions of armor but there are always surprises.

The armor in that photo with the three guys looks right to me. I'll look at the Ozzel scene tonight and trip on it.

This is fun.

 

[PHArchivist]

Jeesus criste, holy ****, hallelujah, it ******* worked!

So...

What's that curved section in the back?

 

[Oohyeah KL]

WHOAAAA!!!

Those are excellent pics!!!!!

Yeah, what's that thing at the back???

 

[darthjones]

****, I dunno. Thats all probably something to hold it up, right? Hmm. Well, we all know that there was nothing in the films like that. Also, on the bottom picture look underneath on the far right and you can see the back part of the armor. It looks GT length here too.

I have ESB on right now and watched Ozzel die. That looks like GT length also. Again, tomorrow I will try and get measurements of the lengths of the sides on a real one.

Notice also how the shoulders fit better when its not trimmed narrow like Rubie's/ GT. They are still a little wacky but much better.

 

[cking]

Hi guys,

Look at the last photo that PHArchivist posted. If you look at the back (inside) face of the shoulder on the right, you can see the bottom edge of the armor at the rear is lined up with the bottom inner edge of the shoulder bell. This does not happen on the G.T set that I had. This is intriguing.

KL - can you refresh my memory? Does the back of the GT armor line up with the back of the shoulder if you rotate the shoulder around so that it lines up at the front too?

darthjones - do you know if Rubies re-sculpted the shoulder bells and widened the neck opening? It appears that the Rubies / GT shoulder bells are too small and the neck opening is too big.

Thanks again for all the info!

Chris.

 

[Oohyeah KL]

Yes, well spotted.

No way on earth does the GT backs line up with the bells.
The PH pics are not like the GTs at all.

On my GT, for the back, the back is so short that the bells go down way past the back. (the backs do not go much further than the collar bone.)

For the front, the bells do not go down as far as the armor does, though the right bell goes down more than the left bell does.

DJ, like Chris said, my understanding is that the GT ones are based off the stunt, and was trimmed down on the sides to make it narrower, the back trimmed majorly, the neck hole was widened, and the bells were also trimmed along the edges.

Can you confirm this?

I therefore do not find it surprising at all that the PH pics are very different from the GTs since the PH ones are of a movie suit, except for that funny curved thing hanging in the middle.

btw, DJ, you said you're going to get measurements. Where from???
I'd love to know as detailed measurements as possible, because I will one day be altering my GT's so that it is wider and the bells line up, and maybe also make the neck hole smaller.

Thanks!!!

 

[darthjones]

It depends how busy they are tomorrow at ILM but that is who I am going to contact. Assuming my bud is working tomorrow. I think the Rubie's armor was vacuformed by the way. It was on the mannequin I examined. The neck hole has always been pretty big by the way. Remember that Dave Prowse had a big chest sticking out so that armor was lifted up and pushed back under the mask.

By the way, do any of you have the ESB Storybook? Therer is a meditation chamber photo in there where you can even see through the top of the neck.

I'll see what I can find out tomorrow. Maybe get a neck measurement too.

 

[cking]

You are THE MAN!

Can't wait to hear about your findings.

Thanks.

Chris.

 

[PHArchivist]

So DJ do you suppose tose PH pics were of screen-used armor?

Sorry about the quality guys. I'm currently re-scanning all my PH pics, and maybe sometime in the near future I may have cleaner pics.

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

DJ,

thanks for that little info on the paint job. I knew I wasnt completely nuts (and yes I have to agree, a solid but shiny black would be really cool). Ive worked on a few sets myself, having done historical armor, most recently for a Joan of Arc film. The most interesting detail was that the polish was actully too shiny so we had to dull it down with black shoe polish. The difference between set lighting and "real" life is something I dont think a lot of folks consider. In most cases, historical movie armor has to be dulled because the reflection would be piercing and block out the actor on camera.

Im still not quite sold on the codpiece thing though.

Just by looking at the inset area, its clear that there were variations. BUT I DO AGREE, clearly the initial ones were found objects and subject to stretching, rolling over etc.
Ya know, ask your connections if they can find a makers tag or label on the original cod pieces. Maybe we could find an original floating about if we had a company to contact.


--------
On the subject of the chest armor. Guys, seriously, while the GT sides are trimmed a bit, the real stuff does not extend down that far in back, even if it was also trimmed there a bit. Darthjones is right, Prowse had a big chest and it 'kicked' or 'rolled' the armor over his shoulders, making it look longer. I can offer you my two cents by means of my own size...I am 6'7 and very big...the chest armor would be virtually impossible to move in if it were significant longer in back. How the hell would Prowse or Anderson for that matter (who was a slighter fella) even move? As it is, the chest armor is very restrictive, even for us big chaps. Im not saying that a little bit couldnt be added to the arm length but I wouldnt add more than .5 of an inch. Also, look at the shots of Vader from behind, note how one arm or the other of the arms of that chest plate is/are higher and more curved than the other.

Also, look at the ESB picture of Vader sitting is his hyperbaric chamber. His shoulder plates are clearly extending out from the chest armor. Again, if the shoulder armor matched the opening of the real chest armor, I doubt that they would be able to fit under it. The armor made for Bob Anderson appears to have been glued or more securely attached to the chest armor because Andersons frame was not as wide and he needed the width. Thats what Ive picked up anyway.

 

[cking]

Drew,

PLEEEEEEEEEASE show us some photos of you in your Vader armor. It's been said MANY times before that photos of you in costume would be invaluable reference. The only way we can truly compare these items against the Prowse costume is to see some photos of someone who is Prowse size wearing the G.T armor and chest box etc.

I look forward to pics - I've been asking you about these on and off for AGES.

Chris.

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Hey Ck,

Yeah I know, Ive been kinda busy lately. Ill try to get to it some time this week. At the least, youll get an idea of the tilting of the chest plate. Can I email you the pix? I cant ever seem to upload photos onto one of those photo sites.
D

 

[cking]

Hi Drew,

Great. Sure - go ahead and email the pics to me. I'll host 'em for you.

My email is: christopher.king2@virgin.net

Thanks.

Chris.

 

[Reel Fakes]

From the ESB Storybook:
<center><img src=http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=660416&size=lg>

 

[darthjones]

Okay, people. I have some good measurements here. He did them while we were on the phone so I was able to get a lot.

First of all, remember that the neck was always big. Look at the PH set against red. The mask is INSIDE the armor. Look also at the ESB sequence with the reveal helmet - the mask is INSIDE the armor.

That said, here are some measurements:

The armor, from the front, along the bottom is about 17 1/2 inches, poin to point.

The arm hole on Vader's right, along the edge, is 14 1/2 inches front to back.

The arm hole on Vader's left, along the edge, is 14 3/4 inches front to back.

The width of the opening in the back is about 9 1/2 inches across near the bottom but pretty much parallel up and down.

The interior edge of the back opening, from the bottom of one side into the neck, around, and back down the other side is almost exactly 30 inches.

My prediction is that GT armor is the same except for the width in front. Of course the arm holes will be bigger too because their trimming cut into a tapered prop.

Let me know if I'm right. I don't have any GT here right now.

 

[TK765]

GT measurements:

The armor, from the front, along the bottom is about 14 3/4 inches, poin to point.

The arm hole on Vader's right, along the edge, is 13 1/2 inches front to back.

The arm hole on Vader's left, along the edge, is 13 inches front to back.

The width of the opening in the back is about 11 1/2 inches across near the bottom.

The interior edge of the back opening, from the bottom of one side into the neck, around, and back down the other side is around 25 inches.

By the way does anyone know what Dave Prowse measurements were for sure????

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Ill have to take measurements of my GT as well but it appears as though the GT has been trimmed. No big deal, this should be fixed quite easily so as to return it to its fully glory.

Regarding the pic with the GAP arrow....thats still consistent with the GT plate. When leaning over, without a cape to hold it back the armor will tilt forward a bit, creating that gap. Ill see if I can recreate that picture and post it.

Durasteel

 

[darthjones]

Wow. All of that surprises me. Does anyone know what the measurements are on the Cameron Oakley armor? It appears to be movie cast ESB or thats what I am told.

Just to be doubly sure, the guy measuring this thing today was tracing the edges with his tape measure on the arm holes and along the back opening, in along the neck and out. He was, alternately, just measuring width when it came to the measurement across the front and the width of the opening in back.

 

[Flix4Me]

But trimmed how/where?

The ends? The middle, etc.? Are the raised/indented panels the correct size, or are they scaled down?

 

[Oohyeah KL]

I also got similar measurements on my GT, though not identical. The differences are:

Armor width (point to point) - 15"
Back opening width - 10"

Thanks so much for those measurements, DJ!!! It's invaluable for the day I alter my armor.

I'm very surprised though that the back of the movie armor does not seem to be significantly longer than the GTs.

That would necessarily mean that the shoulder bells would not line up at the back, but only the front!!
Now that's news to me.

Guess if I were to modify my armor, this is all I would do:

- Extend the width on both sides
- elongate the sides of the bells

Probably leave the neck hole the same, huh?