TFA Graflex Research (That's a Graflex, right? Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)

[roygilsing]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

The bases also seem to match the curvature of the flash, vs. the more or less straight ones with an adhesive channel from the OT.

Hmmm.. I don't agree; it does look very similar and the edges come of the surface a bit.

 

[AnubisGuard]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

If anything, it looks like they might have flat bottoms, with no channel at all. The profile reminds me a lot of the t-track that Saberfreak sells. (Used to sell?)

 

[Luuke]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

Ok I'm gonna throw in my observations.

Clamp: This is obviously a reproduction. I don't think it's an original with some sort of tape covering it. You'd see slight depressions where Graflex would be if it were. You'd also see deformities along the edges where the "tape" would be trimmed There's nothing like that in the photos. In addition the color of the metal is way off. More brassy looking. This is definitely a repro.

Graflex Top: Now this is the part you're gonna have to bare with me on. I know many people have said they've purchased real Graflex's. HOWEVER, I own several originals and repros. There's something that keeps drawing my attention and that's the top inside of the unit. Look at how the inside has a slight crayzing to it. That's when the surface isn't polished correctly before it's plated. None of my originals have that crayzing look. The one repro that does have that are the Park's Graflex repros I own. I think the prop in those particular photos are Park's. That and the finish seems a bit too bright for the standard Graflex units I've seen.

Glass eye: One photo definitely shows the knurling removed. Another it's clearly there.

Don't forget kiddies, they purchased probably at least a dozen or so. Some I'm sure were originals and some were repro's. That is not an unreasonable assumption. Some would be filming heroes, some stunts, some for display in traveling museum shows and some on display at the many Disney parks. One thing is for sure, they are not all of them are made with original parts. They're going to be an amalgamation of original and repro parts.

 

[VeryExciting]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

So, how would it be decided what is definitive?

 

[adiemilio]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

Ok I'm gonna throw in my observations.

Clamp: This is obviously a reproduction. I don't think it's an original with some sort of tape covering it. You'd see slight depressions where Graflex would be if it were. You'd also see deformities along the edges where the "tape" would be trimmed There's nothing like that in the photos. In addition the color of the metal is way off. More brassy looking. This is definitely a repro.

Graflex Top: Now this is the part you're gonna have to bare with me on. I know many people have said they've purchased real Graflex's. HOWEVER, I own several originals and repros. There's something that keeps drawing my attention and that's the top inside of the unit. Look at how the inside has a slight crayzing to it. That's when the surface isn't polished correctly before it's plated. None of my originals have that crayzing look. The one repro that does have that are the Park's Graflex repros I own. I think the prop in those particular photos are Park's. That and the finish seems a bit too bright for the standard Graflex units I've seen.

Glass eye: One photo definitely shows the knurling removed. Another it's clearly there.

I also have put mylar tape on the clamps, you do get the depression but not when it has "just been" put on, only after handling after a while they start to appear, if it is a thick covering it is less probable they will show.

There are a lot of people (myself included) who take a lot of care in the details and putting the tape perfectly is not a big issue, you also don't see any satin finish on it like in the rest of the flash, it would be a little difficult to get it right on tape, or you can use an exacto blade and have a clean cut.

About the top, you can notice with the screw above the glass eye, it's correct for a vintage flash and not for a parks, also I own one of the early vintage flashes with the matte finish glasseye and broad boarders around the glass, and the shine is definitely brighter than on the parks, I tried to polish the parks to get the same shine but it was impossible due to the thin layer of chrome it has, I was almost getting to the brass. Check out this thread were this matter has been discussed of different shines in originals. http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=144206

 

[newmagrathea]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

My 2 cents on this clamp is that it's a reproduction. The metal looks different and I don't think it's a surface layer. The reason I don't think it's a surface layer is because of the horizontal engraved lines are still quite visible and perfect looking. If the surface layer is true then they probably filled in the embossed Graflex text and then put the veneer layer over it. I just think that it would be easier to make a replica clamp or buy one vs modifying a real one. We still don't know if this is an actual screen used piece yet. I'm going to hang tight on trying to build this until the details are clear.

 

[AnubisGuard]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

I don't think it's tape, but I do think the clamp is covered with something. Mainly because we can a.) see what looks like seams along the edge where the cover meets the clamp, and b.) the golden color is confined to the clamp body only. The bars, lever, and rest of the sheet metal that form the control box are all the normal Graflex color.

The clamp appears to my eye to be too thick as well. I think they took thin sheet metal, rolled it into a C-shape, engraved faux Graflex lines in it, and slid and/or glued it over the clamp.

 

[Kylash]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

To me it looks like a thin engraved plate wrapped around the clamp, like super thin adhesive backed aluminum that's been cut to size and had the lines lazer cut. Just something they could have easily whipped up and wrapped around the clamp, but thicker than just using mylar tape.

You'll also notice that whatever is around most of the clamp doesnt cary over to the side bars OR the activation switch clamps. If the whole thing was a repro, wouldnt it all be the same color? That makes me think something else is wrapped around the main body, and stops up under the sidebars.



And i think I'm seeing a change in thickness and finish right here, where that second layer would stop.



In the end it comes down to what is most likely. Is a prop guy gonna spend the time and money to reproduce and copy something that is fine as is aside from the stamp on it, or just find a quick way to cover up that Graflex logo and call it a day?

EDIT:

Something similar to this could be used, thick enough to not see the engraving underneath, but thin enough to wrap around the clamp. 3M Scotchprint Titaniuml Vinyl Flex Wrap, but without the brushed texture of course.

​

 

[Lichtbringer]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

I still don´t believe in any covering material.

Putting my money on a repro clamp, that might have been a tad to big, then a inner liner was put under.

Much easierand faster to do than all the outer veneer procedure.

 

[AnubisGuard]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

If that's the case, how do you explain the different parts of the clamp being different colors?

 

[Lichtbringer]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

Direction of light and view.

The clamp i have mentioned/posted some post above has the perfect Graflex shine when at a certain angle, but at closer inspection i noticed it has different shines from different angles.
So the real Graflex bars i used on it look most of the time slighly different then the metal band itself.

 

[veektohr]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

I still don´t believe in any covering material.

Putting my money on a repro clamp, that might have been a tad to big, then a inner liner was put under.

Much easierand faster to do than all the outer veneer procedure.

Or just to remove the slight bit of play you get on most flashes. None of mine clamp down perfectly in the sense that there's no way to spin each side in place a little. Maybe that was just bothering them, so they added a little inner liner to get a tighter seal...

 

[scottjua]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

Or just to remove the slight bit of play you get on most flashes. None of mine clamp down perfectly in the sense that there's no way to spin each side in place a little. Maybe that was just bothering them, so they added a little inner liner to get a tighter seal...

You know they're adjustable right? Or do you mean they won't adjust for you?

 

[adiemilio]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

Or just to remove the slight bit of play you get on most flashes. None of mine clamp down perfectly in the sense that there's no way to spin each side in place a little. Maybe that was just bothering them, so they added a little inner liner to get a tighter seal...

You remove the top and bottom from the clamp, and press it with your hands while holding the sides in so the square part of the lever comes out, then you rotate the lever either way to tighten or losen up.

 

[veektohr]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

You know they're adjustable right? Or do you mean they won't adjust for you?

You remove the top and bottom from the clamp, and press it with your hands while holding the sides in so the square part of the lever comes out, then you rotate the lever either way to tighten or losen up.

Yeah, I know they're adjustable, but mine have never been able to get to something I'd say was "perfectly tight." : /

 

[adiemilio]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

To me it looks like a thin engraved plate wrapped around the clamp, like super thin adhesive backed aluminum that's been cut to size and had the lines lazer cut. Just something they could have easily whipped up and wrapped around the clamp, but thicker than just using mylar tape.

You'll also notice that whatever is around most of the clamp doesnt cary over to the side bars OR the activation switch clamps. If the whole thing was a repro, wouldnt it all be the same color? That makes me think something else is wrapped around the main body, and stops up under the sidebars.

View attachment 557361

And i think I'm seeing a change in thickness and finish right here, where that second layer would stop.

View attachment 557360

In the end it comes down to what is most likely. Is a prop guy gonna spend the time and money to reproduce and copy something that is fine as is aside from the stamp on it, or just find a quick way to cover up that Graflex logo and call it a day?

EDIT:

Something similar to this could be used, thick enough to not see the engraving underneath, but thin enough to wrap around the clamp. 3M Scotchprint Titaniuml Vinyl Flex Wrap, but without the brushed texture of course.

View attachment 557390
​

It looks like it's available in the proper finishes, would just need to add the 4 lines on each side.

 

[Luuke]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

You do realize a screw can be changed right? That still doesn't account for the different finish on the inside top. I'll post a picture later so you can see a side by side difference.

About the top, you can notice with the screw above the glass eye, it's correct for a vintage flash and not for a parks, http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=144206

 

[Bluebox303]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

I feel as if the bars and the lever are from a vintage flash clamp. If there was some sort of coating on the clamp, the two distinct layers would be visible throughout the clamp. The sections pointed out with the arrows could simply be stamping artifacts that were left there. As for the different thicknesses, metal gets stretched when it is being formed, so it would be natural to have a slightly different thickness where there is a crease in the metal. Although the thickness variation may not be present on vintage flashes, the repro clamp I own exhibits this trait.

Not an expert on anything, just my .2

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

I've heard for years that ILM had a stockpile of ICONS Luke sabers in the archives, I wonder if it's a real flash with an ICONS clamp for no logo.

Not the best photo, but I remembered I have a pic of the ICONS Luke from Philip Wise's collection and you can see how the finish has darkened on his from shiny silver to a grey color.

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?

Why couldn't they just use some mylar tape :unsure

- - - Updated - - -

You know what....for how ****ty (accuracy wise) the Icons replicas were, they sure became valuable for some weird ass reason.