Terminator: Genisys

[The Terminator]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

T1 : Specifically states one Terminator came through, Kyle

...I guess you are the one who haven't seen the films :lol

Kyle was "just" a soldier that didn't have all the information... like he says at the police station. Kyle was also sent through time before T2-arnie got sent back. So as far as Kyle knows:

"No one else comes through, no one goes back"

And he was right about that from a certain point of view.

The one who stated "no ray guns" was again Kyle, who didn't know how the time displacement device worked. "He didn't build the f-ing thing" like he says

continuing from TS

Nobody in their right mind would do that, ever.

But the thing is, T1, T2, T3 and TS are all existing movies in the same universe

lol haha no way.

and the tv series was a joke.

Perhaps, but it was still a trillion TRILLION times better than T3 and TS combined.

And I keep forgetting to mention that T3 didnt look like a Terminator film. It was plain, generic, no atmosphere. It looked more like a sitcom than a movie. At any moment I expected the A-Team or Knight Rider to roll up.

Exact same things can be said about TS.

Conner

Connor

Your missing the main point, you cannot create something from nothing.

Actually you can, Stephen Hawking says so

and it can't come from things that don't exist.

It's called a Paradox for a reason

The first John Conner ceased to exist

This isn't Back to the Future :lol people/things don't just vanish into thin air.

Please name one thing scientists have made from nothing? They mixed nothing and nothing and got what?

If you keep on using the movie as evidence then you will never get what i am saying. Step away from Camerons dream world and enter reality. You cannot make anything from nothing.

Yes, you can as stated by myself and Too Much Garlic. You don't read much do you? Or check science news? Watch Discovery Channel?

John knows what Sarah told him, which came from what John told Reese and that came from what Reese told Sarah. Which Sarah told john that john told reese that then told sarah. What a bunch of Cameron bunk. It's just a big loop with no begining and why it holds no water in reality.

P-A-R-A-D-O-X, please look it up.. or better yet just click on any of these:

paradox - definition of paradox by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Paradox | Define Paradox at Dictionary.com

Paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So are the novels and comics... easily ignored if you want to.

I think you have to ignore T3 and TS. The idiots who wrote them made it impossible to try and make them "canon".

I'm sorry, but I simply don't get your argument.

I agree

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Actually you can, Stephen Hawking says so

Ill believe that when he makes a working body out of nothing. Until then its Terminator time arguments for everyone.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Yeah, theory is one thing.

I would like to try and explain my reason for thinking as I do. I once thought the point of origin to a time travel story was the point where the time traveler gets into the time machine to go back through time. I have later come to the conclusion that that is how many view the start of a time travel event. That thought in my view is a fatally flawed one for very simple reasons. It is the time the traveler travels to that is the origin point and please hear me out before screaming bloody murder.

Time is linear, it progresses in the present second by second, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, month by month, year by year, and so on. Time reaches the point you are traveling to first, so everything you do there, if it was written down, taped, photographed, filmed, whatever, you would be able to know before even getting into the time machine to travel back to do it.

Let's for good measure call the point where you get into the time machine "Point A" and the time you travel to for "Point B". If you travel to the past, time will reach "Point B" before it reaches "Point A". So if you are walking down the street when you are young and an old man walks up to you and punch you in the face "Point B", you will grow up, grow old, get into a time machine "Point A" and go back in time and walk up to a young kid and punch him in the face "Point B".

So, when realizing that time is linear and that the present reaches the year 1984 first. The time travel adventure doesn't start with what most would perceive as a logically concluded beginning with getting into the time machine to travel back in time. Because, that time isn't the present. That's the future. And the present haven't caught up to that point in time yet. Some seem to think that "Point A" has to happen first for "Point B" to be able to happen. You just have to accept that "Point B" is reached by the present first, so happens first, before the time traveler even sets "Point A" in motion.

So the logical conclusion is, when thinking about it for a while, that the time travel event begins at the point traveled TO and not the point traveled FROM. So in essence, you CAN be your own father. If you didn't know that prior to going back in time, then it was because your mother was lying to you and your father for whatever reason.

And with the example above with killing the grandfather. That wouldn't stop you from being born, 'cause if you were able to travel back in time, that means someone other than who you were told were your biological grandfather impregnated your grandmother, 'cause no way it was a virginal birth - just means she was a **** and lied about it for whatever reasons.

To explain that one, it goes back to the above scenario with you being slapped and growing up and getting into a time machine and go slap yourself. It's fixed. Before you get into the time machine, "Point A", what you are gonna do in the past, "Point B", has already happened. That's why it's called the past. It has passed and is no longer present.

Follow?

...I guess you are the one who haven't seen the films :lol
Kyle was "just" a soldier that didn't have all the information... like he says at the police station. Kyle was also sent through time before T2-arnie got sent back.

He saw THE FILM. Not Films.

As that's where the T2 time travel logic fails. T2 happened in John's youth, so before Kyle was sent back to 1984, which means John should know both events and be able to tell Kyle about both prior to him going back in time, so that he could also prepare Sarah for when the second one came, instead of having it be a complete shock as it was!

And don't give me that line that it's a new past... it isn't supposed to be... so why wasn't Reese told? Simply... because T2 is just jammed into a closed story that had a beginning, middle and end and didn't leave room for anything else. And as you say: Reese was just a soldier, so go by the facts he's telling, not his theories about time and relativity, as he clearly knows jack about those things, which he also clearly states. The message is also used as proof that the future can be changed but it is nothing more than a pep-talk from a future son to his mother to boost a scared young girl's hopes and will to fight and not so much truth about the correct state of things. You don't want to crush her soul, now, do you? Same as a general telling his men that they'll be victorious on a suicide mission with zero chance of survival.

Though, if you wanna go with that. The reason John DIDN'T tell Reese about the events in T2 was then perhaps again to not destroy Sarah's hopes for the future... that's about the only thing I can come up with that justifies the existence of T2. The other movies, not so much. And seeing as he already knew they'd survive it... maybe he didn't see a point to worry either Reese or Sarah... but that just makes him rather unsympathetic as a character, which again brings me back to the point that any of the sequels just don't make sense with the first movie.

 

[ONEYE]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Time/space is very bothersome. They say it's linear, moves forward, it's constantly moving, it doesn't stop. That's cool and all, but it should also be able to move backward. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You are looking at a time line, left starts the line and it keeps moving forward, to the right. Oh, I'm going to look dumb, but what the hell, what if the line ends, what if past, present and future all happen at the same time? It all depends on where in space/time you are in any moment. What if time is a loop, the line isn't a line at all? What if the line is a rubber band, it stretches, but at some point it snaps back and all goes in reverse? How does time travel work then? Let's say you can go back in time, then I ask if we can "jump" back, why not jump forward. Can we go to the future, see what's up, go back to the past (present) and change things so the future turns out differently? (Some of this comes from T:TSCC. For example, John Connor jumps to the future, sees his father and uncle, but they don't have a clue as to who he is.) Confusing as hell. Go ahead and hit me with the bat. I can take it.

:behave

Edit - I'll go have a cookie.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Maybe John just didn't want to risk it. I always assumed that he knew that Kyle didn't know he was his father. If you tell someone they HAVE to to do the beast with two backs with THIS particular waitress and then throw 'em in the time rings... Well maybe it would no longer happen on its own, or maybe not at all.

I'm a huge fan of the original, and I always enjoy T2. I think I've only seen T3 twice. And I actually think TS is okay.

Frankly, I think what is most important is what were used to... a chase movie.

T1
T800 chases SC

T2
T1000 chases JC

T3
Terminatrix chases JC

Now Salvation is different. It's a war movie... and it really looks/feels like one. Now I would have preffered to have seen things I've read here that were cut entirely. Hybrids. Marcus is from the future. T700s. Yeah that's more like it.

It's a tragedy fans rejected TS because I guess it killed the franchise. I remember my buddy making fun of the T600s. He didn't even know Kyle talked all about them in T1. TS at least LOOKS like what Kyle described.

 

[ONEYE]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I just don't see how a Terminator 5 movie could be made following any, some, or all of the previous movies. If TS was a "war movie" it was of limited scope, short duration, small unit(s). It wasn't much of a war. I was hoping for something larger in scope, as I've said before, something that the first 3 movies hinted at with short scenes.

If there were multiple aerial HKs, HK tanks, endoskeletons out the wazoo, humans, steel, I would have had a endogasm. Instead, I got minor hydraulic excitement action at seeing a few T-600s.

Oh, hated the Transformer-like "Harvestor" and "moto-terminators". "Hydro-Terminators", really? They must having been doing drugs with some of these ideas.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Don't get me wrong I'm not exactly sticking up for TS but I think a lot of people would have liked it more had they not had he subconscious chase expectation in their head. The whole thing is still a missed opportunity, expectations or not.

So when's the next one? I want more Terminator.

 

[ONEYE]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I wish I knew when the next one will be. I just hope that I'm (and others) are at least 80% happy with it. You know they'll screw up at least 20% in some way. Just as you know people will complain about it no matter what they do.

 

[Zombie Killer]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Yes, you can as stated by myself and Too Much Garlic. You don't read much do you? Or check science news? Watch Discovery Channel?

Yes i live in a closet, please give me an example of something scientists have created from nothing.

 

[Wolfie138]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

...I guess you are the one who haven't seen the films :lol

Kyle was "just" a soldier that didn't have all the information... like he says at the police station. Kyle was also sent through time before T2-arnie got sent back. So as far as Kyle knows:



And he was right about that from a certain point of view.

The one who stated "no ray guns" was again Kyle, who didn't know how the time displacement device worked. "He didn't build the f-ing thing" like he says

all of which is you making assumptions to try and justify T2 and not what the actual WRITERS wrote to make the script/story of T1. i guess for the sake of this thread we'll just assume you knew better than them.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I just don't see how a Terminator 5 movie could be made following any, some, or all of the previous movies. If TS was a "war movie" it was of limited scope, short duration, small unit(s). It wasn't much of a war. I was hoping for something larger in scope, as I've said before, something that the first 3 movies hinted at with short scenes.

If there were multiple aerial HKs, HK tanks, endoskeletons out the wazoo, humans, steel, I would have had a endogasm. Instead, I got minor hydraulic excitement action at seeing a few T-600s.

Oh, hated the Transformer-like "Harvestor" and "moto-terminators". "Hydro-Terminators", really? They must having been doing drugs with some of these ideas.

Following in the footsteps and adhering the rules set up in T1 - HELL YES.
Following in the footsteps of T1 and T2 - ACCEPTABLE
Wasting any time with that illogical nonsense mess called T3 - UNACCEPTABLE

And that's where it is. Flying HK's, HK tanks, maybe the small scale tank like T1 or whatever they are called as infantry. YES. Terminators. NO, not at all, unless the movie takes place at the very end of the war. In war, something that's more than 6 months to a year old out on the battlefield is simply NOT called new. So though the movie will be a Terminator movie, if it takes place during the beginning of the aftermath of the nuclear holocaust, you won't see Terminators at all. Even the 600 series is described as rather new and they should LOOK human, but in size and shape, but spotted by their rubber skin.

T-800 and the likes... all the way near the end of the war.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

T1
T800 chases SC

T2
T1000 chases JC

T3
Terminatrix chases JC

Actually in T3 it was to erase JC's future hierarchy and generals. It was only when the horrible idea for a Terminator the Terminatrix licks some blood off a bandage on the floor of a veterinarians office that it pee's a little and the JC chase is on. Going back to how one reaction can change the future, JC crashed his bike when a deer was on the road in front of him. If that deer had went left instead of right, if JC had rode 1mph slower just an hour before, had someone shot that deer a week before...
Regardless, as I keep mentioning the future end all date is set. I that deer had not been there, something else would have made things happen. This is even spoken of in T3 itself as "Mike Cryptkey's closet".

I understand some dont accept anything after T1 to be a Terminator film, thats fine. Reality is there is a T2, T3 and T4. After all I dont accept the Star Wars prequels as Star Wars movies so I can relate. I just dot bother to read or post in threads about those movies minus the "sucks" comment and move on.
TS had the complete opportunity to make everything right with explanations falling in place by the end of T5 with the set end all date happening in T6. Does anyone recall the point after the TS teaser trailer that T5 was given the go ahead? This was before the final edit of TS.


Some earlier said TS didnt have atmosphere yet it did. Problem is much of it was washed out in CGI and cut practically for CGI work in post. Thats one thing I find very silly since people went through extremes to have sets done yet it was all CGI'ed out in most areas. TS was shot on film with, if memory serves, a high silver content which is why everyones teeth are so video game ish.

For an example of what it looked like before CGI and such, notice some scenes have haze and atmosphere but its removed later:
Pixel Liberation Front - Previsualization - Visual Effects

 

[SPS]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Watched Salvation again today. As I've said before, in its own right, it's a good movie. As already mentioned, it's the preconceived expectation that it would be another 'chase' film, which it was not. It was a times a little slow, but over all wasn't bad and I wouldn't be against the idea of integrating the Marcus character into the next movie, provided it's done correctly...

 

[Sean Hebein]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Is anyone elses mind blown by this thread?

 

[TheRealMcFly]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

The only parts of this thread that really blow my mind is what was left out of TS.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Marcus would return towards the end of T5. JC would die possibly in a failed raid to capture the rumored time machine. This is where the talk of the time machine usage and such would kick in. It would be an alternate, yet the same, Marcus. Being a hybrid his DNA is on file to replicate. After all he was chosen to be a hybrid due his stong, for lack of a better term "genes" ("you have a strong heart Marcus", "give him my heart...", "your special, only you could do what Skynet has failed to do..."). Marcus' end roll and purpose in the time line is to to upload the technology info to Skynet to build its time machine but could only do so when the time machine became a reality in the future present. Again that future present is the end all time line when the time machine is destroyed and Skynet shut down. Its no longer the time frame Kyle speaks of in T1 just as Judgment Day didnt happen in T2, nor JC and Kate meet in the closet... Reset or alter the past and something else will take its place just as if you dont go into work, the world still turns. Eventually someone will step in and take over your job if you stop going in. "No fate but what we make it" yet the line "its in your nature to destroy yourselves" from T2 comes back into play. You mix machines with humans to make a hybrid you are now giving a machine access to that dark humanity side and now fate is decided by a combination of calculations and insecurity. T3 already cemented that software in cyberspace calculated the best way to take out its enemies was to attack their enemies. In an odd way everything comes to be explained with simple thought of the end all time frame.

Marcus would then help JC Jr and Kyle on a successful mission in T6 to overtake and destroy the time machine AFTER they send Kyle back. John Connor is the savior, but its JC Jr. The thought was to have Jr roughly the same age as JC Sr in T2. I forget that age but wasnt it 12 or 14? If JC Jr is born in 2019, then he would be about 13 in 2032 which is the end all time frame.

Even the "I was chosen due to your childhood memories" comes into play. Due to Marcus' help, they learn how to capture and over ride Terminators. The dont just have the T800 but T700's and all below fighting for the resistance in T6. You would also have hybrids choosing sides so Skynets infrastructure is compromised. When JC Sr is killed in T5, the T800 that killed him is captured and over ridden. "If you were to die I would have no purpose" so the T800 could in fact simply shut down after JC Sr is killed. They could in theory walk right up to the T800 and go to work programming him to protect JC Jr. At that point, JC Jr is viewed as the "why didnt I think of that" savior. At the end of T6 when the time machine time travel actually happens, the T800 is fighting a T800, even odds for the first time in a Terminator movie. Both sides are going at it, the T800 makes his way into the time machine back to 1984, Kyle goes too, the resistance shuts down Skynet but at what cost. As mentioned the sky is black, the land is scorched and everyone sterile from all the radiation and nuclear attacks.


Then for some reason McG thought it a good idea to maybe base T5 on JC going back to 90's London to help build an army against the future Skynet. Thats just as much a head scratcher and shows someone may so so far removed from the franchise as I was watching TS for the first time in the theater scratching my head wondering what happened to the movie that was being filmed when this (the theatrical release) was happening before my eyes.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Well, the Reese and Terminator going back in time after TS would NOT link to Reese and Terminator seen in T1, so, they would in effect have to show THAT movie too, 'cause you can't just pop on T1 after that ret-conned, altered mess that happened in the later movies. Reese would have all-knew knowledge to tell Sarah, as nearly ALL his facts in the T1 timeline future isn't what is seen in the later movies. That's a whole other timeline, disconnected from T1 completely.

So... when Reese and the Terminator go through the time machine... they have to go make that movie then? That's usually what happens when you screw up continuity and don't think things through before putting it up on screen. Instead of trying to adhere to what's already established, we get these talks, and the filmmakers come up with silly explanations to why things are different, when they could just have been better at not making crap.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

The only way to explain this mess is: they ****ed up big time.

 

[SSgt Burton]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

For an example of what it looked like before CGI and such, notice some scenes have haze and atmosphere but its removed later:
Pixel Liberation Front - Previsualization - Visual Effects

Wow! :confused

(No sarcasm at all here)- I had no idea there was that much colour correction et al done in post!

Rob- that is some incredible information on TS! Definitely not the film we got.

This reminds me of the original concepts for Star Trek V. Because of budget/time constraints and conflicts among the actors, the movie that was made (and very bad) was very different to what was originally imagined.

So like your Star Wars prequels comment, I can relate as well. Frankly from what I read, I would have much rather seen the original movie. The movie we got was a mess.

It was mentioned that some might have expected another "chase" film. Personally I didn't expect a chase movie at all. What I expected was something along the lines of what Oneye mentioned- basically a two hour movie like the future war scenes of T1 and T2.

However the Future War flashbacks occur near the end of the war, (when the resistance was much more organized and on the verge or winning) so we couldn't have "that" movie yet (hopefully we will eventually).

I too couldn't stand the bigass harvester thingy (something that size "snuck up" on the garage? Really?), and didn't care for the motorcycle terminators and hydro terminators- seemed like they were capitalizing on the success of Transformers.

I nearly walked out of this film halfway through (I think around the point that Blair helps Marcus escape), but figured that "it couldn't get any worse" and stayed until the end...




Kevin

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I agree, TS, for the life of me, is utter confusion. Keep in mind much of what im saying was not on paper but spoken word yet much spoken of for TS was either filmed or scrapped due to budget and time issues. The hybrid story was partially filmed in great detail just the same with the T700. Im not entirely certain why it was scrapped but I do know scenes for reshoots and pick ups with Helena Bonham Carter were limited due to personal reasons. This is whay she went from a physical character to a computer image at the end.

The original green lighted TS script was a serious joke in parts. As much as people rag on Bale as JC, without his involvement and insistence on being JC which lead to the film going in another direction, that joke would have indeed happened. This was to have the T800's as golf caddies, construction worker T700's, artificial skies.... JC was only in TS as a voice of the resistance until the end where he was shown for maybe five minutes. The plot revolved around Marcus and his journey. Bale was sought out to be Marcus.

I also strongly agree, the Terminator sequels have not been thought through very well if at all but serious thought went into solving these issues and a long term three film trilogy was in place to tie everything together as best as possible. In regards to sending the T800 and Kyle back, it has to happen or T1 never will. The trick of time travel and the sequels realistically means Uncle Bob, the Terminatrix, the T1000, the T850... all also have to go back. It doesnt mean they have to go back after the timeline of T1. They can go back BEFORE that time line. This is where the failed attempt to acquire the rumored time machine in T5 would come into play. Its a movie, they have twists, it could be the original T800 went back any time before Kyle yet when Kyle does go back to T1 he is sent at a different point in time. Kyle could be sent back in T6 yet the T800 went back in T5. Those types of twists could have made things real interesting and worthy of a rewatch.
Again, anything outside of TS and some of the TS mentioned was all talk. Unless someone thats put serious thought to bringing it all together as best as possible in a long term story, its not worth continuing the franchise. The opportunity was there and in motion. Im with everyone else with WTF happened?