Superman II, The Richard Donner Cut...
- Thread starter cboath
- Start date
Im so glad this cut was not in theaters to begin with
This cut is soooo much better than the Lester joke we got back in the day. I love how Salkind tries to say that all of the good stuff in the movie was filmed by Lester - but in truth it was Donner. Gene Hackman was interviewed not long after they released the Donner cut and he said he never worked 1 day with Lester and all of his stuff was Donner - Reeve threatened to walk after what they did to Donner but he was under contract and was told he'd be sued - Donner advised him to go back and play the part for the kids who now truly believed he was Superman. Before he was replaced Donner and Mank were ready to come back and do part 3 and 4, Mank stating they wanted to do something with Braniac - man, what could have been.
steveo
Sr Member
Gotta agree with you JB. The Donner version actually feels more like Superman than the comedic/cheesefest Lester version.
maboot38
Well-Known Member
I grew up loving Superman I, II, and III (not IV), but I must say that the Donner cut of II is the one for me. Looking back, I was a a spectacular superhero movie. II was like 2 different movies. There was the seriousness and scariness of I, and then there were some really silly parts that felt more like Superman III.
This cut is a must see!
This cut is a must see!
I'm still astonished that we are even seeing the Donner cut! I remember reading about it years ago and then one day seeing there were excerpts from the script to read! Amazing stuff but even then the idea of seeing any of the actual footage seemed like a pipe dream. If the fates were on our side maybe some deleted scenes as a DVD supplement or something someday.
I have to give the decision makers at WB props for seeing the profit potential in the idea and responding to a load of fanatics on the "intrynet". We're left with something that is both rewarding and frustrating but I'm glad we have it.
Now if they could just release the theatrical cut of Superman on Blu-Ray I'd be a very happy camper.
I have to give the decision makers at WB props for seeing the profit potential in the idea and responding to a load of fanatics on the "intrynet". We're left with something that is both rewarding and frustrating but I'm glad we have it.
Now if they could just release the theatrical cut of Superman on Blu-Ray I'd be a very happy camper.
I picked up the Donnor cut when it first came out and consider it to be the definitive version of Superman II. The fight between Zod and Supes in Metropolis is excellent and not laden with gags. The scene where the three of them use their superbreath is free of ice-cream in the face gags.
The restoration of Marlon Brando's footage is what really makes the film. The shot where he glares at Lois while Supes' loses his powers is awesome.
Another important difference is explaining in greater detail why Supes' must lose his powers in order to be with Lois, how being Superman and being Clark Kent are mutually exclusive and all that. It makes sense in this film. Same with how he regains his powers, you really understand how it happens.
I think there are a few things that are better in the theatrical version. Reeve's reveal to Lois in the hotel room in Niagara Falls is assembled from test screen footage here, but is much better I think in the original version and a shining example of Reeve's skill as an actor. I also like the line "General, would care to step outside" instead of "Don't you believe in freedom of the press?"
Other than that, though, Donnor's cut is way better. It's a shame the Salkins ****ed him over and had no understanding of what made the first film great. But then again, they are producers, so what do you expect?
The restoration of Marlon Brando's footage is what really makes the film. The shot where he glares at Lois while Supes' loses his powers is awesome.
Another important difference is explaining in greater detail why Supes' must lose his powers in order to be with Lois, how being Superman and being Clark Kent are mutually exclusive and all that. It makes sense in this film. Same with how he regains his powers, you really understand how it happens.
I think there are a few things that are better in the theatrical version. Reeve's reveal to Lois in the hotel room in Niagara Falls is assembled from test screen footage here, but is much better I think in the original version and a shining example of Reeve's skill as an actor. I also like the line "General, would care to step outside" instead of "Don't you believe in freedom of the press?"
Other than that, though, Donnor's cut is way better. It's a shame the Salkins ****ed him over and had no understanding of what made the first film great. But then again, they are producers, so what do you expect?
Second on the "care to step outside" line being better - I think the only reason they even included the "press" line was to show that Donner had shot a lot of alternate takes and to give us as much variation as possible.
Y'know Marvel tried to sell Favero upriver in the exact same manner the Salkinds did Donner. Once they knew they had a hit on their hands, they quickly took the sequels and looked for a way to give it to a friend (or in Marvel's case - someone cheaper). Superman 2 stands as a testament to just how screwed up and useless all the Hollywood Guilds are. Look at all the work Donner put into two - going by his cut as well as the documentation in the making of Superman 1 & 2 (the books as well as the featurette) - Donner essentially completed somwhere up in 80% of part 2 while filming part 1 and HE DIDN'T EVEN GET CREDIT!!!! I've always said these arbitration proceedings put on by the WGA, and DGA to decide where credit is allocated are a total sham. The guilds are supposed to be there to protect us from the studio but instead they work for the enemy. Mank only got story consultant" on a script he totally had to overhaul.
Let us know what you think after.
Bought it also when it came out.
And fans were clamoring for it so the studio listened for a change.
It's not as complete a film obviously but well appreciated that we have this.
So much more serious.
I find it odd they we're not really playing up it was the Donnor cut, I can imagine some causual viewers being confused about the ending.
And fans were clamoring for it so the studio listened for a change.
It's not as complete a film obviously but well appreciated that we have this.
So much more serious.
I find it odd they we're not really playing up it was the Donnor cut, I can imagine some causual viewers being confused about the ending.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
You may be left in a little confused state after the first viewing. I know I did as I still had the "Lester" version in my mind and basically spent most of the movie looking for what was different. I wasn't sure I liked it at first. The whole tone was different, but at subsequent viewings it is personally the only Superman II I acknowledge.
The gags just cheapened the theatrical version of the movie and the seriousness of what was going on. The Donner version, though not complete, gives a real glimpse of a serious attempt to up the stakes for Superman and the world and the three villains... were... real villains, who were actually dangerous and lethal. Non was dumb but rather funny in the Lester version... not so in the Donner Cut.
My advise would be to see it a few times.
The gags just cheapened the theatrical version of the movie and the seriousness of what was going on. The Donner version, though not complete, gives a real glimpse of a serious attempt to up the stakes for Superman and the world and the three villains... were... real villains, who were actually dangerous and lethal. Non was dumb but rather funny in the Lester version... not so in the Donner Cut.
My advise would be to see it a few times.
YenChih Lin
Master Member
Ahhh! The Donner Cut... How I love it - imagine what possiblities lied ahead, if the Salkinds didn't fire Dick... Brainiac, Darkseid - with Chris as Superman 
The only thing that really irked me about the Donner cut, aside from the couple things mentioned above, was that Superman just rewound the Earth again at the end.
Seemed like a cop-out. I mean it makes it so that's all he ever has to do, just rewind and all's well.
Seemed like a cop-out. I mean it makes it so that's all he ever has to do, just rewind and all's well.
nickytea
Master Member
See mine and Munson's comments in the other Donner Supie II thread:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=84384&
Being a longtime "Superman Movie Fan" I would really love to have seen what Richard Donner would have created, had the Studio allowed him creative freedom instead of the real way things ended up! :angry
We could have had Braniac, Darkseid, a very interesting Bizarro, or any number of other great Villains, the Studios really blew it when they stiffed Donner he probably would have made Major Box Office Record sales with sequels!
I also think even though there were things I didn't like in "Superman Returns", there was room for improvement in a sequel, they could have done better and even offered us a better Villain... now there is No chance of that with the Studios redoing the Superman Franchise, I don't think there is really any need to reinvent the wheel, Brandon Routh did a good job (Although I thought he was too young in Returns, he would have been perfect in a part 2) and he would have been better in a sequel if well Written & Directed!
We could have had Braniac, Darkseid, a very interesting Bizarro, or any number of other great Villains, the Studios really blew it when they stiffed Donner he probably would have made Major Box Office Record sales with sequels!
I also think even though there were things I didn't like in "Superman Returns", there was room for improvement in a sequel, they could have done better and even offered us a better Villain... now there is No chance of that with the Studios redoing the Superman Franchise, I don't think there is really any need to reinvent the wheel, Brandon Routh did a good job (Although I thought he was too young in Returns, he would have been perfect in a part 2) and he would have been better in a sequel if well Written & Directed!
