Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
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Not to mention makes puppets of the characters if they are just controlled like pawns by an unseen force. So by that thinking it renders their choices meaningless because they aren't choices.
Obi-Wan tells Luke that it controls your actions but it also obeys your commands. More of a push pull.
Plus the way the characters talk about destiny (at least in the OT) they are more assumptions that those characters are making vs. being set in stone. Consider how Vader and the Emperor keep telling Luke it's his destiny to take Vader's place and join the dark side. Neither of which happen. So it's not really destiny, just words to try to turn Luke.
Obi-Wan tells Luke that it controls your actions but it also obeys your commands. More of a push pull.
Plus the way the characters talk about destiny (at least in the OT) they are more assumptions that those characters are making vs. being set in stone. Consider how Vader and the Emperor keep telling Luke it's his destiny to take Vader's place and join the dark side. Neither of which happen. So it's not really destiny, just words to try to turn Luke.
Joek3rr
Master Member
This is very common idea in Christianity and I imagine other religions. When your dealing with a "force" that is exists outside the bounds of time and space. You can have two ideas that contradict themselves, yet both be true at the same time.
DARTH ANIBAL
Sr Member
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.
Oops.
Joek3rr
Master Member
But they still are choices, and yet they aren't. You can't think of it in a linear cause and effect terms. The Force is not bound by the constraints of time.
Let me see if I think of an example. So let's take Rey, when she reaches out and pulls the lightsaber out of the snow past Ben to her. Was it her that decided to do that? Or was that the Force making her take that action? Yes. It's both at the same time.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
I kind of think of it as how "God" would view time. Past, present, and future laid out like an eternal now. We can't really comprehend it and that's how it has to be.
Guys before posting pictures I think this is still a spoiler free thread. I already have seen this photo and it doesn’t bother me, but it may bother others
Please let’s not forget to use spoiler tags
But trying to be helpful will disrupt the lords of the thread!
Joek3rr
Master Member
I must refrain myself from listening, even looking at the score when it comes out! When TLJ came out I couldn't resist.....and Yoda returning was spoiled.
That would be the illusion of choice. Either she is acting of her own free will or she is being totally controlled by the Force.
Joek3rr
Master Member
You can have both.
Joek3rr
Master Member
You can when you have an all powerful, "Force" not bound by time or space. That's the concept that Obi-Wan introduced to Luke. "Remember a Jedi can the Force flowing through him." "You mean it controls your actions?" "Partially. But it also obeys your commands." And George would say "...it controls individuals, yet we have free will."
Bigdaddy
Master Member
That line Obi gives Luke is pretty broad and open to a lot of interpretation. I always understood the "controls your actions" to be a reference to the training exercise with the saber. The force controlling Luke's hands because Luke commanded or "willed" it to. Contained in it's original context, no paradox exists and the characters remain free of puppet strings.
View attachment 1037384
See the New Sith Trooper from Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker at SDCC 2019 | StarWars.com
Exclusive Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker products and a special exhibit celebrating stormtrooper design are coming to San Diego this month.www.starwars.com
Yeah, I liked this concept the first time I saw it when it was called a Cobra Crimson Guard:
Basically, slap a coat of gloss red Krylon spray paint on a Duck Tales Trooper and you get a “SITH TROOPER!!!”
Please...
I see a bright future as an action figure peg warmer for this guy. Enjoy your time hanging with “Rancor Keeper” my friend.
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Joek3rr
Master Member
That line Obi gives Luke is pretty broad and open to a lot of interpretation. I always understood the "controls your actions" to be a reference to the training exercise with the saber. The force controlling Luke's hands because Luke commanded or "willed" it to. Contained in it's original context, no paradox exists and the characters remain free of puppet strings.
Except he tells him to "Let go your conscious self..." Kinda the opposite of Luke willing it so.
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