Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker?

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Joek3rr said:
Um Ben only lost once to Rey......................
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trained Ben lost to never even touched a lightsaber once before Rey in TFA.

Ben lost again in the force struggle to Rey (he was still out cold when she recovered. If she were a Sith, she could kill him then and there while he was out cold).

Ben also lost to Luke who lost to Rey in their duel.

Rey leaves TLJ with the Jedi texts, implying she will read them and get stronger. Ben shows no hints of additional training to get stronger (no texts, no master, etc.). He is already on record of being equal (generous) to weaker than her. And this is the last film of a Disney film. There was 99% no way Rey was losing a final duel against Ben.
 
Paul Andrew said:
I mean, Palps is a lying liar. I don't think this beef holds much water. Of course Palps was going to tell Anakin he was the only path to learning what he wanted to learn.

Honestly, the possibilities felt wide open after TLJ. They could have done ANYTHING and it would have been workable. Instead the boat was piloted back into very familiar waters. I maintain that I like the film, and will continue to enjoy it, but I can't help but wonder what would have happened had we gotten a filmmaker with a bit more adventurous take. This trilogy could have gone places.

Very much looking forward to RJ's vision when it's untethered from the Skywalker saga. Let's get weird.
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The problem there is their 'stated' goal was to tie up, not just the ST trilogy, but the entire 9 film nonology. You don't veer into radically new unknown territory in part 8 of a 9 film sequence. You don't really do that in part 2 of a 3 film sequence either.

Yeah, JJ left some things open to others because that is what you have to do if you're only making the first of three movies. There have to be plotlines that extend through all to tie the damn thing together. You don't blow off everything from part 1 while making part 2 and expect it to be just fine. It doesn't work that way. Post TLJ there were NOT any plot points left that HAD to be continued. No will han live or die? How does anakin fall to the darkside? How does the empire form? Does Luke become a jedi? That was all set at the end of TLJ. Think of it as an equivalent of ROTS....bad guys won. That's what you're left with at the end of the TLJ, the bad guys won. Worse, in the overall scheme of the first two flicks, the emerged from the shadows and in what? 2-3 days had obliterated the republic and assumed control more or less. The only 'hanging point left' was, if there's another flick, how do the good guys win.

This is a large part of why pick three different directors and let them do what they want was a DUMB plan. You don't make a compelling three part story when everyone can simply dump whatever they want and go off in their own direction. That's a recipe for failure.
 
mutronics said:
Um she beat him twice. Once at the end of the first film and once in the second when she left him unconscious but decided not to kill him.....
And then beat him again in the third film.
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HeartBlade said:
trained Ben lost to never even touched a lightsaber once before Rey in TFA.

Ben lost again in the force struggle to Rey (he was still out cold when she recovered. If she were a Sith, she could kill him then and there while he was out cold).

Ben also lost to Luke who lost to Rey in their duel.

Rey leaves TLJ with the Jedi texts, implying she will read them and get stronger. Ben shows no hints of additional training to get stronger (no texts, no master, etc.). He is already on record of being equal (generous) to weaker than her. And this is the last film of a Disney film. There was 99% no way Rey was losing a final duel against Ben.
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It was once. She, being untrained, beat Ben Solo. That was intentional. But only once.

If Rey had beaten Ben, this wouldn't have happened.
eres-that-lightsaber-breaking-during-the-last-jedi.gif

Their second match up was a draw. To show that they are now equals. Which makes sense, they are a dyad, two halfs of whole. One cannot grow stronger without the other becoming stronger.
 
HeartBlade said:
trained Ben lost to never even touched a lightsaber once before Rey in TFA.
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Oh, give it a rest. Kylo had been shot with Chewie's bowcaster, which had been established to be incredibly powerful. He was literally bleeding during the entire fight.

Finn actually held his own for awhile before Rey got involved, and he had barely touched a lightsaber before in his life and had never once been established to have any melee training. Rey, on the other hand, was visibly shown to have combat training with her staff earlier in the film. Before Rey ever crossed a saber with Kylo, he was emotionally compromised, shot, and had already battled another person WHILE injured.

This argument is not just tired, it's necrotic.
 
Joek3rr said:
It was once. She, being untrained, beat Ben Solo. That was intentional. But only once.

If Rey had beaten Ben, this wouldn't have happened.
View attachment 1244659
Their second match up was a draw. To show that they are now equals. Which makes sense, they are a dyad, two halfs of whole. One cannot grow stronger without the other becoming stronger.
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Well, not really a draw is it. They had a fight which when they stopped fighting left Rylo unconscious on the floor when she wasnt. Most fights are decided upon this very thing happening. During their fight, the lightsaber broke, it doesn't mean they are equal. and equal in what exactly anyway?
 
Zuiun said:
Oh, give it a rest. Kylo had been shot with Chewie's bowcaster, which had been established to be incredibly powerful. He was literally bleeding during the entire fight.

Finn actually held his own for awhile before Rey got involved, and he had barely touched a lightsaber before in his life and had never once been established to have any melee training. Rey, on the other hand, was visibly shown to have combat training with her staff earlier in the film. Before Rey ever crossed a saber with Kylo, he was emotionally compromised, shot, and had already battled another person WHILE injured.

This argument is not just tired, it's necrotic.
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you are missing my point which is the films have consistently shown that Ben is not a martial threat to Rey.

I’m not complaining that Rey won the first fight. However, it doesn’t change the fact that she won this fight, fluke or not.

In the second fight, she essentially won. She has shown to be equal to Ben in the force. She was not knocked unconscious and could escape the heart of the enemy base while Ben could not. By the transitive property, she also beat Ben since she beat Luke quite handily in a fight and Luke also totes with Ben.

The point is Ben has never been shown to be a threat to Rey in a fight. Unless Rey is put in a circumstance when she is not at her best, Ben can’t take her down. We know episode IX is the last movie and there is no way Disney has the balls to let Rey lose the last fight. So there is no tension there.
 
mutronics said:
Well, not really a draw is it. They had a fight which when they stopped fighting left Rylo unconscious on the floor when she wasnt. Most fights are decided upon this very thing happening. During their fight, the lightsaber broke, it doesn't mean they are equal. and equal in what exactly anyway?
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They Force tug of war on a lightsaber. Which resulted in the lightsaber splitting in two. For Rey to have that as a win, then she would have had to succeed in pulling the lightsaber from Kylo to herself. They are equals in the Force, neither one is stronger then the other. That's why saber splits. If Kylo had been stronger it would have gone to him. If Rey had been stronger it would have gone to her.
 
HeartBlade said:
you are missing my point which is the films have consistently shown that Ben is not a martial threat to Rey.

I’m not complaining that Rey won the first fight. However, it doesn’t change the fact that she won this fight, fluke or not.

In the second fight, she essentially won. She has shown to be equal to Ben in the force. She was not knocked unconscious and could escape the heart of the enemy base while Ben could not. By the transitive property, she also beat Ben since she beat Luke quite handily in a fight and Luke also totes with Ben.

The point is Ben has never been shown to be a threat to Rey in a fight. Unless Rey is put in a circumstance when she is not at her best, Ben can’t take her down. We know episode IX is the last movie and there is no way Disney has the balls to let Rey lose the last fight. So there is no tension there.
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It's a Force tug of war. For her to win she would have had to overpower Ben and pull the lightsaber to herself. But she can't, that's a draw.

Also, she doesn't beat Luke. Luke stops fighting her when she pulls a lightsaber on him. Prior to that, old man Luke is beating her at her own game. Fighting with sticks.
 
Joek3rr said:
It was once. She, being untrained, beat Ben Solo. That was intentional. But only once.

If Rey had beaten Ben, this wouldn't have happened.
View attachment 1244659
Their second match up was a draw. To show that they are now equals. Which makes sense, they are a dyad, two halfs of whole. One cannot grow stronger without the other becoming stronger.
Click to expand...

Honestly the dyad is a stupid introduction into Star Wars lore added by TLJ imo because it makes training pointless. What incentive is there for Rey to train because no matter what little she does, she will always be equally strong to Ben.

On the other hand, there is a disincentive for Rey to train because the stronger she becomes, the stronger Kylo becomes also. The dyad never made sense to me like why were there no dyads before, what if one dyad dies, etc.

yes, the scene in question showed that in terms of the ability to call on the force, they are equal. However, the next scene has Ben wake up going where is she while Rey has escaped the base and able to shoot down tie fighters in the falcon. In a fight, the last man standing, or the last man still able to move, is the winner. Rey is the winner in this fight too.
 

Luke falls with his back to the ground and uses the force to slow his fall. He is in a prone position with his opponent standing over him with a weapon ready to strike and he himself has no weapon capable to defend himself. He lost. Rey was also the aggressor and kept Luke on his backfoot.

This fight also follows with Rey choosing to leave rather than continue training under him. She doesn't seem to feel she has anything more to learn from Luke directly which is not something you think when you lose to your master.

meanwhile, Ben doesn’t come close to hitting Luke once. Luke doesn’t even need to block his strikes like he did with Rey. Sure you could say he was emotional but that just means he’s a bad fighter then and doesn’t change the fact that Ben can’t beat Rey in a fight.
 
Joek3rr said:
They Force tug of war on a lightsaber. Which resulted in the lightsaber splitting in two. For Rey to have that as a win, then she would have had to succeed in pulling the lightsaber from Kylo to herself. They are equals in the Force, neither one is stronger then the other. That's why saber splits. If Kylo had been stronger it would have gone to him. If Rey had been stronger it would have gone to her.
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I just don't follow your logic. Rey had at this point been using the force for what a week or so? She has beaten Ben in one lightsabre fight in the first movie, do you agree on that? She then equalled/bested Ben in a tug of war with a lightsabre and left him, having taken both halves of the lightsabre for dead as far as she knew. In what part did she not win? The moral victory?

And lets be honest who hasnt she beaten?
 
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mutronics said:
I just don't follow your logic. Rey had at this point been using the force for what a week or so? She has beaten Ben in one lightsabre fight in the first movie, do you agree on that? She then equalled/bested Ben in a tug of war with a lightsabre and left him, having taken both halves of the lightsabre for dead as far as she knew. In what part did she not win? The moral victory?
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to be fair to joker, in terms of pure force manipulation, the film implies they are equal at that moment in time, the lightsaber splitting in half because neither could overpower the other.

but in terms of rate of growth and the fact that she walked away from an unconscious Ben, Rey has outmatches Ben time and time again in the series.

I do agree with your point though. Watch a boxing movie or anime where both boxers strike each other at the same time. It’s the one who gets to his feet first who wins.
 
HeartBlade said:
Not sure how fans feel about this but how do you guys feel knowing that the Skywalker line has been eradicated as we know of?

Luke doesn’t have any children that we know of, Leia is dead, and Kylo is dead. No Skywalkers feels quite sad for the Star Wars universe.
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I love it. The Skywalker saga is over. The whole family is together, in the netherworld of the Force.
 
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