Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[HMSwolfe]

The actors have said they’d not plan to return, so seems unlikely in the foreseeable future. Unless a negotiating strategy I guess, but I can imagine they’d want to avoid being typecast for the next stage of their careers.

There will probably be some more novels and comics, and they’ll be just as bad as all the other novels and comic books that have been made out of Star Wars. Meaning, in between just slightly worse than TFA/TLJ and several times better than TROS. Honestly, if I were one of these actors, I’d feel really burnt out on Star Wars, and acting in general. The whole atmosphere around the ST, not even talking about the quality but the atmosphere of fans and media coverage and the divisiveness (and the crass commercialism of Disney), must have been so draining and demoralizing and honestly disheartening. I hope they go on to do more—I just watched Marriage Story with Adam Driver, and he did a phenomenal job, even if I didn’t care for the story.

 

[ConvergencePro]

But we do see him with it in TLJ, in the flashback scenes with Ben. So unless he built an identical saber, it's gotta be the same.

Pretty sure theres a glimpse of it on his belt during the end celebrations, but I might be mistaken

edit: nm someone beat me to it lol

 

[HeartBlade]

There will probably be some more novels and comics, and they’ll be just as bad as all the other novels and comic books that have been made out of Star Wars. Meaning, in between just slightly worse than TFA/TLJ and several times better than TROS. Honestly, if I were one of these actors, I’d feel really burnt out on Star Wars, and acting in general. The whole atmosphere around the ST, not even talking about the quality but the atmosphere of fans and media coverage and the divisiveness (and the crass commercialism of Disney), must have been so draining and demoralizing and honestly disheartening. I hope they go on to do more—I just watched Marriage Story with Adam Driver, and he did a phenomenal job, even if I didn’t care for the story.

Agree. One good thing I would say for the ST cast is unlike the PT, everyone was given the short stick due to bad plot, dialogue, etc as opposed to just some so no one actor would be hurt like Hayden.

Star Wars, for better or worse, also put these actors on the map. With some acting gigs, these actors can go from “that guy on Star Wars” to legit A-list actor. Adam Driver is arguably getting there.

 

[BTTUK]

But we do see him with it in TLJ, in the flashback scenes with Ben. So unless he built an identical saber, it's gotta be the same.

We already see it during the Ewok celebration so no matter how he went and got it, he did.

note to self: check someone else hasn't said it before

 

[Mr Webber]

The actors have said they’d not plan to return, so seems unlikely in the foreseeable future. Unless a negotiating strategy I guess, but I can imagine they’d want to avoid being typecast for the next stage of their careers.

Yeah, Boyega and Isaacs have made it clear they are done and after Driver's revelations about how the weirdo Reylo`s effected his and his wives lives so badly dont expect to see him back either in any form. Good luck making movies expecting only Daisy Ridley to carry them. That particular era of fractured fandom and ever receding profits is finished and wont be revisited. This is the Way.

 

[Joek3rr]

why is a story where the old cast passes the torch to a new group of adventurers boring and uninteresting?

there was potential to work with.
Poe could have been more hot headed and brash, reminding Leia of both her and a young Han. This, she passes off her wisdom and the role as the new leader of the resistance.

Han definitely was not a fan of Finn who was a coward, possibly reflecting how he also ran away from his problems (his son turning, the first order) or could recognize that Finn wanted freedom like he did (becoming a smuggler to be his own man or something). He grows to appreciate him and gifts the falcon.

Rey and Luke is an obvious mentor mentee but have Rey struggle to master things. Although a more interesting relationship is Ben and Luke with Rey getting in the way imo. Not have the dyad but Ben be weaker than Rey despite being a natural Skywalker. His turn to evil and his later return to the light. He has to live with what he has done but Luke hints at his forgiveness of his nephew in the end by giving him Anakin’s saber, another Jedi who fell to darkness but returned to the light but failed to really redeem his actions in life.

you could then easily make sequel movies of the ST becoming leaders to a new threat, a tv series of Ben wandering the galaxy and helping others to make amends, etc.

But that's not what you said,

"the passing of the torch doesn’t mean the original heroes are old and crippled. They may just want to retire or have lives they can’t risk going on an adventure for "

Our heroes just want to retire, and that's the reason they have to have new heroes? That sounds very uninteresting. Or even having lives they can't risk going on adventures for? *yawn*

I'll take self imposed exile, Luke, any day. To me that's intriguing. Why would Luke Skywalker disappear in a self-imposed exile? That's a question that makes me sit up and take intrest.

 

[Kovnyn]

Yeah, Boyega and Isaacs have made it clear they are done and after Driver's revelations about how the weirdo Reylo`s effected his and his wives lives so badly dont expect to see him back either in any form. Good luck making movies expecting only Daisy Ridley to carry them. That particular era of fractured fandom and ever receding profits is finished and wont be revisited. This is the Way.

Oscar Isaac and Adam Driver had already established their careers in Hollywood long before being cast in Star Wars. Sure, it may be have been smaller supporting roles, but they were working. I was aware of who they were before Star Wars. The sequels trilogy, for better or worse, has put them on the spot light as potential leading stars, which is good.
I can't speak for Ridley and Boyega, I hadn't been aware of either prior to this, but I think they'll continue to have successful careers.

I do wonder about Kelly Marie Tran, whether she'd even want to continue in Hollyowood given the treatment she got from the vocal minority, and having her character mostly removed from TROS. Will she pull a Hayden Christianson and disappear from the scene?

 

[cboath]

But that's not what you said,

"the passing of the torch doesn’t mean the original heroes are old and crippled. They may just want to retire or have lives they can’t risk going on an adventure for "

Our heroes just want to retire, and that's the reason they have to have new heroes? That sounds very uninteresting. Or even having lives they can't risk going on adventures for? *yawn*

I'll take self imposed exile, Luke, any day. To me that's intriguing. Why would Luke Skywalker disappear in a self-imposed exile? That's a question that makes me sit up and take intrest.

Except that the answer they gave was horriffic....

He failed his nephew, turning the worst threat the galaxy has seen in 30 years loose, and just says 'eff it, i quit...you can all suck it'. Just no. Mark was right, everything about that goes against the character completely.

 

[HeartBlade]

But that's not what you said,

"the passing of the torch doesn’t mean the original heroes are old and crippled. They may just want to retire or have lives they can’t risk going on an adventure for "

Our heroes just want to retire, and that's the reason they have to have new heroes? That sounds very uninteresting. Or even having lives they can't risk going on adventures for? *yawn*

I'll take self imposed exile, Luke, any day. To me that's intriguing. Why would Luke Skywalker disappear in a self-imposed exile? That's a question that makes me sit up and take intrest.

that was more of an example of what they could have done with the current ST characters instead of just giving everything to Rey at the end.

honestly having adventures with the old cast will be tricky since they are all quite competent so passing the torch does require the old guard to give up their old roles so the new blood can fill them.

Luke and Rey or Luke and Ben work because Luke is still just one person (new force powers aside) so he can’t be everywhere at once. Like Yoda needs to fight Palpatine so had Obi Wan fight Anakin.

Han could be choosing to take on a more commander-esque role so he can’t be out on the field piloting the MF into battle anymore, hence why lower rank Finn or Poe gets the ship. They old guard arnt retiring but moving on to a new phase in their lives with new responsibilities and thus new challenges. This gives both the old guard a chance to also have character development while allowing the new cast to shine due to having their own unique strengths (Finn has an insight into the Empire/First Order having formerly worked there which no hero ever had, Rey could have been very streetwise and good at negotiating but lacked mechanical skills so the way she approached challenges would have been different from past heroes, etc).

I’m not arguing that depressed exiled Luke as a concept doesn’t work. It could have worked really well although it seems very odd from TFA which implied Luke was looking for something, being in the middle of a war and all.

The answer the movies gave us (he tried to kill his nephew because he saw darkness in him) was bad though because this is the same Luke that believed in the good of Vader, one of the dark sides strongest warriors, and was rewarded in doing so.

For Luke to preemptively kill Ben, his own blood, preemptively because of the darkness in him despite still being innocent, would require Luke to have experienced several examples in the interim where he trusted in the good of those he trained despite their darkness and was punished for doing so, turning him to be more cautious with Ben. We obviously don’t see this which is why this is so jarring.

 

[Joek3rr]

I’m not arguing that depressed exiled Luke as a concept doesn’t work. It could have worked really well although it seems very odd from TFA which implied Luke was looking for something, being in the middle of a war and all.

The answer the movies gave us (he tried to kill his nephew because he saw darkness in him) was bad though because this is the same Luke that believed in the good of Vader, one of the dark sides strongest warriors, and was rewarded in doing so.

What's odd about what they told us in TFA? "He was training a new generation of
Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned
against him, destroyed it all. Luke
felt responsible... He walked away
from everything.......
......There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
The people who knew him the best
think he went looking for the first
Jedi temple."
I'm not seeing what's odd.

The answer was bad? Why? Is Luke some sinless, saint, who never acts out of fear and anger?

I mean do you think Luke's nephew turning to the Dark Side, alone, would be enough to make Luke disappear into exile? Or would there have to be more?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Without getting mired in what-ifs and other speculations...

Lumiya appears out of nowhere, but was trained by Vader.

Hardly nowhere. Shira Brie was a Rebel pilot who turned out to be an Imperial spy. She tried to take an opportunity to shoot Luke down when it would be easily attributed to the TIEs they were fighting. Luke felt the hostile intent toward him as a twinge in the Force, dodged, immediately returned fire -- and was horrified to see he'd "missed" and shot down one of his comrades. He didn't know until later that she'd survived and been rebuilt by Vader into the Dark Lady Lumiya.

The EU examples you provided retcon ROTJ, that's very likely why GL kept them in the EU.

More that George had other things to do than keep up with it. He roughly knew Splinter of the Mind's Eye, as ADF was working from notes George gave him. And there was such hoopla around Heir to the Empire's release that he couldn't ignore it. He liked the name Tim had come up with for the pre-Imperial name for the Republic capitol, and later included it in the Prequels. But apart from that? He reserved the right to overwrite any or all of the EU not because he didn't like it, but because he couldn't be arsed to know what was in it.

Still pointless. Even if it isn't sith, the implication of balance being permanent is an absolute joke because of human (or whatever race) nature. People will gain force powers and go, gee, I can make people do what I want with these things...it's a guaranteed inevitability. They don't have to be 'sith' per se, just force users who do bad things. Still undoes a permanent balance prophecy no matter how you look at it. Think no one ever falls to the dark side ever again is just implausible at best.

And from this does dramatic narrative arise. Bonus points if you have good dialogue to this effect in said narrative. "But the Dark Side was supposed to have been destroyed! Wasn't the balance restored?" "Sure -- what made you think that meant forever?"

Maybe I'm too much of a dork, but what I don't understand is WHY the Emperor would have even had the Sith Wayfinder in a vault just off of his throne room on the new Death Star. He wasn't supposed to be there ("The Emperor is coming here?") and only really showed up to bait the Rebels and Luke to attack it. Why would he have taken his most treasured artifacts and put them in the Death Star (before it was completed, when he wasn't supposed to be there, etc.)?

I figured he just took it everywhere with him. If it's the only way to navigate into Sith space (nice EU callback, that), and he never knows when he might need or want to hit up the seat of his power, it makes sense to me he wouldn't leave it behind in his private quarters on Coruscant. Heck, maybe the third guy from the left's job is to pack and unpack it every time Palpatine goes somewhere:

 

[Axlotl]

But that's not what you said,

"the passing of the torch doesn’t mean the original heroes are old and crippled. They may just want to retire or have lives they can’t risk going on an adventure for "

Our heroes just want to retire, and that's the reason they have to have new heroes? That sounds very uninteresting. Or even having lives they can't risk going on adventures for? *yawn*

I'll take self imposed exile, Luke, any day. To me that's intriguing. Why would Luke Skywalker disappear in a self-imposed exile? That's a question that makes me sit up and take intrest.

I guarantee that if Disney had made the movies HeartBlade is describing you would be defending those as vehemently as you're defending
TLJ/ROS, and if someone offered an alternative storyline involving a crabby Luke in exile you would say that sounds boring and uninteresting.

 

[Joek3rr]

I guarantee that if Disney had made the movies HeartBlade is describing you would be defending those as vehemently as you're defending
TLJ/ROS, and if someone offered an alternative storyline involving a crabby Luke in exile you would say that sounds boring and uninteresting.

Maybe, maybe not.

I will concede that what is said on paper, doesn't always sound good.

Ultimately I'm going to defend what I like. I love TLJ, really like TFA, and like TROS.

 

[Joek3rr]

Without getting mired in what-ifs and other speculations...

Hardly nowhere. Shira Brie was a Rebel pilot who turned out to be an Imperial spy. She tried to take an opportunity to shoot Luke down when it would be easily attributed to the TIEs they were fighting. Luke felt the hostile intent toward him as a twinge in the Force, dodged, immediately returned fire -- and was horrified to see he'd "missed" and shot down one of his comrades. He didn't know until later that she'd survived and been rebuilt by Vader into the Dark Lady Lumiya.

More that George had other things to do than keep up with it. He roughly knew Splinter of the Mind's Eye, as ADF was working from notes George gave him. And there was such hoopla around Heir to the Empire's release that he couldn't ignore it. He liked the name Tim had come up with for the pre-Imperial name for the Republic capitol, and later included it in the Prequels. But apart from that? He reserved the right to overwrite any or all of the EU not because he didn't like it, but because he couldn't be arsed to know what was in it.

And from this does dramatic narrative arise. Bonus points if you have good dialogue to this effect in said narrative. "But the Dark Side was supposed to have been destroyed! Wasn't the balance restored?" "Sure -- what made you think that meant forever?"

I figured he just took it everywhere with him. If it's the only way to navigate into Sith space (nice EU callback, that), and he never knows when he might need or want to hit up the seat of his power, it makes sense to me he wouldn't leave it behind in his private quarters on Coruscant. Heck, maybe the third guy from the left's job is to pack and unpack it every time Palpatine goes somewhere:
View attachment 1248035

Did George like the name? I heard he was going to name it something else in TPM, but some at Lucasfilm convinced him to go with Coruscant?

Yeah here it is

"Just to make it clear, I did not invent the planet…George Lucas had invented the planetwide city a long time ago. When I was starting the Thrawn Trilogy, they told me to coordinate with the West End Games source material, and they had it listed as the Imperial Planet. Well nobody names a planet 'Imperial Planet,' so I thought it needed a name, so I picked the word that means glittering: 'Coruscant.' Apparently, when it came time to choose a name [for the films], people persuaded George to go with Coruscant and be done with it. So I felt very vindicated -- the tail wagging the dog. It was an honor to be slipped into the movies this way."

 

[Kovnyn]

Hardly nowhere. Shira Brie was a Rebel pilot who turned out to be an Imperial spy. She tried to take an opportunity to shoot Luke down when it would be easily attributed to the TIEs they were fighting. Luke felt the hostile intent toward him as a twinge in the Force, dodged, immediately returned fire -- and was horrified to see he'd "missed" and shot down one of his comrades. He didn't know until later that she'd survived and been rebuilt by Vader into the Dark Lady Lumiya.

Of course she had a back story, just like every other Sith of the week in the EU. It's the Sith of the week I felt got old in the post Imperial EU.

 

[Ron]

What's odd about what they told us in TFA? "He was training a new generation of
Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned
against him, destroyed it all. Luke
felt responsible... He walked away
from everything.......
......There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
The people who knew him the best
think he went looking for the first
Jedi temple."
I'm not seeing what's odd.

The answer was bad? Why? Is Luke some sinless, saint, who never acts out of fear and anger?
View attachment 1248033
I mean do you think Luke's nephew turning to the Dark Side, alone, would be enough to make Luke disappear into exile? Or would there have to be more?

He already learned that giving in to your emotion can lead to the dark side. That defiant moment when he threw away his lightsaber was the moment he became a Jedi Knight. Why would he make that same mistake again? For him to do so means he never learned the lesson and is kind of an idiot.

I know what you're going to say... "We always battle temptation and we can often make the same mistakes. Why should Luke be different?"

There's different levels of temptation and we can't paint them all with a broad brush. It's not like he was in the heat of battle and let a little anger flow out. He calmly contemplated murdering his nephew for evil he had yet to commit. LUKE SKYWALKER of all people -the guy who turned Darth Vader back to the light- contemplated murder.

But here's the bigger issue for me and what this boils down to. Luke Skywalker is a hero and heroes don't give up. That's why we love him. He had his failures in Empire Strikes Back and he rebounded back. Let's say Luke could have failed Ben. Why does he just give up? Luke NEVER gave up before. Then Ruin thought it necessary to have Yoda come back and proclaim to him that "Failure is the best teacher"??? LUKE SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT FOR PETE'S SAKE!!! To quote RLM, "HAVE YOU SEEN STAR WARS???!!!".

Star Wars was a hero story meant to inspire. A story to make you feel good. Luke Skywalker was a hero to all of us growing up. Most of us don't appreciate his character being shat on to make some bullsh*t post-modern philosophical statement about the fallacy of heroes. By the way, neither does the man who played him. That should tell you everything you need to know right there.

Just to be clear, I don't mind a story like this being told because it can be very intriguing. They just picked the absolute wrong character with which to tell it.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Of course she had a back story, just like every other Sith of the week in the EU. It's the Sith of the week I felt got old in the post Imperial EU.

I feel you're doing her a disservice. She was before the Sith of the Week phenomenon. She was before most of the EU. At the time she was introduced and developed, the EU consisted of Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Brian Daley's three Han Solo adventures, and the Marvel comic series Lumiya was a repeat villain in from introduction to the end of the run. She also found her way into post-ROTJ EU materials -- mainly a short story in Topps' Star Wars Galaxy magazine and the Legacy of the Force series. She was actually the one who turned Jacen.

 

[sztriki]

Pretty sure theres a glimpse of it on his belt during the end celebrations, but I might be mistaken

edit: nm someone beat me to it lol

It's flailing around on his belt so wildly at the ewok party that Chelsea Hamill's existence was severely jeopardized.

Yeah, Boyega and Isaacs have made it clear they are done and after Driver's revelations about how the weirdo Reylo`s effected his and his wives lives so badly dont expect to see him back either in any form.

That's news to me.

EDIT: I read up on it, ****** on a bike some people *inseet stuff that would be censored here*.

Good luck making movies expecting only Daisy Ridley to carry them.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that she's checked out too. Too damn lazy to look it up.

 

[patrickivan]

What's odd about what they told us in TFA? "He was training a new generation of
Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned
against him, destroyed it all. Luke
felt responsible... He walked away
from everything.......
......There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
The people who knew him the best
think he went looking for the first
Jedi temple."
I'm not seeing what's odd.

The answer was bad? Why? Is Luke some sinless, saint, who never acts out of fear and anger?
View attachment 1248033
I mean do you think Luke's nephew turning to the Dark Side, alone, would be enough to make Luke disappear into exile? Or would there have to be more?

Considering what Luke valued, and what he was willing to sacrifice, it was indeed incredibly stupid to say he had a moment of wanting to kill his nephew BEFORE his nephew did anything bad. Moments of anger were things Luke struggled with as part of his growth. I 100% better of him post RTOJ as he grew from the first movie.

Luke even thinking of killing his nephew because of a growing darkness made no sense because it implies he was aware of it (growing) and this was his answer. Not to work with him but to walk in on him while he slept and ignite his saber??! That's just horrible writing that showed a Luke who learned nothing. Great way to treat a legacy hero.

And more sloppy writing. He sensed all of that, despite the growing darkside use, yet was blinded by the growing darkside that allowed his entire school to be destroyed? Did he sense it growing or not? Did he sense it and did nothing at all for some perplexing reason? No wait, he sensed it and his response was to do nothing until one night he decided to kill his nephew? And that backfires because he didn't sense it enough and everything was lost.

And now he's so incredibly mind ****** by it he leaves forever as an answer and let's the galaxy deal with the fallout? That's so incredibly sloppy.

Your clip is as self serving as people who "research" things by cherry-picking memes to support their argument. I honestly expect more from you than that considering your posts can be far more well thought out.

The entire premise was odd.

That said, at least we got to see a little redemption of the kind of Luke in TROS that we should have had from TFA onwards.

 

[Joek3rr]

He already learned that giving in to your emotion can lead to the dark side. That defiant moment when he threw away his lightsaber was the moment he became a Jedi Knight. Why would he make that same mistake again? For him to do so means he never learned the lesson and is kind of an idiot.

I know what you're going to say... "We always battle temptation and we can often make the same mistakes. Why should Luke be different?"

There's different levels of temptation and we can't paint them all with a broad brush. It's not like he was in the heat of battle and let a little anger flow out. He calmly contemplated murdering his nephew for evil he had yet to commit. LUKE SKYWALKER of all people -the guy who turned Darth Vader back to the light- contemplated murder.

But here's the bigger issue for me and what this boils down to. Luke Skywalker is a hero and heroes don't give up. That's why we love him. He had his failures in Empire Strikes Back and he rebounded back. Let's say Luke could have failed Ben. Why does he just give up? Luke NEVER gave up before. Then Ruin thought it necessary to have Yoda come back and proclaim to him that "Failure is the best teacher"??? LUKE SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT FOR PETE'S SAKE!!! To quote RLM, "HAVE YOU SEEN STAR WARS???!!!".

Star Wars was a hero story meant to inspire. A story to make you feel good. Luke Skywalker was a hero to all of us growing up. Most of us don't appreciate his character being shat on to make some bullsh*t post-modern philosophical statement about the fallacy of heroes. By the way, neither does the man who played him. That should tell you everything you need to know right there.

Just to be clear, I don't mind a story like this being told because it can be very intriguing. They just picked the absolute wrong character with which to tell it.

Calmly contemplated murdering his nephew? His anything but calm. He just witnessed a vision of nephew killing his loved ones! The man is in anguish.

(Unfortunately I could only find a fan edit)

Why do think he gave up? Maybe because he doesn't trust himself? Maybe because he's afraid of what will happen to him the next time he confronts his nephew. For Luke to realistically go into a self-imposed exile, so seriously bad stuff has to happen. And it has to be his fault. Briefly considering killing his nephew what he was going to do, is just that.