Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[HMSwolfe]

The whole “Star Wars” concept of “redeeming” evil mass murderers (I include Anakin in this) is extremely silly.

Are they to be completely forgiven for their crimes because they use “The Dark Side Controlled Me” defense”? You can be “seduced” to the dark side—through your choices—but that doesn’t mean it controls you. They are no more “controlled” by the dark side then the Jedi are “controlled” by the good side. Free choice and self-direction seems to reign in the “Star Wars” galaxy, as it does elsewhere.

I’m sure the family of this guy would have no problem with Anakin Skywalker using the “Dark Side Controlled Me” defense and not being punished for his crimes....

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I can think of plenty of other mass murderers who would have loved to have blamed some outside influence for their choices made and actions they took....Jeff Damher was seduced by some external evil force but could have been redeemed and turned back to the light, using “Star Wars” logic (right...).

That’s why ROTJ doesn’t work as a finale to the “grand saga of Anakin Skywalker”. Vader was a terrible person. He killed many of his own men, just because of his temper. ROTJ works as a conclusion to Luke’s story alone, in that he succeeded in reminding his father of the good in him. It didn’t mean Vader was all of a sudden the brightest beam of light in the galaxy—he just realized he didn’t want the emperor killing his son. And that was enough.

 

[Kovnyn]

I just want to know why the Lars homestead, 30 plus long years abandoned, was still largely intact and unoccupied. You know Jawas would have scavenged every useful bit off the courtyard vaporators, but there they stood, a little dirty but fully intact.

Nothing stays abandoned and untouched for long on Tatooine.

 

[edge10]

And?

Cultural appropriation is wrong. Duh!

 

[Joek3rr]

Cultural appropriation is wrong. Duh!

For me, it's a powerful message to say, it doesn't matter if your a nobody, or if your grandfather is the most evil man in the galaxy. Where you come from doesn't have to define you, you can rise above that.

 

[ConvergencePro]

The whole “Star Wars” concept of “redeeming” evil mass murderers (I include Anakin in this) is extremely silly.

Are they to be completely forgiven for their crimes because they use “The Dark Side Made Me Do It” defense”? You can be “seduced” to the dark side—through your choices—but that doesn’t mean it controls you. They are no more “controlled” by the dark side then the Jedi are “controlled” by the good side. Free choice and self-direction seems to reign in the “Star Wars” galaxy, as it does elsewhere.

I’m sure the family of this guy would have no problem with Anakin Skywalker using the “Dark Side Made Me Do It” defense and not being punished for his crimes....

View attachment 1247422

“Oh look, there’s old Obi Wan and Not Baby Yoda smiling and hanging out with the guy who slaughtered children in the Jedi Temple. That’s nice...”

View attachment 1247434

I can think of plenty of other mass murderers who would have loved to have blamed some outside influence for their choices made and actions they took....Jeff Damher was seduced by some external evil force but could have been redeemed and turned back to the light, using “Star Wars” logic (right...).

I actually have no issue with Anakin/Vader being “redeemed” in death since its a hallmark within Campbells writings. They tried to do this with Kylo too (which is fine), but since they couldn’t write themselves out of a paper bag it went over like a turd sandwich
The act of selflessly sacrificing their life for someone/something else in complete contradiction to the evil of their past is the redeeming factor, but the price they pay for their crimes is typically death. For Vader, it was selflessly sacrificing his own life to save the son that did what he never could; Resist the manipulation and temptation of the Dark Side and the Emperor in the face of everything, even death, and just be a genuinely good person who remains true to themselves
Anakin appearing as a force ghost at the end implies a acceptance of this redemption. That he died as the good person he always was deep down that only Luke believed in.
But hes still dead, and thats the price hes paid

Death actually used to mean something in StarWars though... Now its a total **** show
It was heavily implied in the OT that Force Ghosts were just that, ghosts. They couldn’t interact with the living world and could only be seen by those they had a special connection to in life, acting as a spiritual mentor at most. Leia and Han cant see them at the end of ROTJ given the confused look they give Luke at smiling off into nothing before the credits roll

The ST took that and dropped a MOAB on it. Now Force Ghosts can literally do anything and theres no apparent benefit to being alive vs dead if you are a force user.
****** I dont even really know if Palps is even actually dead anymore. Apparently his spirit can just be brought back
Speaking of, why doesn’t his spirit go into Rey again?? Don’t give me any of that pretentious “But Rey wasn’t the one shooting the force lightning” crap. She knows what shes doing, she’s purposefully redirecting his lightning back at him and knows what it’ll do. She could redirect it any direction like we’ve seen in the past but doesn’t. That implies intent to kill

But NOBODIES EVER REALLY GONE!! So what does it matter now

 

[Paul Andrew]

Instead we got someone with Palpatine blood appropriating the Skywalker name.

I'm less interested in last names and bloodlines than I am in good characters, as a general rule.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I actually have no issue with Anakin/Vader being “redeemed” in death since its a hallmark within Campbells writings. They tried to do this with Kylo too (which is fine), but since they couldn’t write themselves out of a paper bag it went over like a turd sandwich
The act of selflessly sacrificing their life for someone/something else in complete contradiction to the evil of their past is the redeeming factor, but the price they pay for their crimes is typically death. For Vader, it was selflessly sacrificing his own life to save the son that did what he never could; Resist the manipulation and temptation of the Dark Side and the Emperor in the face of everything, even death and just be a genuinely good person
Anakin appearing as a force ghost at the end implies a acceptance of this redemption. That he died as the good person he always was deep down that only Luke believed in.
But hes still dead, and thats the price hes paid

Death actually used to mean something in StarWars though... Now its a total **** show
It was heavily implied in the OT that Force Ghosts were just that, ghosts. They couldn’t interact with the living world and could only be seen by those they had a special connection to in life, acting as a spiritual mentor at most. Leia and Han cant see them at the end of ROTJ given the confused look they give Luke at smiling off into nothing before the credits roll

The ST took that and dropped a MOAB on it. Now Force Ghosts can literally do anything and theres no apparent benefit to being alive vs dead if you are a force user.
****** I dont even really know if Palps is even actually dead anymore. Apparently his spirit can just be brought back
Speaking of, why doesn’t his spirit go into Rey again?? Don’t give me any of that pretentious “But Rey wasn’t the one shooting the force lightning” crap. She knows what shes doing, she’s purposefully redirecting his lightning back at him and knows what it’ll do. She could redirect it any direction like we’ve seen in the past but doesn’t. That implies intent to kill

But NOBODIES EVER REALLY GONE!! So what does it matter now

Well, as long as they stop using a red-colored lightsaber and pick up a blue / green / yellow / purple-colored lightsaber, that is an important part of their redemption.

It’s all about the color of your lightsaber in the “Star Wars” universe vs. deeds / misdeeds and actions

Yeah, yeah, I know it’s a symbol, I don’t care; just let me have my little chuckle. I acknowledge that I’m being a troll on this one.

I took this selfie as I typed out this post:

 

[ConvergencePro]

I'm less interested in last names and bloodlines than I am in good characters, as a general rule.

So it was just a total loss then
Im sorry

Well, as long as they stop using a red-colored lightsaber and pick up a blue / green / yellow / purple-colored lightsaber, that is an important part of their redemption.

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It’s all about the color of your lightsaber in the “Star Wars” universe vs. deeds / misdeeds and actions

Yeah, yeah, I know it’s a symbol, I don’t care; just let me have my chuckle.

I’m just trying to figure out what happened to his blaster in this scene
Why did he throw his red lightsaber away again??
Why wouldn’t he keep a weapon that’s specifically suited to his fighting style that he's used for years vs an unfamiliar weapon before heading in to fight the Emperor?? Did he know Rey was going to give him a saber?
The Knights of Ren just know hes turned and automatically attack him? (Whatever.. maybe palpatine sensed it and told them or some hot garbage)
What the hell is the difference between the Knights of Ren and actual medieval Knights? They literally use hand weapons that are no more effective. Freaking stormies were more effective in this movie (oh wait they’re “Ghouls”)

 

[Paul Andrew]

So it was just a total loss then
Im sorry

We really need an eyeroll emoji under the like button so that I can convey my recognition and dismissal of folks's snark without having to reply so long-windedly.
That having been said, Rey and Kylo are fine characters who got a few uninteresting turns from the writers.

 

[BTTUK]

For me, it's a powerful message to say, it doesn't matter if your a nobody, or if your grandfather is the most evil man in the galaxy. Where you come from doesn't have to define you, you can rise above that.

Then by that logic, the opposite must also be as powerful an ending. One where no matter who your family is, how many of them are heroes, you can't always escape who you are, and what you've done, for example Kylo never turning back

 

[ConvergencePro]

We really need an eyeroll emoji under the like button so that I can convey my recognition and dismissal of folks's snark without having to reply so long-windedly.
That having been said, Rey and Kylo are fine characters who got a few uninteresting turns from the writers.

I want to preface this with saying that I actually genuinely wanted to like Rey, Kylo, Fin and all the other new characters at the onset of the ST
My anger/frustration with Disney/Lucasfilm and the ST is from a feeling of being let down, not because of any preconceptions about the characters that I had, but because of the sheer mountains of wasted potential with these characters. Paths that, like The Mandalorian, could have opened up Starwars into new directions while still feeling grounded in the world that came before

All that said, if you’re interested in having a character discussion, what exactly do you like about Rey’s character?

Perhaps the most frustrating thing for me with her (beyond the God Mode powers with no training) is that she acts like a complete character void. Always trying to find out who she is. She acts like she spent however the hell long she was on Jakku in freaking cryo, never developing into her own person though her life experiences prior to meeting her in TFA, which is then doubled down on 10-fold by Rian in TLJ because “muh themes”.
Regardless of her not knowing her parents and being alone through her early years, she still would have grown into her own person over that time, but she never acts like it. She’s instead used as a tool by The Force rather than her using the Force as a tool
Freaking Solo was a garbage fest but they still managed to make Han feel like a real person who had grown up with a harsh life transforming them into who we know

 

[Joek3rr]

Then by that logic, the opposite must also be as powerful an ending. One where no matter who your family is, how many of them are heroes, you can't always escape who you are, and what you've done, for example Kylo never turning back

But you an always escape. If one is truly repentant. That's not to say that still don't have to pay for their crimes. But spiritually they aren't left in darkness.

It could have been an equally powerful, if Ben lived, but turned himself in, to be punished for his crimes.

 

[Joek3rr]

Then by that logic, the opposite must also be as powerful an ending. One where no matter who your family is, how many of them are heroes, you can't always escape who you are, and what you've done, for example Kylo never turning back

Double post

 

[tubachris85x]

I want to preface this with saying that I actually genuinely wanted to like Rey, Kylo, Fin and all the other new characters at the onset of the ST
My anger/frustration with Disney/Lucasfilm and the ST is from a feeling of being let down, not because of any preconceptions about the characters that I had, but because of the sheer mountains of wasted potential with these characters. Paths that, like The Mandalorian, could have opened up Starwars into new directions while still feeling grounded in the world that came before

All that said, if you’re interested in having a character discussion, what exactly do you like about Rey’s character?

Perhaps the most frustrating thing for me with her (beyond the God Mode powers with no training) is that she acts like a complete character void. Always trying to find out who she is. She acts like she spent however the hell long she was on Jakku in freaking cryo, never developing into her own person though her life experiences prior to meeting her in TFA, which is then doubled down on 10-fold by Rian in TLJ because “muh themes”.
Regardless of her not knowing her parents and being alone through her early years, she still would have grown into her own person over that time, but she never acts like it. She’s instead used as a tool by The Force rather than her using the Force as a tool
Freaking Solo was a garbage fest but they still managed to make Han feel like a real person who had grown up with a harsh life transforming them into who we know

Not that I particularly cared for Rey as a character, but I've sort of rationalized her lack of character as a result of a lack of a proper social upbringing. I hate to say it, but there's a lot of introverts/people I've met who never really clicked with society that come off as boring/plain and just "void" of a substantive character, so as bad as the writing/lack of character development as there was, I think bare bones realism is "there" as silly as it sounds. Should not have been that way IMO regardless.

As for the fact she's got all her Jedi powers off the bat, I think them bringing in the whole Palpatine was kind of a crutch explanation for why she's automatically so powerful.

I see people getting uppity about the force ghosts interacting with physical objects. I mean, I don't particularly think it's that egregious in the least. I mean, they've been shown to be literally "standing" on planets, on the Ewok village tree tops and, **drum roll please**

We get Obi-Wan in ESB taking a sit on a tree log

So really, I don't think it's THAT big of a deal. I have to imagine that there's limits to what they can really do as a force ghost, just like how Luke projecting himself in TLJ killed him in the process, I have to believe that they're still limited in what/how long they can interact with matter. Remember, this is Star Wars, where fireballs in space are a thing and lightsabers function without automatically igniting everyone within the vicinity on fire

 

[Paul Andrew]

I want to preface this with saying that I actually genuinely wanted to like Rey, Kylo, Fin and all the other new characters at the onset of the ST
My anger/frustration with Disney/Lucasfilm and the ST is from a feeling of being let down, not because of any preconceptions about the characters that I had, but because of the sheer mountains of wasted potential with these characters. Paths that, like The Mandalorian, could have opened up Starwars into new directions while still feeling grounded in the world that came before

All that said, if you’re interested in having a character discussion, what exactly do you like about Rey’s character?

Perhaps the most frustrating thing for me with her (beyond the God Mode powers with no training) is that she acts like a complete character void. Always trying to find out who she is. She acts like she spent however the hell long she was on Jakku in freaking cryo, never developing into her own person though her life experiences prior to meeting her in TFA, which is then doubled down on 10-fold by Rian in TLJ because “muh themes”.
Regardless of her not knowing her parents and being alone through her early years, she still would have grown into her own person over that time, but she never acts like it. She’s instead used as a tool by The Force rather than her using the Force as a tool
Freaking Solo was a garbage fest but they still managed to make Han feel like a real person who had grown up with a harsh life transforming them into who we know

I think a hard-nosed scrapper who's had to fight for basically her entire life to survive on a lawless backwater learning that she can use a mystical power source is pretty interesting. Her basic decency, despite said life on Jakku is also interesting, when you would expect that kind of place to reduce a person to a much more cynical and selfish type.

 

[ghostryder]

The whole “Star Wars” concept of “redeeming” evil mass murderers (I include Anakin in this) is extremely silly.

This is exactly how I felt in TFA when the First Order blew up Hosnian Prime and the other planets - they just murdered billions - and we're supposed to care about/root for a redemption arc?

 

[tubachris85x]

This is exactly how I felt in TFA when the First Order blew up Hosnian Prime and the other planets - they just murdered billions - and we're supposed to care about/root for a redemption arc?

Well, the Empire basically did too. Yea, the FO did all that in a single instance and then Death Star 3: Electric Boogaloo got wrecked, but how many more did the the Empire kill over the ~20 years of their control? At least it could be said that the galaxy as a whole hated/feared Vader

 

[Joek3rr]

"what could have been" is going to be the legacy of this trilogy.

The first film "could have" reunited our original aged heroes for one last mission passing the torch to the new younger heroes.

The second film "could have" showed us a wiser, stronger Luke who was off doing something secret and important, maybe misunderstood, for the good guys, maybe that involved saving his nephew from the darkness.

The third film "could have" been an epic conclusion to the Skywalker saga, and introduced a new saga with new ideas and gave fans something interesting to think about and look forward to.

No please no. I don't want a Star Wars film where my aged heroes are talking about how they sprained their back dodging that last blaster bolt. What we got was about perfect. Just enough of the old heroes.

It better dang secretive. If his not going to tell his sister or bring his best friend, Artoo.
And anyways I think it's far more interesting to take our bright eyed hero, and make him go into a self imposed exile. Give him a nice good late life crisis. Drop the floor out from under him, so to speak.

 

[Nth]

So the script "Duel of the Fates" the original episode 9 script Kathleen Kennedy rejected has leaked and the first review of it has come out.

 

[Joek3rr]

I think a hard-nosed scrapper who's had to fight for basically her entire life to survive on a lawless backwater learning that she can use a mystical power source is pretty interesting. Her basic decency, despite said life on Jakku is also interesting, when you would expect that kind of place to reduce a person to a much more cynical and selfish type.

That's one of the things I love about Rey. Giving her upbringing and background. She should have every right to be angry and full of hate. But yet she isn't. I love that.