Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Warpaint
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I love the fact that we've managed to create a thread with 277 pages and we've only had a few tidbits of real info and a look at one puppet. :lol
I love the fact that we've managed to create a thread with 277 pages and we've only had a few tidbits of real info and a look at one puppet. :lol
joshvanrad
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I realized something while watching Indiana Jones Raiders. It really got me thinking about the balance and usage of practical fx vs. CGI. I don't have a problem with CGI, as it can really enhance a scene, and I would hate to live in a world without any CGI.
What really bugs me isn't the usage of CGI, it's the fad of making things over-stylized and trying to make all these scenes a "spectacle". I think it's becoming more and more prevalent in Hollywood, but it was really evident in the SW PT and Crytal Skull. So many scenes were so overly-stylized and packed with radical colors (CGI, practical, or otherwise) it just clutters the shots, in my opinion. Maybe it's just me, but not EVERY scene in a movie has to be a work of art.
I realized something while watching Indiana Jones Raiders. It really got me thinking about the balance and usage of practical fx vs. CGI. I don't have a problem with CGI, as it can really enhance a scene, and I would hate to live in a world without any CGI.
What really bugs me isn't the usage of CGI, it's the fad of making things over-stylized and trying to make all these scenes a "spectacle". I think it's becoming more and more prevalent in Hollywood, but it was really evident in the SW PT and Crytal Skull. So many scenes were so overly-stylized and packed with radical colors (CGI, practical, or otherwise) it just clutters the shots, in my opinion. Maybe it's just me, but not EVERY scene in a movie has to be a work of art.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
A little sad isn't it.
Its great to be excited bout something though. I haven't felt this excited since the leading up to the PT. Half if not most of the fun for me is the excitement in the lead up.
Ben
A little sad isn't it.
Its great to be excited bout something though. I haven't felt this excited since the leading up to the PT. Half if not most of the fun for me is the excitement in the lead up.
Ben
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I'm wondering if anyone else feels like I do?
I'm 42, & probably have a lot of the same SW history as most my age. I was EXTREMELY excited when the PT was announced. My son had just turned 5, my daughter was 3, & I knew this was going to be a way to share the excitement I felt as a kid, without having to watch the same 3 films over & over again. To me though, the most exciting thing was that I was going to finally see the ENTIRE STORY as GL had envisioned it. At the EP III premiere, as my kids stood excitedly next to me in full costume as ANH Luke & Leia, I looked at my buddy & remarked that unless I fell over in the next 2 1/2 hours, I would finally see the end of what started when I was 5. I felt satisfied.
Now, we have the announcement of a whole new trilogy, & I can say that I'm truly excited all over again.
BUT...I also just realized that I will probably NEVER see the end of this thing. There will always be one more. One more trilogy. One more stand-alone movie. One more series. One more...something.
Again, I'm like a kid in a candy store, waiting & searching for any & all new info, & I'm having a ball. I know that as my kids have kids, they'll always have something new & exciting to share with them, & maybe have a reason to share a story about 'Ole Grandpa'. As for me though, I feel a little more mortal. Before, I'd outlived the end. SW was a phenomenon that I could sit back & tell the grandkids about from beginning to end. Now, SW will go on forever (officially) & my life will be a small blip in the whole time-line.
Just sharing.
I'm wondering if anyone else feels like I do?
I'm 42, & probably have a lot of the same SW history as most my age. I was EXTREMELY excited when the PT was announced. My son had just turned 5, my daughter was 3, & I knew this was going to be a way to share the excitement I felt as a kid, without having to watch the same 3 films over & over again. To me though, the most exciting thing was that I was going to finally see the ENTIRE STORY as GL had envisioned it. At the EP III premiere, as my kids stood excitedly next to me in full costume as ANH Luke & Leia, I looked at my buddy & remarked that unless I fell over in the next 2 1/2 hours, I would finally see the end of what started when I was 5. I felt satisfied.
Now, we have the announcement of a whole new trilogy, & I can say that I'm truly excited all over again.
BUT...I also just realized that I will probably NEVER see the end of this thing. There will always be one more. One more trilogy. One more stand-alone movie. One more series. One more...something.
Again, I'm like a kid in a candy store, waiting & searching for any & all new info, & I'm having a ball. I know that as my kids have kids, they'll always have something new & exciting to share with them, & maybe have a reason to share a story about 'Ole Grandpa'. As for me though, I feel a little more mortal. Before, I'd outlived the end. SW was a phenomenon that I could sit back & tell the grandkids about from beginning to end. Now, SW will go on forever (officially) & my life will be a small blip in the whole time-line.
Just sharing.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I concur. It sucks to be mortal. One minute we're here, the next we're not. Maybe if more people realized this sooner we could live in a better world. It is 37 years TODAY since the original STAR WARS came out in the states. May 25th 1977... before my time
Who knows maybe we will get to see Star Wars Episodes X, XI and XII - XIII, XIV and XV as a force ghost
And by the time Star Wars turns 100 people will experience Star Wars as one of the characters in a holodeck probably :lol
I concur. It sucks to be mortal. One minute we're here, the next we're not. Maybe if more people realized this sooner we could live in a better world. It is 37 years TODAY since the original STAR WARS came out in the states. May 25th 1977... before my time
Who knows maybe we will get to see Star Wars Episodes X, XI and XII - XIII, XIV and XV as a force ghost
And by the time Star Wars turns 100 people will experience Star Wars as one of the characters in a holodeck probably :lol
Westies14
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I think people don't realize how many miniatures were used in the prequels. There were thousands of mini sets built and shot, and CG was blamed for the crummy results. There are good practical effects and bad, good CG and bad. The main aesthetic problem in the PT is that nearly every single shot is a composite - a combination of footage from different sources - and compositing shots effectively takes a ton of work. You can't fill a feature film with those shots front to back and have them all be high-quality. Yes, tpm and the others have a lot of shots that are distractingly "off" - but a ton of them are miniatures rather than CG. You've got a problem starting out when your shoot schedule has your actors in front of a blue screen every day.
I think people don't realize how many miniatures were used in the prequels. There were thousands of mini sets built and shot, and CG was blamed for the crummy results. There are good practical effects and bad, good CG and bad. The main aesthetic problem in the PT is that nearly every single shot is a composite - a combination of footage from different sources - and compositing shots effectively takes a ton of work. You can't fill a feature film with those shots front to back and have them all be high-quality. Yes, tpm and the others have a lot of shots that are distractingly "off" - but a ton of them are miniatures rather than CG. You've got a problem starting out when your shoot schedule has your actors in front of a blue screen every day.
cayman shen
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
As with many people, I often use CG and Compositing interchangably...what I mean, and I suspect others mean, is that the elements, whatever they are, are artificially constructed in a computer rather than being captured in camera. Whether they're artificially constructed wholesale or through compositing, the effect is still often phony. But yes, there is good CG and bad CG, good compositing and bad, good practical effects and bad However, real actors, real props, on real sets, will always feel the most satisfying to me. If modern compositing is more believable than old school optical work, great. I agree. Old style compositing looks iffy. Yes, some PT work looked great, some awful. I simply feel there is less risk of the final product looking like a cartoon if as much as possible is done in camera.
As with many people, I often use CG and Compositing interchangably...what I mean, and I suspect others mean, is that the elements, whatever they are, are artificially constructed in a computer rather than being captured in camera. Whether they're artificially constructed wholesale or through compositing, the effect is still often phony. But yes, there is good CG and bad CG, good compositing and bad, good practical effects and bad However, real actors, real props, on real sets, will always feel the most satisfying to me. If modern compositing is more believable than old school optical work, great. I agree. Old style compositing looks iffy. Yes, some PT work looked great, some awful. I simply feel there is less risk of the final product looking like a cartoon if as much as possible is done in camera.
GlazyUK
Active Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
There's a simple thing of which one of these 2 shots is still going to look cool in another 30 years, the full size set with people on it, props, robots, smoke with real depth, or the handful of people shot on a green screen in a fully CG environment with groups of extras either CG'd or green screened around them !!?? I know which one looks dated already !!
There's a simple thing of which one of these 2 shots is still going to look cool in another 30 years, the full size set with people on it, props, robots, smoke with real depth, or the handful of people shot on a green screen in a fully CG environment with groups of extras either CG'd or green screened around them !!?? I know which one looks dated already !!
Darth Lars
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
It is also that many of these miniatures were very clean, plus that they were often composited together with CGI elements.
Jaitea
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
.......but dont forget this horrible scene from the OT, even back then the fake backgrounds were bad:
J
.......but dont forget this horrible scene from the OT, even back then the fake backgrounds were bad:
J
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I'd love to have that bad fake background. Wonder what happened to it.
I'd love to have that bad fake background. Wonder what happened to it.
JD
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I think it's quite clear they didn't go for the "used" feeling that the OT had for the PT. Weathering and other effects weren't warranted - and because we're accustomed to that look and feel, the cleaner look is a bit alien to us.
...and don't fool yourself, the image on the right is how they wanted it to look. CG has little to do with - that's how it was designed and meant to be.
Of course, these aren't the same type of image - so it's not really a fair comparison. One is a more "lived in," used atmosphere and the other is a more sterile, clean place. You're comparing apples to bicycles.
I think it's quite clear they didn't go for the "used" feeling that the OT had for the PT. Weathering and other effects weren't warranted - and because we're accustomed to that look and feel, the cleaner look is a bit alien to us.
...and don't fool yourself, the image on the right is how they wanted it to look. CG has little to do with - that's how it was designed and meant to be.
GlazyUK
Active Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I'm just hoping JJ Abrams doesn't do what Lucas did with the prequels and treat every shot like it's an establishing shot. I love the scene in TESB where Leia is looking out of the window on cloud city and then when Han comes in we just play the scene out, there's no huge panoramic windows behind them to draw the eye, it's all about Han and Leia, those scenes in the prequels with Anakin and Padme nearly always take place in front of droids fixing broke windows, or the traffic of Coruscant. even Deckard in Blade Runner has his blinds shut in his apartment, and we get that one cool shot of him with his drink going to look over his balcony, just to give us some idea where we are in relation to things. Or when he interviews Rachel at Tyrell, he says it's too bright so the windows dim, that way we're not looking at a city full of flying cars for the sake of it ! Vader vs Luke in Jedi, we see those windows in the Emperors tower, but during the fight we don't once see anything to distract us outside of them !!
As for the shots I mentioned, I'm not disputing one is a cleaner environment, but it doesn't look real either. It would be great in an all CG movie in my opinion !!
I'm just hoping JJ Abrams doesn't do what Lucas did with the prequels and treat every shot like it's an establishing shot. I love the scene in TESB where Leia is looking out of the window on cloud city and then when Han comes in we just play the scene out, there's no huge panoramic windows behind them to draw the eye, it's all about Han and Leia, those scenes in the prequels with Anakin and Padme nearly always take place in front of droids fixing broke windows, or the traffic of Coruscant. even Deckard in Blade Runner has his blinds shut in his apartment, and we get that one cool shot of him with his drink going to look over his balcony, just to give us some idea where we are in relation to things. Or when he interviews Rachel at Tyrell, he says it's too bright so the windows dim, that way we're not looking at a city full of flying cars for the sake of it ! Vader vs Luke in Jedi, we see those windows in the Emperors tower, but during the fight we don't once see anything to distract us outside of them !!
As for the shots I mentioned, I'm not disputing one is a cleaner environment, but it doesn't look real either. It would be great in an all CG movie in my opinion !!
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
That's another one of those shots as a kid I saw and thought "that doesn't look right." I never knew it was a matte until later. It's not horrible, but that was something that pulled me out of the movie even as a kid. That was an awesome shot in 83 though.
I don't really see a problem with the Temple hangar scene. I thought it looked good. The Hoth hangar definitely has more going on, but like someone said there's a reason for the difference in activity, condition of the hangar/ships, etc.
That's another one of those shots as a kid I saw and thought "that doesn't look right." I never knew it was a matte until later. It's not horrible, but that was something that pulled me out of the movie even as a kid. That was an awesome shot in 83 though.
I don't really see a problem with the Temple hangar scene. I thought it looked good. The Hoth hangar definitely has more going on, but like someone said there's a reason for the difference in activity, condition of the hangar/ships, etc.
Zombie_61
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
The real problem with the matte painting example in post #6915 is that it isn't "photo realistic"; to me it looks like one of Ralph McQuarrie's pre-production paintings. I love McQuarrie's work, but no one would mistake one of his Star Wars paintings for a photograph.
The concept is the same, it's the tools the "painter" uses that are different, i.e. paint and brushes on glass versus color samples and a stylus on a computer screen.
The real problem with the matte painting example in post #6915 is that it isn't "photo realistic"; to me it looks like one of Ralph McQuarrie's pre-production paintings. I love McQuarrie's work, but no one would mistake one of his Star Wars paintings for a photograph.
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