Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

IT seems that not many are saying wouldn't it be great just t have a good script some real acting and a look that stands out as classic SW

We've all said exactly that at some point, but if that's all we're allowed to talk about this thread would be deserted...so we occupy ourselves with "wouldn't it be great if..." things.

so now that he is 100% (and he is) out of the loop there still may be hope

Actually, he isn't...he's a "creative consultant" now (whatever that means)

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, it would be hard to argue the Maul/Obi-wan/Qui-gon fight was pretty impressive. The Yoda/Dooku AOTC was a novelty item. Really only the Anakin/Obi-wan in ROTS was the one that really strained credibity. And all the CW fights were silly but in the cartoon format it seemed more forgiveable.

I don't disagree that it's visually impressive. It absolutely was, and that held true for all the sabre antics in the PT -- even beyond the duels and applying to the fights vs. droids. All I'm saying is that, practically speaking, most of the sabre vs. sabre stuff was a lot closer to "movie fighting" than to actual fighting.

As Krull pointed out, it's very much like Kung Fu Theater, where movements are exaggerated or stylized for visual appeal, rather than practical effect. But real fighting and fighting techniques are often a lot less flashy because "flashy" requires the fighter to be off balance or overly extended or opening themselves up to a counter attack that you'd never do in a real fight. And that's true for pretty much the bulk of stage fighting.

I think, however, that the PT style was WAY more flashy. They kind of explained this away in outside discussions, as I recall, by saying that the fighting style was designed to combat blaster-wielders primarily, which would involve a lot of fast motion and twirling, most of which left the Jedi ill-prepared for actual sabre-wielding opponents who knew how to match blade for blade.

But all that aside, I think the most grounded, realistic fight of the six films was Obi-Wan vs. Vader on the Death Star. It was the one that most closely tracked to actual kendo or kenjutsu technique from what (admittedly little) I know. It was the one where the combatants were the most grounded and centered, where they extended the least, expended the least amount of energy necessary to conserve their strength, and guarded themselves the best.

 

[Guy Cowen]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I dont want to stop anyone from having dreams bud I'm viewing my opinion based on dreams of what we wanted form a SW movie trilogy in the past, too many dreams spoil a movie and it seems that peoples over analysis are most likely the beginning of the end of what could be a cool SW movie, to want specifics from these films can only disappoint, we all learnt that one!!!

How ever Lucas has not contributed to the movie other than some scribblings that have most likely been ignored especially after the complete re write !!!! He is out nd Disney do not want him in as he rocked a very big boat!!!!

If I put post after post of how I want it to be more like transformers or BSG cos I love em ( I don't) you would think huh!!! well for me its the same with the EU...uh!! why would we want old material thats already been done, why not have it like the Xmas special or the Droids cartoon, Stuart Copland sang the theme to that so is he Canon? Maybe sting could be a Sith Lord....Actually that would be quite good!!! Not sure what Andy Summers would do though but as long as its not a guitar solo then he can play to...... My point being its the desire for it to be.. that spoils it when we see it. My hole point is lets just hope for a good classic looking SW movie with some cool SW stuff....and hopefully some new toys to play with at the end of it, I have no toys to play with from PT cos it was...well a bit ...meh!!!

 

[Guy Cowen]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

That... sounds completely pointless. Did you know that the original Star Wars movie now features expanded universe material like Dash Rendar's ship the Outrider? Even Coruscant, the capitol of the whole freaking galaxy first appeared in "Heir of the Empire" a whole six years before appearing in the special edition in Return of the Jedi. Does that mean if Coruscant makes an appearance or is even mentioned that you'll still go through with your act of expulsion?

I believe the name coruscant came from Lucas's scribblings and was expanded upon for the EU then inserted into the OT, so was always in the writers mind, as was a lot of the stuff fro ROTS, based on scribbles and old idea's so not technically true as you state it, as for inclusion in the background or hints to, thats not an issue as they are decorations on the plate but not the meat and potatoes...

Lucas did listen to the fans and all credit to him if it was an intension to make certain fans happier with little nods to the EU, after all he basically sacked Bar Bar Jinks after the clue flux clan reformed outside Skywalker ranch with ropes in hand..... So he wasn't that bad a dude.

I do not envy JJ, he has an impossible task ahead of him and I pray he wins this loosing battle with us nutters. At the end of the day it won't be about Mara jade and if it is and its a good film then so be it, I'm happy with that.... I just don't go to bed rocking incase it isn't !!

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Although I like the idea that a saber is a difficult weapon to yield, I think creatively and visually it would be a better choice for the new films to keep some excitement in any lightsaber fights they may have in mind.What we saw in '77 just will come across as dull. By ROTJ the fight was much more dynamic.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I just want a great story... The hell with lightsabers...

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I believe the name coruscant came from Lucas's scribblings and was expanded upon for the EU then inserted into the OT, so was always in the writers mind, as was a lot of the stuff fro ROTS, based on scribbles and old idea's so not technically true as you state it, as for inclusion in the background or hints to, thats not an issue as they are decorations on the plate but not the meat and potatoes...

No Coruscant came from Zahn. Lucas had the idea of an Imperial capital, but it was called Had Abbadon.


Some people should just go watch the OT over and over again because I don't think you'll except anything new as SW that you personally don't approve of. As I've said before several EU book series and at least one game are better than the Prequels. I think some people just immediately hate the EU when they haven't even read much of it. I'd even argue that KOTOR has a better story than ROTJ, which was pretty lazy IMO.

As for lightsaber battles, I want Prequel style fighting. The only reason the Jedi in the OT fought that way was because they were old, partly mechanical, or newly trained. Lucas said even then that we never saw a Jedi in their prime fighting in the OT. I think they can do away with some of the flashier stuff that makes no sense, but I don't want to see fencing. That's so 1920s movies.

 

[Guy Cowen]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well we both agree that it doesn't have to be penned by \Lucas to be good, it just has to be good, but the Eu is the Eu for a reason, it is a beast of its own and has its own path thats fan based, be it good or amazing or even worse terrible

Hey I wouldn't even likely know if it was based on EU when it comes out, but I will know if its terrible or not, and you know what if it is EU based (which it isn't) then It will still disappoint the EU fans as it won't be true to EU canon as it will be a hybrid so basically if it stays away from the EU then it can't let the EU fans down. I think Luke becomes left handed in one of the novels and has his hair cut by a droid of some kind with eye's , cool

I never felt the need to take the movies beyond what they are, Movies!!! I tried the books years ago and Meh!! Just got bored really quickly, Im not a bad person for not liking them just don't want the EMU fans being let down when the lightsabers are the wrong colour or they get the mind set of a creature that has no point to anything wrong or hans mum wasn't a Imperial cleaner on Yavin 9's seventh's moon on a Tuesday...... Actually not sure they have days of the week in SW let alone the EMU. I'm trying to add humour not sarcasm to these posts as its all a bit too serious.

For once I actually agree with Jamie, if there was no light sabres and its a great film then so what, I just love great films and we were blessed with quite a few back in the 70's n 80's when we weren't blinded by th EU side of the Forced narrative!!!!

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think creatively and visually it would be a better choice for the new films to keep some excitement in any lightsaber fights they may have in mind.What we saw in '77 just will come across as dull.

Whenever I watch the duel in ANH now, it does seem kinda dull...the only thing that keeps it interesting, aside from dialogue, is the way it's intercut with what the others are doing. The fighting was very much improved for ESB.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I hope the new lightsaber duels are more like the one in ESB as well.. It would make sense since the "old ways" of the jedi are more or less lost, so I think Luke and his possible students would have a more unique style of fighting than what we saw in the PT.

Personally, I like ESB best just because of the tone that they achieved through the lighting, etc.. I think a focus on the meaning and emotion behind the duel is more important than the duel itself. Especially now that the Jedi are rare in the galaxy their meetings are less frequent, the importance of two Jedi meeting to battle should be acknowledged.

In ESB the dark setting really reflects that Luke's confrontation of vader is a rather dark moment in his Jedi "career" because he is fighting vader out of anger against someone who he thinks killed his parents. I think the flashy stunts and fast movements of the PT duels were a bit distracting from the emotions behind the fight.. especially the Anakin/Obi fight in RoTS.. the long shots of the two of them flying around doesn't really reflect that.

 

[Zombie_61]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Is this movie doomed already?

I've seen a handful of people claiming "This movie needs to follow the EU!" and others claiming "If this movie follows the EU it will be unwatchable garbage!"... so basically J.J. and Lawrence could churn out a complete gem and still **** off a third of the SW fans. It seems a little unfair.

Valid question. The problem is, just as it was prior to the Prequel Trilogy movies, that Star Wars has become so many things to so many people that it's impossible at this point for Abrams and Kasdan to make every fan happy regardless of what they do. Anyone who has been reading this thread from the beginning has seen the diversity here alone: "It has to be about Skywalker family, because that's what the story is about" "I hope they don't bring Luke Skywalker back, I want something new." "I hope they stay true to the Expanded Universe." "I hope there won't be any of that Expanded Universe nonsense." "I hope they do the Original Trilogy style lightsaber fighting." "I hope they do the Prequel Trilogy style lightsaber fighting." "I hope there won't be any lightsaber fights."

You get the idea. And the members of the RPF who are Star Wars fans probably don't even constitute 1% of the Star Wars fanbase worldwide, so expand the thoughts and opinions expressed in this thread alone exponentially and I'm fairly certain you'll see the problems Abrams and Kasdan are facing. They could produce the best movie in the history of cinema, and somebody is still going to be upset because they didn't include Jar Jar Binks, Boba Fett, Mara Jade, Jacen and Jaina Solo, Quinlan Vos, the Gonk Droid, or the ashes of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru in the story.

 

[ralphee]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

In short, make it look like Starwars again, give us originality, a good script and screenplay, there is no point rehashing the junk in some novels and graphic novels, i don't want to see Douch Rectar and the like i guess, take us back a bit when SW was wow. Everybody has a different wish for the movie, we will never agree on all of them, but its a kids movie in the end, and id like to be taken back to being a kid, as the trash that was the PT just didn't.....no, it really didn't. Some of the darker grit we saw in TESB, yes please!

lee

 

[Krull]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

As for lightsaber battles, I want Prequel style fighting. The only reason the Jedi in the OT fought that way was because they were old, partly mechanical, or newly trained. Lucas said even then that we never saw a Jedi in their prime fighting in the OT. I think they can do away with some of the flashier stuff that makes no sense, but I don't want to see fencing. That's so 1920s movies.

If you want to know what I'd consider a good sword fight go watch a good Japanese Samurai movie,watch how they fight,it can be fast and crazy but not insane now add in throwing some stuff like Vader did and a little force lightning and I'd call it perfect.

I also believe that some of the people involved are here and reading this so maybe our discussion will give them a little direction to go in.

 

[CutThumb]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm quietly confident we will get something that delivers more in the way of the original trilogy than we could possibly hope. The team producing this know exactly what is needed, and the people that JJA knows personally that are truely diehard OT fans within the industry are the ones that I would absolutely trust to give him the guidance and input to make it more of the kind of experience we would love it to be. And tell him if he was headed in the wrong direction.
As much as I hate to point it out the New Trilogy still made a hell of a lot of money and remains popular with alot of the younger generation. I loath it for its infantalization of characters, over stylized and heavily CGI'd design, terrible dialogue and just clumsy story telling. The worst thing that ever happened to SW was the Lucas's getting divorced. His wife provided a perfect counter point to Georges weaknesses ,you only have to look at American Graffitti then SW, ESB and elements of Jedi to see just how much of an influence she had. Then look at everything George has produced after then. There are a few elements of the NT I admire, but mostly everything that made the others such timeless classics are simply missing in them. I almost weep when I think of they could have been.
Yet its unfair to keep knocking GL. He's done more to revolutionise cinema and the films we watch today than just about any other human being on the planet and I do get a bit annoyed to listen some of the critisism levelled at him. We got three very decent films out of him and dozens of other brilliant ones produced and enhanced using his effects team and studio production enhancements. If he has a weakness it was a belief that he could do it all, when, to be honest, when you read "The Making of" books you'll realise just what a superb team he built up from scratch that helped make the OT what it was and how when it finished they all went away to work on so many other great films.
Thats why with Kathleen Kennedy at the helm and a raft of the "old school " behind her I feel more confident this boat is shooting down the rapids with some decent sense of direction. I don't believe we will get a 100% "remake". Let us be honest, the OT does have its flaws and elements that everyone wants to change (Ewoks anyone) and theres a huge amount they can do with it, particularly by scrubbing the EU out. And Disney did not pay the money they did with the expectaion they were going to fail. Marvel is a maturing franchise now, and SW is the next income generator. Just think of the stories they could produce by just pushing the envelope a little. I'm still holding out for a Joe Johnson "Boba" movie. But the scope remains virtually limitless. And its interesting to see how the deliberate making of and marketing of "Rebels" is definitely targetting a younger audience to become more used to the OT themes, designs and universe than the prequels. Theres a definite shifting way from it.
So I do believe more than ever now ,even more so than when I heard about the decision had been made to shoot the next set, that perhaps now, more than any other time we will get a SW trilogy we can all be proud of again.

 

[Jaitea]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Great post CutThumb
J

 

[joshvanrad]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm quietly confident we will get something that delivers more in the way of the original trilogy than we could possibly hope. The team producing this know exactly what is needed, and the people that JJA knows personally that are truely diehard OT fans within the industry are the ones that I would absolutely trust to give him the guidance and input to make it more of the kind of experience we would love it to be. And tell him if he was headed in the wrong direction.
As much as I hate to point it out the New Trilogy still made a hell of a lot of money and remains popular with alot of the younger generation. I loath it for its infantalization of characters, over stylized and heavily CGI'd design, terrible dialogue and just clumsy story telling. The worst thing that ever happened to SW was the Lucas's getting divorced. His wife provided a perfect counter point to Georges weaknesses ,you only have to look at American Graffitti then SW, ESB and elements of Jedi to see just how much of an influence she had. Then look at everything George has produced after then. There are a few elements of the NT I admire, but mostly everything that made the others such timeless classics are simply missing in them. I almost weep when I think of they could have been.
Yet its unfair to keep knocking GL. He's done more to revolutionise cinema and the films we watch today than just about any other human being on the planet and I do get a bit annoyed to listen some of the critisism levelled at him. We got three very decent films out of him and dozens of other brilliant ones produced and enhanced using his effects team and studio production enhancements. If he has a weakness it was a belief that he could do it all, when, to be honest, when you read "The Making of" books you'll realise just what a superb team he built up from scratch that helped make the OT what it was and how when it finished they all went away to work on so many other great films.
Thats why with Kathleen Kennedy at the helm and a raft of the "old school " behind her I feel more confident this boat is shooting down the rapids with some decent sense of direction. I don't believe we will get a 100% "remake". Let us be honest, the OT does have its flaws and elements that everyone wants to change (Ewoks anyone) and theres a huge amount they can do with it, particularly by scrubbing the EU out. And Disney did not pay the money they did with the expectaion they were going to fail. Marvel is a maturing franchise now, and SW is the next income generator. Just think of the stories they could produce by just pushing the envelope a little. I'm still holding out for a Joe Johnson "Boba" movie. But the scope remains virtually limitless. And its interesting to see how the deliberate making of and marketing of "Rebels" is definitely targetting a younger audience to become more used to the OT themes, designs and universe than the prequels. Theres a definite shifting way from it.
So I do believe more than ever now ,even more so than when I heard about the decision had been made to shoot the next set, that perhaps now, more than any other time we will get a SW trilogy we can all be proud of again.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Just to be clear, I actually don't mind the fighting in Empire and Jedi. And the TPM duel is pretty awesome, too. The flippy-twirly stuff in the PT does get a bit ridiculous, but I actually think that, had the stories themselves been better, it wouldn't have mattered as much. I mean, the first Matrix movie had that same stylized kung-fu approach, but it still worked because it was an entertaining story. All I was trying to say earlier was that you wouldn't actually fight the way we saw in the prequels, or at least normal humans wouldn't. I suppose when you have superpowers that could change the dynamic, but it's never really been explained in any depth, and I don't think it needs to be.

I don't expect films to depict realistic fighting techniques because realistic fighting techniques don't tend to film particularly well. Really, though, I think the key is not the fighting styles but the underlying story and how it's told. So much of what people gripe about with the PT -- myself included -- would be generally overlooked if the underlying story had been more satisfying and executed in a less "silly" way (at least with respect to TPM). I mean, folks love the OT, but there are definitely aspects of it that could be nitpicked if the story wasn't as great. ROTJ is especially guilty of this. But it gets a pass because it wraps up the trilogy in a generally satisfying way, even if it's the weakest of the three, and the underlying story is great. If they can do that with these next films, then it won't matter what the swordplay style is.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Hopefully this will end some of the Ep. 7 sepeculation regarding inclusion of EU once and for all...

The Legendary Star Wars Expanded Universe Turns a New Page | StarWars.com

 

[Paul Andrew]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, that's one way to do that...

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Hopefully this will end some of the Ep. 7 sepeculation regarding inclusion of EU once and for all...

The Legendary Star Wars Expanded Universe Turns a New Page | StarWars.com

This is going to sound like I'm grasping at straws, trying desperately to cling onto false hope that the EU will live on as canon, but I swear it's not. All this article tells us is what we already knew, that the movies are not beholden to what came before. We still have no ideaIt may not follow the stories of the EU, but the other elements are fair game (characters, places, ships and weapons, species, etc.) so we still have no idea what's staying and what's going.