Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Wait. Is it a good idea to resort to an expanded universe book to try and make sense of something vague and overall silly in the movie? If you were only to take the films as the tried and true source of Star Wars canon, the whole "create life" thing sounds less of an accident and more of a deliberate attempt to violate and impregnate a woman without her knowledge or consent.
I think it makes sense. Why let someone tackle this prophecy when there is literally nothing to it? It's like trying to open a doorway into a room that everyone says is important and finding out that there was nothing in the room at all. It's only important because they say it's important.
Didn't Palpatine tell Anakin that the power to cheat death was something else entirely since he clearly stated he didn't know? I always interpreted it to mean that Palpatine knew that Qui-Gon somehow cheated death, but would in no way tell Anakin directly because that would go back on his whole "Not from a Jedi" line. He also sounded pretty convinced that Plagueis was killed by his apprentice in his sleep.
Wait. Is it a good idea to resort to an expanded universe book to try and make sense of something vague and overall silly in the movie? If you were only to take the films as the tried and true source of Star Wars canon, the whole "create life" thing sounds less of an accident and more of a deliberate attempt to violate and impregnate a woman without her knowledge or consent.
I think it makes sense. Why let someone tackle this prophecy when there is literally nothing to it? It's like trying to open a doorway into a room that everyone says is important and finding out that there was nothing in the room at all. It's only important because they say it's important.
Didn't Palpatine tell Anakin that the power to cheat death was something else entirely since he clearly stated he didn't know? I always interpreted it to mean that Palpatine knew that Qui-Gon somehow cheated death, but would in no way tell Anakin directly because that would go back on his whole "Not from a Jedi" line. He also sounded pretty convinced that Plagueis was killed by his apprentice in his sleep.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Of course not. That's why I used the term "violate" in describing that whole process of using midi-chlorians to create life.
Of course not. That's why I used the term "violate" in describing that whole process of using midi-chlorians to create life.
Westies14
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
There's no use trying to make those stories make sense. No one's motivations or actions are gonna make sense - or even be consistent - if you dissect them at all. The prequels have mercifully begun to fade from my mind. I can only hope that I live enough years to forget them entirely!
There's no use trying to make those stories make sense. No one's motivations or actions are gonna make sense - or even be consistent - if you dissect them at all. The prequels have mercifully begun to fade from my mind. I can only hope that I live enough years to forget them entirely!
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
It's always out of balance if the Sith exist at all. The whole Prophecy was supposed to be the Chosen One destroying the Sith. They also never implicitly state that the Sith are extinct, you just get a few Jedi who say that. That doesn't mean everyone believes they are gone. Yoda would have been one of the only Jedi old enough to meet (I assume) anyone who had experience with the Sith. You didn't hear Yoda say it, he just sat and listened.
As far as the ability to use the Force, we never heard about that at all until AOTC when Sidious was consolidating his power to take control. I assume that when he takes those steps that's what starts the Force actually going out of balance because the Sith are seizing power. The Jedi can still use the Force, but some abilities appear to be less useful. Those are the things Lucas should have made more clear.
The Dark Side and the Sith are different things. There will always be some Dark Side users just like there are probably Light Side users who aren't Jedi. The Sith's mission is to destroy the Jedi. The rest of the Dark Siders are probably just causing regional trouble. They are less of a threat.
It's always out of balance if the Sith exist at all. The whole Prophecy was supposed to be the Chosen One destroying the Sith. They also never implicitly state that the Sith are extinct, you just get a few Jedi who say that. That doesn't mean everyone believes they are gone. Yoda would have been one of the only Jedi old enough to meet (I assume) anyone who had experience with the Sith. You didn't hear Yoda say it, he just sat and listened.
As far as the ability to use the Force, we never heard about that at all until AOTC when Sidious was consolidating his power to take control. I assume that when he takes those steps that's what starts the Force actually going out of balance because the Sith are seizing power. The Jedi can still use the Force, but some abilities appear to be less useful. Those are the things Lucas should have made more clear.
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The Dark Side and the Sith are different things. There will always be some Dark Side users just like there are probably Light Side users who aren't Jedi. The Sith's mission is to destroy the Jedi. The rest of the Dark Siders are probably just causing regional trouble. They are less of a threat.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
That's a contradicting statement based on incorrect information. Episode One does have characters who implicitly state that the Sith are extinct...
Plus Ki Adi Mundi and Mace Windu are no small time Jedi either. They're on the Jedi council!
Sluis, I'm not going to give a movie credit for something it didn't even bother putting into the film. I understand that not every story should tell it's audience everything that is going on, but this isn't keeping the audience in the dark for the sake of the story. It's keeping the audience in the dark because it doesn't know what to do with it's own material. The only thing it can do is say that this vague thing is a big deal and call it a day.
The Sith's mission is to rule the galaxy. And since you mention it, I find it funny how when we get to the film where the Sith finally get their chance at revenge, it plays out more like the Jedi are just an inconvenience to Sidious' plan rather than a cold hearted act of vengeance. The prequel trilogy could have dropped the whole "revenge" business and you would have only needed to delete one line.
That's a contradicting statement based on incorrect information. Episode One does have characters who implicitly state that the Sith are extinct...
Ki Adi Mundi said:
Plus Ki Adi Mundi and Mace Windu are no small time Jedi either. They're on the Jedi council!
Sluis, I'm not going to give a movie credit for something it didn't even bother putting into the film. I understand that not every story should tell it's audience everything that is going on, but this isn't keeping the audience in the dark for the sake of the story. It's keeping the audience in the dark because it doesn't know what to do with it's own material. The only thing it can do is say that this vague thing is a big deal and call it a day.
Sluis Van Shipyards said:
The Sith's mission is to rule the galaxy. And since you mention it, I find it funny how when we get to the film where the Sith finally get their chance at revenge, it plays out more like the Jedi are just an inconvenience to Sidious' plan rather than a cold hearted act of vengeance. The prequel trilogy could have dropped the whole "revenge" business and you would have only needed to delete one line.
Zombie_61
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I tend to think of The Force as universal energy, pure and simple; it's in how the characters use it that makes it Light/Dark and Good/Bad.
Not really. The Light Side/Dark Side thing is really not much more than an allegory for Good Guy/Bad Guy. Light Side = Jedi = Good Guy; Dark Side = Sith = Bad Guy.
I tend to think of The Force as universal energy, pure and simple; it's in how the characters use it that makes it Light/Dark and Good/Bad.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Been following this thread for a long time and just spent a little bit catching up,I have to say looking at Hamill I'm ready for him to get back in as Luke and I hope he at least makes a major showing in VII,and maybe into the next one.
And as to the preset topic....
Always said,will always say that SW needs a group that uses the light and dark side equally someone who the Jedi have known about and disapprove of but can't stop,like maybe a race that has a whole planet behind them but aren't evil.
And I'm all for the one shot films,gimme some damn Boba!
Been following this thread for a long time and just spent a little bit catching up,I have to say looking at Hamill I'm ready for him to get back in as Luke and I hope he at least makes a major showing in VII,and maybe into the next one.
And as to the preset topic....
Always said,will always say that SW needs a group that uses the light and dark side equally someone who the Jedi have known about and disapprove of but can't stop,like maybe a race that has a whole planet behind them but aren't evil.
And I'm all for the one shot films,gimme some damn Boba!
Reelo
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Or someone like KotOR's Joleen Bindo. A disenchanted ex-Jedi who is inherently good at heart, but dismisses the Jedi's teachings as too aloof and near-sighted.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Or someone like KotOR's Joleen Bindo. A disenchanted ex-Jedi who is inherently good at heart, but dismisses the Jedi's teachings as too aloof and near-sighted.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
GiovanniDekkers
Active Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I wouldn't mind seeing some Criminal organization with Bounty Hunters , being run by a Darkside user, it makes the Evil more obvious.Seeing another Jedi struggling with the Dark Side as a main theme in a Star Wars Movie.....to be honest, I would like to see something else in the next movies....More focus on Space chases, more Epic Creature fights, fight scenes, less focus on dialogues about the Force, i'm not saying it shouldn't be about the Force, I'm just saying "A little less conversation, a little more action please!" also with the Prequels I had the feeling that the Fashion in Star Wars, was more important than the Story....in some scenes.
I wouldn't mind seeing some Criminal organization with Bounty Hunters , being run by a Darkside user, it makes the Evil more obvious.Seeing another Jedi struggling with the Dark Side as a main theme in a Star Wars Movie.....to be honest, I would like to see something else in the next movies....More focus on Space chases, more Epic Creature fights, fight scenes, less focus on dialogues about the Force, i'm not saying it shouldn't be about the Force, I'm just saying "A little less conversation, a little more action please!" also with the Prequels I had the feeling that the Fashion in Star Wars, was more important than the Story....in some scenes.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
MarketSaw - 3D Movies, Gaming and Technology: EXCLUSIVE: Source Update On STAR WARS EPISODE VII ! Casting, The Twins And TWO More Indys !!
Casting rumors now include Billy Dee Williams and Warwick Davis. No one knows for sure of course, but at least someone is trying to get Lando some work.
MarketSaw - 3D Movies, Gaming and Technology: EXCLUSIVE: Source Update On STAR WARS EPISODE VII ! Casting, The Twins And TWO More Indys !!
Casting rumors now include Billy Dee Williams and Warwick Davis. No one knows for sure of course, but at least someone is trying to get Lando some work.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Comedian Jim Jeffries was on the radio here in L.A. yesterday to promote his tv show. I guess Carrie Fisher is guesting on an episode and he mentioned that she said she'll be in London for 6 months to shoot the new Star Wars movie. Not exactly official news, I know, but its as close to a confirmation that we've had so far.
Comedian Jim Jeffries was on the radio here in L.A. yesterday to promote his tv show. I guess Carrie Fisher is guesting on an episode and he mentioned that she said she'll be in London for 6 months to shoot the new Star Wars movie. Not exactly official news, I know, but its as close to a confirmation that we've had so far.
cayman shen
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Regarding the whole balance to the force nonsense, I'll throw in my libertarian take: without the dark side, the force was out of balance. The Jedi had become complacent, self-satisfied, and corrupt. Witness their entitled behavior throughout the PT. It was the Jedi's ivory tower elitism that was the danger. THAT was why the force was out of balance.
But then, I have authority issues
Regarding the whole balance to the force nonsense, I'll throw in my libertarian take: without the dark side, the force was out of balance. The Jedi had become complacent, self-satisfied, and corrupt. Witness their entitled behavior throughout the PT. It was the Jedi's ivory tower elitism that was the danger. THAT was why the force was out of balance.
But then, I have authority issues
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I agree. Without both existing there is no balance. This concept was explored in the CW Mortis Trilogy of episodes.
Regarding the whole balance to the force nonsense, I'll throw in my libertarian take: without the dark side, the force was out of balance. The Jedi had become complacent, self-satisfied, and corrupt. Witness their entitled behavior throughout the PT. It was the Jedi's ivory tower elitism that was the danger. THAT was why the force was out of balance.
But then, I have authority issues
I agree. Without both existing there is no balance. This concept was explored in the CW Mortis Trilogy of episodes.
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
On the "balance to the Force" thing.
First, I disregard Lucas' interpretation, because it's apparently all over the place, meaning alternately that the Sith are destroyed, and/or that there's balance between dark and light. So, yeah, I don't think he really knows and just threw in some stuff that sounded cool. Or he just changed his opinions periodically because that's what he seems to do, and whatever his whim was at a given moment was the latest interpretation of "canon." So, screw all that noise.
My view was less about dark vs. like, or Jedi vs. Sith, but rather passion vs. dispassion. If you look at the Jedi during the prequels, they're almost always dispassionate and very...reasonable. They think, but they don't really feel. Anakin, on the other hand, is a cauldron of boiling emotions that eventually boils over and he loses control of himself. My supposition (unconfirmed by anything I've seen that's regarded as primary canon) is that the Jedi took children as young as possible, so that they could be raised to be dispassionate and reasonable, because the Old Republic Jedi thought that was the best way to ensure that they wouldn't fall to the Sith. But with Anakin, he was taken at an older age, where he was already full of emotion. Fear, anger at being a slave, anxiety from being separated from his mom (never mind that he freaking chose to leave...), and so on. The Jedi were totally unequipped to contain this, and ended up losing control of him.
I tend to think that Luke is the one who ultimately finds the balance in the Force, in that he's emotional, but calm. He doesn't ignore his feelings or repress them, but he doesn't let them control him either. That's what I think was missing with the Jedi. They repressed or ignored their emotions, whereas the Sith just gave into feeling whatever, whenever, and doing whatever they please.
On the "balance to the Force" thing.
First, I disregard Lucas' interpretation, because it's apparently all over the place, meaning alternately that the Sith are destroyed, and/or that there's balance between dark and light. So, yeah, I don't think he really knows and just threw in some stuff that sounded cool. Or he just changed his opinions periodically because that's what he seems to do, and whatever his whim was at a given moment was the latest interpretation of "canon." So, screw all that noise.
My view was less about dark vs. like, or Jedi vs. Sith, but rather passion vs. dispassion. If you look at the Jedi during the prequels, they're almost always dispassionate and very...reasonable. They think, but they don't really feel. Anakin, on the other hand, is a cauldron of boiling emotions that eventually boils over and he loses control of himself. My supposition (unconfirmed by anything I've seen that's regarded as primary canon) is that the Jedi took children as young as possible, so that they could be raised to be dispassionate and reasonable, because the Old Republic Jedi thought that was the best way to ensure that they wouldn't fall to the Sith. But with Anakin, he was taken at an older age, where he was already full of emotion. Fear, anger at being a slave, anxiety from being separated from his mom (never mind that he freaking chose to leave...), and so on. The Jedi were totally unequipped to contain this, and ended up losing control of him.
I tend to think that Luke is the one who ultimately finds the balance in the Force, in that he's emotional, but calm. He doesn't ignore his feelings or repress them, but he doesn't let them control him either. That's what I think was missing with the Jedi. They repressed or ignored their emotions, whereas the Sith just gave into feeling whatever, whenever, and doing whatever they please.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I have always liked the 'grey' Jedi thought. That you had dark and light, then Grey. Those Jedi's who did not rule out emotion, and tapped into the 'dark' side as needed, but always tempered it with a sense of justice so as to not allow themselves to become corrupt.
Luke was, in my opinion a grey Jedi. He force choked Gammorian guards to enter Jabba's palace. heck, he killed everyone just to save Han. He used the force to serve his own ends, but still was a 'good guy' in the sense that he never used any dark influence for personal power.
I have always liked the 'grey' Jedi thought. That you had dark and light, then Grey. Those Jedi's who did not rule out emotion, and tapped into the 'dark' side as needed, but always tempered it with a sense of justice so as to not allow themselves to become corrupt.
Luke was, in my opinion a grey Jedi. He force choked Gammorian guards to enter Jabba's palace. heck, he killed everyone just to save Han. He used the force to serve his own ends, but still was a 'good guy' in the sense that he never used any dark influence for personal power.
Lutso
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Well, if it counts for anything, here's Wookieepedia's take on the prophecy. Like it really matters:
Chosen One - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
The behind-the-scenes references are chock full of contradictions and alternate theories. This really is messy.
Oh, and by Wookieepedia standards, that article is amazingly short. LOL
Well, if it counts for anything, here's Wookieepedia's take on the prophecy. Like it really matters:
Chosen One - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
The behind-the-scenes references are chock full of contradictions and alternate theories. This really is messy.
Oh, and by Wookieepedia standards, that article is amazingly short. LOL
cayman shen
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Someone should've reminded Lucas about Chekov's law. What the hell is this prophecy? Why do the Sith want revenge? What is the significance of force ghosts? You can't just introduce crap, show it's important, and not deal with it!! I swear the man would give directions from LA to Boston and never mention any roads. He'd be like "well, you kind of need to drive, see? Except according to Campbell it's the journey. I think Boston's in Pennsylvania. Who are you again?"
Hopefully whomever writes ep vii will have taken a high school creative writing course.
Someone should've reminded Lucas about Chekov's law. What the hell is this prophecy? Why do the Sith want revenge? What is the significance of force ghosts? You can't just introduce crap, show it's important, and not deal with it!! I swear the man would give directions from LA to Boston and never mention any roads. He'd be like "well, you kind of need to drive, see? Except according to Campbell it's the journey. I think Boston's in Pennsylvania. Who are you again?"
Hopefully whomever writes ep vii will have taken a high school creative writing course.
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