Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

I think their mistake in that was using the word Resistance. The word resistance implies the FO is in control and they're resisting their rule. A form of Guard(ian)s, protection/protectorate, or something along those lines would have worked better IMO without giving the wrong impression.

Nothing wrong with Vague, but to me, Resistance was/is misleading.

Misleading? No. Confusing? Yes. And that's basically my point.

Here's my understanding, based on what I've read thus far:

- After the battle of Endor, the war continues for another 2-3 years or so, culminating in the Battle of Jakku, at which point the last major Imperial force is decisively defeated.

- The Republic and the Empire then sign a peace treaty, allowing the Empire to continue to exist and occupy a small group of planets, but requiring them both to disarm.

- The Republic upholds its obligations, but the Empire (or at least portions of it) retreat to the Outer Rim, and begin rearming and rebuilding their war machine, intent on returning one day to crust the Republic and restore the Empire. This new force is called the First Order.

- Paralyzed by internal disagreements between those absolutely committed to maintaining peace, and those who realize that the First Order cannot be bargained with, the Republic refuses to take any steps which might further antagonize the Imperial Remnant/First Order. Frustrated at this, Leia and several others form the Resistance, which is essentially the only military force to speak of (outside of meager planetary defense forces).

- The Resistance begins to actively oppose the First Order, as the First Order begins to spread out and claim more and more territory, all while the Republic is still debating whether to rearm and fight back.

That's the situation when the movie starts. Waaaaaaaay upthread, I tried modifying the opening crawl. It probably would've been a bit longer, but it conveyed the bulk of this, and at least distinguished the Republic from the Resistance, and explained their (lack of) relationship. I think this could've been addressed in exposition elsewhere in the film, too.

Actually JJ wanted to explain more in the movie but Lawrence Kasdan actually told him "you don't need that, trust the audience."

In general, this is a good idea. You can show without telling. But the problem with TFA was that there were too many leaps to make, and too little time to make them. I truly believe that the film need another 10-15 min to allow characters and plot points to develop/breathe and give space for exposition. Not that every detail has to be spelled out, but more than what we got in the film. There were just a few too many moments that required the audience to draw conclusions from unavailable information, to the point where the message was less "trust the audience" and more "Whatever, that doesn't matter, just shut up and enjoy the ride."

Not true. People still like great films. But there's a difference between a well told story where the audience is led to make assumptions and one that's playing fast and loose to keep their options open. Frankly, I doubt Abrams even knew the story about lukes' lightsabre.

Here's another thing I would change. Finn's fall out from the first order was terrible. He wasn't a bad guy turned good. He was good all along. Seriously, how is a former stormtrooper supposed to be the comic relief?

Look at nux in fury road. THAT was a fantastic way of seeing a bad guy fall out with the bad guys. It was natural and honest

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

This gets to one of my major criticisms of the film. Even if we set aside the stuff about worldbuilding that didn't go far enough, and context for the events of the film coming at the expense of action sequences, the characters themselves end up occupying positions that they haven't earned. I don't mean in the sense of "Kirk shouldn't be captain because he hasn't worked long enough." I mean, like, Finn and Poe's friendship coming out of nowhere, or Finn and Rey's relationship developing at a seriously accelerated rate. Finn and Poe behave as if they're best friends, but haven't really earned that relationship with only about 20-30 min of actual real-world interaction. Granted, it was tense interaction, but they behave the way, say, Han and Luke do at the end of ANH, and they just haven't had that kind of interaction. Finn and Rey do, but they become much closer much sooner in the process, and most of this is because (1) we need these characters to be positioned such that they're best buds and the new "big three", and (2) once they step into those positions, we're supposed to just accept that.

But all of this comes from the audience's meta-expectations of the film, rather than from what's shown on screen. We accept that they're heroes and friends because we're primed to know that those are the roles they're supposed to be playing, regardless of the film showing their actual development. So we end up skipping the development simply because "Well, they're the heroes." We skip the building blocks of their relationships because "Well, they're the new characters who take over from Luke, Leia, and Han." But it's like stepping into someone else's shoes and the size is maybe half a size too big; you haven't grown the fill the shoes yet. That's not to say you can't, or won't, but just that it hasn't happened yet. That's where, I think, Kasdan's insistence on not explaining was mistaken (or mistakenly interpreted by Abrams).


As for the notion of the Rathtar sequence being necessary, the only necessary part is Han finding the Falcon and then going with the kids to Maz's place. There's literally no need for an action sequence. You just need to get Han and Chewie off the ship. Ways that could happen:

- After breaking down, the new ship docks with the Falcon through a purpose-built docking socket, which also allows the new ship to be slaved to the Falcon to allow the Falcon to fly both ships simultaneously. They then fly to Maz's. When the First Order attacks (tipped off by first order loyalists), everyone boards the Falcon, rather than the new ship (or new ship gets blown up in the FO attack).

- Han and Chewie board the Falcon together, get it running again. Han says "Chewie, follow us with the new ship. You know where we're headed. I'll stay here and make sure this old girl keeps flying." Then they fly to Maz's. When the First Order attacks (tipped off by first order loyalists), everyone boards the Falcon, after the new ship is blown up.

- Han and Chewie board the Falcon, then take the kids to their ship, which is subsequently boarded by ONE pirate gang. There is a BRIEF fight, where Han and Chewie set the new ship's self destruct, everyone runs to the Falcon, and they fly away. No Rathtars needed. Sequence lasts 5 min at most, and then they fly to Maz's. (I like this option the least, actually.)

- If we want to play with the whole Force guiding Rey thing, Finn and Rey land on Maz's planet, based on "a feeling" Rey has, after the Falcon has mechanical problems. While there, they meet Han and Chewie. Again, FO attacks (after being tipped off), Han's new ship gets blown up, everyone boards the Falcon.

Once everyone is on board the Falcon (either on the way to Maz's or after the FO attack), you have time for exposition and character development.
 
Some nice replacements for the Rathtar's scene Dan,...It would have been nice to see the docking ports in action

Astro,....You are probably right about JJ not knowing the back story about Luke's sabre,...but then Lucas didn't have a clear idea who Yoda hoped 'The Other' was either in ESB

"I don't know, I'm making it up as I go"

J
 
Here's another couple of rathtar replacement ideas

-Instead of two gangs and a monster, the threat is the ugly dude they stole the falcon from. His gang of space thugs show up and raid the freighter. And I like the idea of the self destruct.



Here's another one (that I like the best): Right after they get pulled into the freighter and have their introduction, the first order star destroyer shows up (Because their escape from Jakku was stupidly easy) and pulls the freighter into a tractor beam. Just as the the freighter is almost in the docking bay, the falcon takes off from inside, leaving them all in the dust.

In a way, that would be similar to the end of ESB when the falcon hyperdrive is fixed.

But imagine the moment when Ren thinks they have them only to see the falcon emerge out of the freighter. The sudden realization on his face that Han solo and the Falcon are now involved in this. A perfect character moment.

Edit: what I like about this is that both of these solutions are less based on ridiculous coincidences. Han finding the falcon at that moment was enough of a stretch. But TWO space gangs arriving a moment later is beyond stupid.

Whereas if the threat was following rey/finn, everything becomes a lot more plausible.
 
Last edited:
Dan:

Finn and Poe behave as if they're best friends, but haven't really earned that relationship with only about 20-30 min of actual real-world interaction. Granted, it was tense interaction, but they behave the way, say, Han and Luke do at the end of ANH, and they just haven't had that kind of interaction.

Disagree with you a bit here, IMHO Finn’s and Poe’s interaction was pretty comparable – time wise and interaction-wise - with Han and Luke. In ANH, Luke meets Han, immediately offends him, meets him again at the ship (immediately offends him again), spend little time on the MF (either not talking or criticizing each other), have a few hours on the DS (much of it spent separately) and then have minimal interaction on Yavin (Luke is off preparing for the DS run, Han is packing his loot). Then Han comes back to save Luke. Finn and Poe’s time together may have been more brief, but it was certainly as “bond-worthy”) given it almost entirely consisted of each one putting his neck on the line for the other.

So, I’m not saying the Finn-Poe thing was entirely believable – I am saying that the Han-Luke relationship was no more believable, if we are to base our appraisal of each just on what we saw in the film. (Same goes for the overall Luke-Han-Leia relationship – the only ones with any real interaction in that group were Luke and Leia when they were off on their own on the DS.)

As for the notion of the Rathtar sequence being necessary, the only necessary part is Han finding the Falcon and then going with the kids to Maz's place. There's literally no need for an action sequence. You just need to get Han and Chewie off the ship. Ways that could happen

Now, this I agree with wholeheartedly, and with your suggestions. But let me go one further, that, to me is even more simplistic and maybe even true to character:

- Finn and Rey tell Han about looking for Luke, Han realizes they need to go to Takodana.
- Han says “let’s go” and heads into the cockpit for the Falcon.
- “But, what about your ship?”
- “Don’t care. Leave it. I’ve got the Falcon back.”

M
 
Here's another couple of rathtar replacement ideas

-Instead of two gangs and a monster, the threat is the ugly dude they stole the falcon from. His gang of space thugs show up and raid the freighter. And I like the idea of the self destruct.



Here's another one (that I like the best): Right after they get pulled into the freighter and have their introduction, the first order star destroyer shows up (Because their escape from Jakku was stupidly easy) and pulls the freighter into a tractor beam. Just as the the freighter is almost in the docking bay, the falcon takes off from inside, leaving them all in the dust.

In a way, that would be similar to the end of ESB when the falcon hyperdrive is fixed.

But imagine the moment when Ren thinks they have them only to see the falcon emerge out of the freighter. The sudden realization on his face that Han solo and the Falcon are now involved in this. A perfect character moment.

Edit: what I like about this is that both of these solutions are less based on ridiculous coincidences. Han finding the falcon at that moment was enough of a stretch. But TWO space gangs arriving a moment later is beyond stupid.

Whereas if the threat was following rey/finn, everything becomes a lot more plausible.

i always thought the second gang was on the same ship as the first. and that they all boarded at once and the second gang circled around capturing han in the middle.

"tell that to con ja club" seemed like the punch line for the club to reveal themselves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dan:
Now, this I agree with wholeheartedly, and with your suggestions. But let me go one further, that, to me is even more simplistic and maybe even true to character:

- Finn and Rey tell Han about looking for Luke, Han realizes they need to go to Takodana.
- Han says “let’s go” and heads into the cockpit for the Falcon.
- “But, what about your ship?”
- “Don’t care. Leave it. I’ve got the Falcon back.”

M


SoloCockpit-800x400.jpg


J
 
i always thought the second gang was on the same ship as the first. and that they all boarded at once and the second gang circled around capturing han in the middle.

"tell that to con ja club" seemed like the punch line for the club to reveal themselves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the feeling I got as well. Somehow each gang got wind of Han crossing them both, and or found out what he was up to and decided to act on getting revenge on him together.
 
Since Luke didn't take the lightsaber from Rey in The Force Awakens, they could also have him touch it, then do a "vision montage" of sorts that shows how it got from A to Z that would occupy maybe 10-20 seconds. As they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words, so a moving picture...well, you get the idea.

That being said, I agree the lightsaber's journey is ultimately irrelevant to the overall story as we currently know it, and if they do take the time to explain how it came into Maz' possession it would only be to appease the fans.

The whole point of the movie is to appease the fans! Wait. Am I being selfish? Haha.
 
When people use terms like "fan service" I cringe. People bitched for years that they didn't get what they want. Now they bitch when they seem to get what many of them want because it's "pandering". Damned by some if they do, and damned by some if they don't. They can't win everyone over. Getting a majority to be pleased is the goal.

The whole point of the movie is to appease the fans! Wait. Am I being selfish? Haha.
 
I'm gonna take this moment to acknowledge that it seems south park is devoting an entire season to commenting on TFA.

Mmmmmm 'memberberries

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
 
So, I'm sorry if this has been addressed already, but were shadowtroopers made canon in TFA? I don't recall whether or not he made it into the movie, but there was concept art for an "old stormtrooper barfly" at Maz' castle, and he was also in the Lego game.
 
So, I'm sorry if this has been addressed already, but were shadowtroopers made canon in TFA? I don't recall whether or not he made it into the movie, but there was concept art for an "old stormtrooper barfly" at Maz' castle, and he was also in the Lego game.

i remember him in this photo, but not seeing him in the movie
latest?cb=20150504135723.jpg
 
He's a bounty hunter/fringer. If we were watching the film together, I'd point to where he can be seen during the Maz's castle scenes. Nothing to indicate he was ever a Stormtrooper. He got the helmet at some point. He was acknowledged to be inspired by the guy on the cover Tim Bradstreet did for Wizard's "Boba Fett #1/2" comic that came out in the late '90s...

tumblr_ni8wquIoJ81rvm4udo1_500.png


...but I haven't seen anything saying whether he is or is not intended to be that same individual (just having painted the helmet and written "FEAR" on it in the time since).

As for Shadow Troopers... I don't know how canon the gameplay elements of Battlefront are intended to be, and I haven't read Twilight Company yet, so I don't know if the Shadow Troopers that are a part of that game are considered canon. Me, I feel the Shadow Troopers, Shadow Scouts, and Shadow Guards are a part of the universe until they're not. They make too much sense as veteran/elite/spec-ops upgrades to the standard troop type, with the Nova Trooper being yet one step higher on the Trooper hierarchy -- like the Buckingham Palace Guard, or the President's Marine Sentries. I like to think LFL wouldn't have let them put them in the game if they didn't at least tacitly consider them to be "legit". We'll learn more over time.

--Jonah
 
Back
Top