Not to belabor the point further, but the degree of "important" is subjective and varies widely based on the other responses in this thread.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
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Not to belabor the point further, but the degree of "important" is subjective and varies widely based on the other responses in this thread.
Riceball
Master Member
Sure, it may be 10 seconds but is it really needed? That 10 seconds may take several minutes of actual shooting time and, not to mention, that if you include every little 10 second moment to explain some tangential bit of info you'll find yourself making Kevin Costner style movies where nothing is cut.
Some more fun tidbits from JJ...
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016...nic-duel-at-the-end-of-the-force-awakens.html
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016...nic-duel-at-the-end-of-the-force-awakens.html
Solo4114
Master Member
Bingo.
Here's the problem. You have an already roughly 120min movie at a minimum. Probably closer to 132 or 137 or so.
It's not a TV show where you have a total runtime of 924 min in a season (standard US "hour-long" drama with commercials and a 22-ep season) or even 650 min (premium cable show with 50 min episodes and a 13-ep season). You don't have anywhere near as much time to develop the backstory. It all has to be conveyed as best as possible very, very quickly, if at all.
In the meantime, you're trying to tell the current story of these characters right here, and specifically the resolution of the central drama that they face in this film. In TFA, the central drama was (1) finding Luke, and (2) stopping the First Order's Starkiller Base. There's more going on, obviously, but those are the big motivations that get everyone moving around in the film. The thing is, all of that "more" that's going on is time spent NOT building to a resolution of the central drama.
On top of this, because you want them to appear lifelike, relatable, and make the audience care about them, you need to spend time fleshing out your characters and letting the audience get to know them, understand their motivations, and the things that prevent them from attaining those goals. You need to have them establish relationships with the other characters, and make those relationships believable, too. All of that then has to feed back into resolving the central drama of the film.
That's a LOT of moving parts that all have to move together, while some of them also spin on their own.
Mixed in with all of that, you also have to do what's known as worldbuilding, where you create background for the environment and setting in which the story occurs, all to make the space in which the characters are acting feel more realistic and fully fleshed out.
Something like the provenance of the lightsabre is, ultimately, irrelevant to those goals. At best, it's worldbuilding. It doesn't even rise to the status of a Macguffin, because in TFA at least, Luke is the Macguffin. He's the object that propels most of the action (but with which the audience doesn't really need or have a chance to engage). Luke is the Ark of the Covenant, or the microfilm, or the audio recording of the assassination attempt, or whatever. The lightsabre isnt' even that. It is, at most, a clue towards obtaining the Macguffin, like the headpiece to the Staff of Ra, or the photo of the well-dressed gentleman getting into the limousine with the suspicious box, or whathaveyou. It's a link in the chain that moves the characters closer to Luke (and also triggers the start of a separate journey for Rey, which presumably makes up a good portion of the next two films).
So, finding out where it's been, who has had it, and how it got from A to B is ultimately...irrelevant for the story of TFA.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if SOME explanation is offered for its past in Ep. VIII, if only because it's already been highlighted that it's "a story for another time." That story, however, likely will not be all that well developed. A couple options:
1. It was retrieved by Luke, who gave it to Leia, who then gave it to Ben. When Ben killed a bunch of Luke's students, he left it as a "calling card" so that Luke would know for certain who had done this (although by then, as Kylo Ren, Ben would otherwise not be public about his identity). Luke then gives it away to Maz because it's too painful for him to keep.
2. Luke defeated Ben initially, when he started going dark, but spared Ben's life. Luke took the sabre from Ben (who himself had gone and dug it up), and then gave it to Maz.
3. Luke got the sabre and gave it to someone else after he rejected his destiny as a Jedi, following his failure as a teacher. That someone gave it to Maz (or gave it to someone who gave it to someone who.....gave it to Maz).
Alternatively, the issue may never be addressed, if the sabre's backstory doesn't end up relating to the central tale. There's no reason to go into detail if, for example, the sabre was recovered by Lando, who meant to give it to Luke, but then Luke went into hiding, so Lando gave it to Maz. Is that story relevant to the rest of the tale? No, not at all. So it doesn't need to be told in the film.
Basically, I wouldn't get my hopes up that the sabre backstory is going to be (A) particularly elaborate, or (B) explained in the film if the backstory is elaborate. It's probably worth maybe a 30-45sec explanation, and that's it.
I don't think Luke had anything to do with getting it back. And watch the Star Wars show today, they have the JJ commentary of Rey in the Force back, very opportune timing for our discussion!
https://youtu.be/uSK9NpzBBH8
https://youtu.be/uSK9NpzBBH8
Solos blaster
Sr Member
Admittedly, I'll be fine with that. As long as it doesn't have/need to be drawn out into a novel/comic further down the line, it can also be as bland an explanation as possible.
Solo4114
Master Member
Don't get me wrong. I agree with the underlying criticism that Abrams relies far too much on ancillary materials to flesh out details that either shouldn't be referenced at all (because they're a distraction to just reference but drop and leave questions) or which should at least be given a very brief explanation.
I recall there being some stuff with the issue of what happened to the old timeline in Trek '09 that was explained in a comic. Likewise, the precise nature of the Republic, the Resistance, and the First Order, and how they all came to be were apparently addressed in the novelization of TFA. But these things tended to leave big, obvious questions while watching the film which end up just serving as a distraction. I can accept that they aren't really relevant to the story...but then I'd say Abrams tends to rely far too much on roller-coaster thrills to fill runtimes which could be swapped out for 5-10 min of exposition.
In both Trek '09 and TFA, there were action sequences that just felt kinda pointless to me, but which were still included, where I saw an opportunity to take a freaking breath and provide exposition.
For example, imagine cutting the whole Rathtar action sequence (which lasts for about 10 min or so), and in its place having some time in the film to explain (1) Why the Republic isn't fighting the First Order; (2) Where the First Order came from and its relationship with the Empire; (3) Who the hell the Resistance are in relation to the Republic. None of these things are "mysteries" the way, say, "What happened to Luke training other Jedi, and why'd Ben go bad?" are. Those are legitimate mysteries to be revealed down the road. But these other basic things? They should've been covered in the opening crawl, in a discussion between Rey and Finn or Finn and Poe or whatever, in some backstory provided by Han to Rey and Finn, etc.
That stuff just bugs me.
Solos blaster
Sr Member
I agree completely(especially the bolded, but I have not seen the new Trek movies), and I think THAT is the bad taste in my mouth that comes back when I think about the saber and Maz's line. No breathing room left for exposition instead an almost nonstop "thrill" ride.
I get that you can draw plot points out much more so in the novels, even the OT movie novelizations had more info in them, even if it has been retconned for the most part by the PT and what not. But that's a given you will glean more from the books. We don't need to know everything that had happened in the last 30 years like you said, but most of it could've been easily answered with a line or two given, e.g. The Republic's stance on the First Order, when Han left to return to smuggling, the saber, etc. instead, we got nothing.
Snikt
Sr Member
Im starting to wonder if youre a cyborg or some type of replicant.
Jaitea
Master Member
There were a few things that I wouldn't have minded they had done differently,...but I'm not hung up about them.....I didn't hate the Rathtar scene,...I thought the resemblance to the Sarlaac was pretty cool....the CG was of great quality......BUT,....really that scene was to pad out Han & Chewie leaving behind the starship they had been using since loosing the Falcon......without the Rathtar scene how would that section of the film worked,.....entrapping the Falcon,....then just leaving the Eravana behind??......the whole recapturing the Falcon would have had to be rethought. Leaving the Eravana at lightspeed was questionable.
The rough handling of The Falcon was unnecessary ,...smacking the ground on Jakku & the Starkiller planet,.....disrespectful......really no need for that
I didn't have a problem with anything else,....just a pity they overlooked the Leia & Chewie scene after Han's death
J
The rough handling of The Falcon was unnecessary ,...smacking the ground on Jakku & the Starkiller planet,.....disrespectful......really no need for that
I didn't have a problem with anything else,....just a pity they overlooked the Leia & Chewie scene after Han's death
J
cboath
Master Member
I think their mistake in that was using the word Resistance. The word resistance implies the FO is in control and they're resisting their rule. A form of Guard(ian)s, protection/protectorate, or something along those lines would have worked better IMO without giving the wrong impression.
Nothing wrong with Vague, but to me, Resistance was/is misleading.
Jaitea
Master Member
I think it harks back to WWII,.....The First Order = Nazi,....The Resistance = French Resistance (& allies),....The Republic = Rest of the World.
The First Order were trying to claw back the power of the defeated Empire,...continuing on from what was left......The Resistance are a movement who are actively trying to stub out the growth of the First Order before they consume again the Republic and become a new Empire
J
That interrpretation of the state of the galaxy is also consistent with the books. The Resistance was distinct and separate from the New Republic.
astroboy
Master Member
You know what the rathtar scene reminded me of? That awful scene in the Phantom menace where they were going through the planet's core and big fish were trying to eat the sub.
It was such a contrived conflict.
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Zombie_61
Master Member
Since Luke didn't take the lightsaber from Rey in The Force Awakens, they could also have him touch it, then do a "vision montage" of sorts that shows how it got from A to Z that would occupy maybe 10-20 seconds. As they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words, so a moving picture...well, you get the idea.
That being said, I agree the lightsaber's journey is ultimately irrelevant to the overall story as we currently know it, and if they do take the time to explain how it came into Maz' possession it would only be to appease the fans.
Jaitea
Master Member
In the old days,....yeah....nowadays with the internet etc....there's too many nitpickers
J
astroboy
Master Member
Not true. People still like great films. But there's a difference between a well told story where the audience is led to make assumptions and one that's playing fast and loose to keep their options open. Frankly, I doubt Abrams even knew the story about lukes' lightsabre.
Here's another thing I would change. Finn's fall out from the first order was terrible. He wasn't a bad guy turned good. He was good all along. Seriously, how is a former stormtrooper supposed to be the comic relief?
Look at nux in fury road. THAT was a fantastic way of seeing a bad guy fall out with the bad guys. It was natural and honest
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