KrangPrime
Master Member
FYI, rifftrax is doing a kickstarter where on e of the reward unlockables is a TFA commentary ;o)
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
p51
Sr Member
Ren took his helmet off so many times, you had to wonder what the reason was for it to begin with? Yeah, it's clearly a Vader tribute but he fought with it off for a reason, showing how it wasn't practical. All the other Sith were frankly more menacing than he is. And I think that's where all the 'Emo' comments are coming from. More so his physical presence than how he's acting throughout the most recent film.
That's my take, anyway.
When he took the helmet off the first time, I couldn't help but think, "That's the guy who stopped a blaster round in med air?"
That's my take, anyway.
When he took the helmet off the first time, I couldn't help but think, "That's the guy who stopped a blaster round in med air?"
I saw all these movies when they first came out and I think I was 13 when ROTJ came out. And even then as Vader picked up the Emperor for his, "Surf's up, pal!" scene, I thought to myself immediately, "Seriously? This is the same guy who choked out Admirals when their performance rating was just under par?" I never bought into that scene.
Maul was the most underused bad guy in sci-fi history. They could (and should) have developed him throughout the prequels, ending up with him in the Dooku role at the end of episode 3...
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Agreed. And had Dooku replace Grievous. I simply refuse to buy that anyone not trained in the Force could have anything on a Jedi, regardless of how many sabers he wielded. A Jedi would simply Force lift him off the floor, cut his silly robotic arms off and that would be the end of that character. Having him best any Jedi weakened their credibility and abilities when we have seen what they can do.
Maul was the muscle where Dooku was the tactician. A perfect match. Though that would conflict with the two-Sith rule... unless Dooku was just a fallen Jedi and never became a Sith, but just sided with them and aided their course. He never sported yellow burning eyes, like Sith usually do.
p51
Sr Member
Brent M
Sr Member
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then because it's still the best lightsaber duel in all 7 movies by a wide margin.
Rest in Peace Erik Bauersfeld. Thanks for your work and one last go at the Admiral.
Erik Bauersfeld 1922 ~ 2016
Erik Bauersfeld 1922 ~ 2016
RougeAvenger81
Well-Known Member
My take is innocents or not he's almost so detached that emotionally he's removed from them. Not saying it shouldn't be conflicting, but killing his own father was his way of putting any past or any torn thoughts behind him. Up until that point, Han, Leia all thought he could still be saved. Like Vadar there was still good in him. I think now that he has gone so far there is no coming back from that. Up until that point you could tell how conflicted he was. After that, although mostly fight scenes, there was no hesitation in anything he did. Just my interpretation as to how he awoke so to speak.
cboath
Master Member
The only problem with that is Vader did far worse over the course of what? 25-30 years? and Ren's done some bad, killed people and his father - but still not remotely as far gone as vader was. Vader had no family whatsoever...no father and his mother died when he was 16-18 or so. So he had even less to be attached too (Ren still has his mother for one). Not to mention he killed the remaining jedi - including a temple full of CHILDREN - and thought he essentially killed off his own son (when luke dropped off the bespin spire). No way at all that Ren's farther gone than vader. None at all.
The upshot of Jedi becomes, you can be redeemed from damn near anything you've done.
Now, that's not to say Ren can't go on to be as evil, but i don't think that happens with his mother still out there. Either way i find it nearly impossible for him to exceed vader in the evil category.
The upshot of Jedi becomes, you can be redeemed from damn near anything you've done.
Now, that's not to say Ren can't go on to be as evil, but i don't think that happens with his mother still out there. Either way i find it nearly impossible for him to exceed vader in the evil category.
RougeAvenger81
Well-Known Member
Looking at the PT fight scenes. Although at first glance, like someone else said, I was like oh that's cool looking. Now I look at it for what it is. A choreographed dance with a lightsaber. Jedi/Sith or force user, the moves utilized in the PT are not meant to kill anyone. I don't even see with precognition how they would practically see these moves useful in a fight. It's already been said, but I must agree. For the most part the fights were more meeting lightsaber to lightsaber. No attempt to really kill anyone.
The OT and even more so in TFA, there was so much more feeling to them. It wasn't a dance. It was Finn trying not to die. Ren trying to take his head off. Rey trying to take out Ren, but until calming herself down could barely hold her own. JJ even explained this, to which I completely agree. He said in an interview the fight scenes were meant to be emotional, raw, and brutal to an extent. And they were. Rey had never used a lightsaber, but had skill with a staff. Ren obviously had some training, but was still a novice. Both showed and the raw emotion then came out as a result. A simple, basic thought. Kill the other person or for some, survive.
The OT and even more so in TFA, there was so much more feeling to them. It wasn't a dance. It was Finn trying not to die. Ren trying to take his head off. Rey trying to take out Ren, but until calming herself down could barely hold her own. JJ even explained this, to which I completely agree. He said in an interview the fight scenes were meant to be emotional, raw, and brutal to an extent. And they were. Rey had never used a lightsaber, but had skill with a staff. Ren obviously had some training, but was still a novice. Both showed and the raw emotion then came out as a result. A simple, basic thought. Kill the other person or for some, survive.
KrangPrime
Master Member
I was thinking this while watching TFA this weekend.
You could be a mass murderer in the star wars galaxy..but people are so used to seeing that, it's like... 'OK, there's SOME good in him.......we'll ignore that he killed thousands... come home.. your room is still the same, I'll wake you up for school just like I used to...it'll all be ok.'
seriously, people in SW universe are hopeless optimists...kind of like reboot defenders ;o)...j/k
RougeAvenger81
Well-Known Member
You have a great argument. And honestly, I have nothing to counter with except there is something about Ren's character, to me, that says him killing Han, his own dad sealed his fate and was his way of giving into the dark side fully. Now Vadar, although he had done much worse, had Luke to slowly bring him back. Almost fight for him to be good. One could say Leia could do that for Ren, but let's be honest a father son bond being broken in the way he went about it is a strong sign that he's lost. With the constant talk about Ren needing his father and Han was the one to bring him back, I don't see Leia being the Luke in this situation.
Vadar had no one for decades. Then had a son all of the sudden to fight for him. And a daughter he never knew about until the end. Ren had all of the support he could get from the beginning. Luke as a mentor, Han as a father, Leia as a mother and potentially a sister or cousin in Rey or some connection there they haven't revealed yet. Having all of that support, he was still able to give into the dark side, turn his back and even force Luke into hiding. His family strength to bring him back is gone. It didn't work. Vadar never had that until Ep V and Luke in a way slowly chipped away at him bringing him back.
Wow. You have a lot of reading to do if you don't GET or BUY that scene.
In OT we have 3 of the most powerful force users of their time (Vader, Yoda, Obi-Wan), We see that Jedi are powerful and all kinds of stuff. When we get to the PT we have 10k Jedi and we think man they must all be as powerful as Obi was but there are plenty of levels in jedi skill just like everything else. Plenty of Jedi were just plain assassinated by a blaster. IMO, nothing is taken away by realizing that these various levels of "jediness" are there and add to the story.
Zombie_61
Master Member
I agree. As much as I like Christopher Lee, I think Dooku was a wasted character in the Prequel movies--he didn't do much, and wasn't particularly effective as a "villain"; the same could be said of Grievous. Maul should have been Sidious' #2 throughout the Prequel Trilogy, and should finally have been eliminated by Obi-Wan in Episode III.
Of course, if Lucas had written the story that way fans would have whined about Maul being the Darth Vader of the Prequel Trilogy. :rolleyes
At one point it was confirmed that Grievous was only introduced as a character so that more toys could be produced. I think that it was heavily connected to the chase on Utapau. I mean, cart wheel, space ship, Obi Wans lizard ...
cayman shen
Master Member
Oh no, you DID NOT just call out the lizard! RIP Boga *sniff*
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
It does beg to ask whether Kylo would have stood trial for his actions had he tossed his hands in the air and said "OK, you're right, Dad. Golly gee, I guess I'll come home". I really don't think life would have just gotten back to normal.
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Tan Djarka
Master Member
I'm going to get TFA today and was wondering: Who has the best version? I'm only talking about content and not packaging or extras like collectible cards or whatever,
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