Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

[Prop Collector]

The fatal flaw in the film is the power of the First Order. They should have made the First Order a group led by Snoke which attacks the Republic and plays with the moral idea of the difference between terrorist and freedom fighter. In my ideal version of the film, Kylo leads an attack to the Republic's base and kills Han in a massive Republic structure - demonstrating the scale of the new Republic. Phasma could have also been used better in this alternate story as she could have stolen some kind of plan from the base. It's a similar story, but it flips it around.

The First Order is too big and too powerful and should not have been able to build another Death Star in a world where the Rebellion won at the end of ROTJ. JJ is obsessed with callbacks, homages and COPIES. One of the most unoriginal directors out there.

A few other things that annoyed me were Rey's instant control over the force, Leia's sidelining, and the stupid Rathtar scene. The soundtrack was shockingly awful as well.

Overall I thought the film was okay. Not nearly as good as the reviewers and general moviegoers (who are ostensibly nowhere near as invested in the franchise as I am) would have one believe. I'd give it 7/10.

 

[glunark]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

Kylo Ren's ability to hold a blaster bold in mid air does not make him more powerful than Vader, it just means he knows a trick we haven't seen before, for all we know Vader might have been able to do that too, but considered it too showy.

I mean if you are trying to intimidate an enemy, what looks better, stopping a blaster bolt in mid air, or just absorbing it in the palm of your hand?

 

[annanake]

After star killer base where can they go from there two star killers with a death star taped to it?

 

[ghostryder]

A weird part of me deep down wonders if she is a Kenobi. Obi-wan's niece or grand daughter? I could see the "poetry" of having a Skywalker train a Kenobi.

Since Rey being Luke's daughter is such an easy assumption, I feel like the Kenobi angle might be more of an interesting reveal. Obi-Wan watched over Luke for what, 20 years on Tatooine - who knows what randy shenanigans he got up to in all that time...

The opening scene of Episode 8:

EXT. MOUNTAINTOP - DAY

Luke stares at the lightsaber in Ray's outstretched hand.

LUKE
This isn't the first time a Kenobi
presented me with a lightsaber.

 

[brandomack]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

I haven't seen it yet, but thanks everyone for their honesty. I'll wait for Netflix next year.

 

[annanake]

That would put rey in her 30's 40's too.
Niece maybe
a brother or sister of Kenobi who left her when they realized she was force sensitive sand they did not want to turn out like uncle Owen so they took her somewhere they thought she might never be found could be

 

[annanake]

Probably another force baby just to erk us

 

[Tom1971]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

Kylo Ren's ability to hold a blaster bold in mid air does not make him more powerful than Vader, it just means he knows a trick we haven't seen before, for all we know Vader might have been able to do that too, but considered it too showy.

I mean if you are trying to intimidate an enemy, what looks better, stopping a blaster bolt in mid air, or just absorbing it in the palm of your hand?

That is true. I should re-state. He looked like he was going to be very powerful. Maybe even more powerful than Luke or Vader before he was revealed to be Darth Punkbitch.



Tom

 

[niennumb1]

After having seen the movie, I began envisioning what a disaster reveal of a trailer this could have been like many typical movie trailers these days that give away so much.

Could you just see a snippet in there showing Han talking to Leia about their son and then cutting to Kylo going crazy? So many trailers would have just given key plot points away. I have to give Abrams and crew mad props for creating great trailers that did enough to entice, yet give away absolutely nothing. That's the way selling a film SHOULD be done.

 

[AJTaliesen]

Should probably merge the threads.

Anyway...decided to give this a second viewing.

Mostly holds up on repeat viewing. Better than JJtrek did, which falls apart on repeat viewings. Overall I still like it. First some big positives:

the acting: For all the flak I've thrown at JJ over Trek...I do think that he gets good performances out of his actors. No exception here. I thought everyone did really well. Good casting too.

Looks: just a really good looking movie in my opinion. I really like the look. The 3d seemed really well done too.

(side note with a question: is it my imagination or in the first Ren scene when he freezes the blast in mid air...when he lets it go...did it change directions from where it was originally going? He shot at Ren from the side...then when it unfreezes is hits the pole in the town center.)



But...a few holes still didn't work.

The map: others tried to rationalize this a bit in the other thread. Still doesn't stack up. Watching it again the piece BB had was a huge chunk of the galaxy. It's a weak point and and huge reach. There's just no way they wouldn't be able to place a piece that big. Should've been a MUCH smaller piece. Plain and simple.


The Ren/Rey fight: On second viewing I realized that it's not her beating him that bothers me...he IS badly injured and she does have some fighting skills. It's just that the switch, from when he's kicking her ass to her closing her eyes and remembering that the force is a thing and suddenly dominating him...it's a really long awkward pause and more than a little cliche. Like I almost expected to hear some Rocky music and See Tony Burton pop out from behind a tree saying "You cut him! You hurt him! He's not a machine! He's a man!"

It's just an awkward moment to get past. Just too long a pause...like it only just now occurred to her that she can win by swinging the weapon she's been holding. I feel like the scene would've been stronger without that, and just have her start to win. He IS injured.


One that someone else mentioned: When they get back after blowing up the new Death Star...Han is dead...and Leia doesn't even glance at Chewy...he walks RIGHT by her too. She just goes to Rey and comforts her. That's weird.

It's even weirder the second time when you realize: this is the first time they are even meeting. Leia didn't show up till after Rey was captured and this is her return from being rescued so...as far as Leia knows: this is just the friend that Finn was talking about. Makes it a VERY odd choice that she doesn't even acknowledge Chewy and instead goes to hug stranger who she heard about once. Even if it turns out that she's really Luke daughter...how the hell would Leia know that? She's been on New-Tattoine since she was a little girl.


Also: I assume we'll find out a lot more about this later, but who the F is Snoke? Last we knew Palpatine was dead, Vader was dead...according to the crappy prequels there's only ever two, for narrative convenience...which means that after ROTJ, Luke is the only game in town. So where does this other dude come from who somehow managed to become so powerful in the force that he was able to convince Luke's apprentice that he was a bigger badass? That feels like it's going to be a big hill to climb over. Unless they decide that the prequels aren't canon and that there can be more than two...and Palpatine had another apprentice on the side. Frankly, I'd actually be more than OK with that.


Having said all that though...I DID enjoy it. For me, I liked it better than the prequels, by a lot. Good acting. Good effects. paced well enough to keep me interested all the way through even on second viewing in as many days.

Pleasantly surprised.

 

[glunark]

The map bit only makes sense if the part Luke was hiding in is in an uncharted area of the galaxy, which would make the most sense for someone who didn't want to be found to hide in.

Even if they knew which part of the galaxy the uncharted area was, the map itself would be useless without knowing where the entry point was.

 

[manooga]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

I couldn't agree more with the original post on this thread. Weak new characters, non-sense OT characters' role, a super cool new chromed stormtrooper that literally does nothing to deserve her position, a soundtrack that does not transmit the emotions of all previous movies (even the prequel had a super awesome soundtrack that tells you what to feel on each scene). Bad, bad, really bad movie.

There's no imagination on it. It's like Disney took Lucas' Star Wars and said: "let's re do it exactly the same! Hopefully we will have the same success as he did!"

Lucas was the brain behind the story. Complex and confusing stories, many things happening at the same time in different parts of the Galaxy, a lot of imagination. Nothing of that was here.

What happened to the A wings and Y wings?? Why centering on a pilot that miracously survives a tie fighter crash and gets lost in the sand, and then appears again out of nowhere, to be just a new "Wedge" doing nothing but flying his x Wing?

What happened to the great lightsaber duels?

Really disappointed. I think they have killed Star Wars. As for me, I stay with Lucas' Star Wars. Everything was over when Disney bought it. I will keep my OT props. Those are the good movies.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

Not to mention that we have seen more imaginative star maps in films like Titan A.E.

 

[Jaitea]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

"No, there is another." Who do you think Yoda was talkin bout???

When ESB was written and "The other hope" was mentioned, a new character was in mind, Luke's twin sister,...not Leia....thats why it was perfectly OK for the love triangle of Leia Han & Luke,.....but as we all know Lucas likes to fudge things

Gary Kurtz said in an interview:
She’s not his sister. That dropped in to wrap up everything neatly. His sister was someone else way over on the other side of the galaxy and she wasn’t going to show up until the next episode.

Another part of the article:

So at the time of “Empire,” Lucas intended to make future films with Luke, just as Kurtz said. But then Lucas stopped at “Return of the Jedi.” Kurtz said Luke was going to meet his twin in the new trilogy. If that’s true and Lucas decided NOT to produce a new trilogy, then it makes sense for him to have Leia revealed as the twin in “Return of the Jedi,” as it allows him to wrap up his intended plot for Luke/Leia.

Yes, in “Empire,” Luke speaks to Leia through his mind, which later is part of their connection as siblings, but I think that’s more of a retroactive element where Lucas said, “Hey, we had Luka talk to Leia through her mind – why not have THEM be twins?” As it also neatly wraps up the love triangle that Lucas was clearly intending on wrapping up no matter what.

Kurtz articles here....& here

& the scramble to finish the Star Wars Trilogy here

ROTJ was the start of Lucas's lazy storytelling,....no-one to question his decisions

J

 

[Jaitea]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

Its also interesting that in one of the Kurtz interviews he mentions Han's death in an early draft of ROTJ:

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it,” Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”
The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leiagrappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

So really TFA puts everything back on the original course....just 30 years passes in between

J

 

[AJTaliesen]

The map bit only makes sense if the part Luke was hiding in is in an uncharted area of the galaxy, which would make the most sense for someone who didn't want to be found to hide in.

Even if they knew which part of the galaxy the uncharted area was, the map itself would be useless without knowing where the entry point was.

the idea that there are many uncharted systems is totally plausible. The problem is the visual: when they put the piece they had with all the missing pieces it doesn't simply connect it to a known system, it places it within the entire galaxy, shown in the map. Thats a HUGE chunk of the galaxy that no ones ever been to, considering they've had the ability to traverse this galaxy for hundreds of years.

It's not that the idea of a map or a hidden system is far fetched: not at all. It's completely plausible. They just got the visual very very wrong. The scale is WAY off and it becomes totally implausible not to be able to place a chunk THAT big.

Think of it like a puzzle. If you have one small piece...maybe you DONT know where it goes. but if you have a huge chunk like that...yeah...you pretty much know what part of the puzzle it fits in. They made it too big in relation to the rest of the galaxy (or else the finished map should've only been a portion, and not the whole galaxy like it was). It's not a writing error, it's an art dept. error. The visual scale is way off.

 

[Brevin Din-Shay]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

Really disappointed. I think they have killed Star Wars. As for me, I stay with Lucas' Star Wars. Everything was over when Disney bought it. I will keep my OT props. Those are the good movies.

HAHAHA....And just 13 years ago, about 98% of the populace here said the total opposite. "GL ruined my childhood," so on.

It's impossible to please everyone, especially here.

 

[Brevin Din-Shay]

It was a good enough map for a few seconds of "Driving Miss Daisy."

 

[TheEternal]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

Personally I enjoyed it. However I do agree with the issues that have been raised here! Kylo's reveal was way to early and as a result lost almost all the suspense. Also Rey became way to capable in the force way to quickly! Captain phasma is the most pointless character I think we've met in the stars universe so far, being relegated to at plot device.
I didn't have as high as expectations as some maybe because I haven't seen any of the trailers except the first comic con one.

 

[gonk27]

Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome

Kylo Ren's ability to hold a blaster bold in mid air does not make him more powerful than Vader, it just means he knows a trick we haven't seen before, for all we know Vader might have been able to do that too, but considered it too showy.

I mean if you are trying to intimidate an enemy, what looks better, stopping a blaster bolt in mid air, or just absorbing it in the palm of your hand?

Agreed. Vader can deflect blaster bolts so he could probably halt them in mid air too.

That was a very cool effect and I loved seeing that in TFA, I'm sure the only reason we never saw Vader doing it was that the idea never occurred to Lucas at the time. It would have looked very cool to see Han's red blaster bolt hovering over the table in the Bespin dining room!