Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

[Kit Rae]

When someone can't just stop a YouTube video and move on, and needs to go online to post about their reasons for stopping that video, it's actually them that's *whiny ranting*.

No, just a post for the few here that may not want to waste time watching a long youtube rant about the obvious ep IV to ep VII similarities rather than what the youtube title said it was about. The "it's a rehash of ep IV" has already been discussed here. I stopped about 9 minutes in, so if that point was made later, and someone does not mind the boring wait, watch away

Move along.

 

[Bryancd]

Ok, so I am sitting waiting for a 9:10am matinee at the Cine Capri in Scottsdale for my second viewing. It's a very large, large format screen theater, and there are almost 100 people here.

 

[CutThumb]

As a starting argument there is simply no way in this galaxy or any other that this film is any WORSE than the prequels. Just NO!
The story has its weaknesses no doubt about it, BUT its strengths far surpass them by a more than fair distance. The critical issue for me was that I enjoyed it, as equally as I did Jurassic World and Fury Road. Both of those films that had terrible flaws in story logic as equally as great as TFA but they succeeded as it does because the heart of each film and its characters WAS AS TRUE TO ITSELF as to that of its predecessor (if perhaps not the story logic, all the time).
The issue was ,as a film and a reintroduction did it get the job done? They had already decided to try and broaden its appeal to everyone, and they did so by focusing on the elements that needed updating, perhaps more so than just the VFX. And for the bulk of audiences that have seen it , just as with JW, they really have enjoyed the return trip to a franchise that was effectively finished and forgotten.Now look at it and tell me as a SW fan ,even if you hate THIS film you don't have some hope for all the others to come?
I feel they have sensibly left the harder parts of the story that needed a better and a more considered approach, for the second and third films and I HOPE Rhian Johnson will do that ,just as he did with both "Brick" and "Looper" who dealt with their anti heroes,villians and side players in very clever ways . But no matter what he does there will still be many similarities to the previous SEVEN films because thats the SW universe.
So Luke will be another older mentor because he is over sixty years old. The FO will have a fleet of Star Destroyers because thats what you need to fight a war in space, just as we have planes in the air, tanks on the ground , ships on the ocean and soldiers fighting hand to hand on the battle field.So I wish people who dislike this film realise that there will never be another film quite like ANH,TESB or even ROTJ. Because you will never again be that person BEFORE you watched them.
I think I'll take a break from these kind of threads this coming year. I enjoyed them ,particularly the TFA threads and some people made some valuable contirbutions to them but ultimately as I get older I'm finding that they change absolutely nothing for me about the films I've seen or will go to see.
Time to build some more props and models.Have a great New Year everyone and keep going to the cinema.


PS " The Making of TFA" is out mid October 2016. Which is probably also the main reason. Because then we'll really understand why we got the film that we did. But that isn't going to change whether you liked it or not the first time you saw it.

 

[joshvanrad]

Ok, so I am sitting waiting for a 9:10am matinee at the Cine Capri in Scottsdale for my second viewing. It's a very large, large format screen theater, and there are almost 100 people here.

I went last night after work and all of the showings at the theater I was at only had front row seating or were sold out.

 

[seelsa73]

I think most people would say you are being silly.

There are many here who have a lot silly complaints about the movie, surely I'm allowed one.

i suspect what you are hearing is the difference between oldschool analog tape and the digital way it's done now.

Could be...still a bit jarring. There must be ways they could have used for 3PO to simulate analogue tape if that was the case, though.

 

[Bigdaddy]

People please, lets not devolve into this: http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem by calling into question each others "devoutness" of fandom. :lol We can have a meaningful discussion about this fictional universe with being butt-hurt.

On another note: Anybody else looking forward to Yoda's 2nd cousin showing up and wielding a tiny double bladed lightsaber?

 

[niennumb1]

I am behind a few pages, but never amazes me how everything goes from excitement to ripping everything apart.

"I loved it, but...." and the 'but' list starts to get incredibly long until you suddenly realized you hated it and then attack other people who loved it because you ran out of things to hate about.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[crabra comander]

Damn, worse than the prequels...damn...I can agree with some of the complaints about the movie. But that, just begs the question: Do you legitimately believe that or did you post it just to cause a massive Force disturbance greater than the planet Alderran and Chandrila's destruction combined?

 

[kristen jones]

A co-worker without any prompting on my part remarked it was so much like the original he knew what was going to happen.
Thought it was just ok. He was a younger person too, not a jaded ol SOB like me.

If they had just had a little courage.

If if if.

IF they had had a little courage... then everyone would be whining about how it's "nothing like the Star Wars I remember" or "Too far removed from the source material" or blah blah blah...

Nitpickers will NEVER be happy. JJ wanted us to have a comfortable and familiar bridge story to introduce the new characters and story arcs--to give us closure on the old so in a place that felt like home so that we could make an easy connection between that and what is to come.

(I'm pretty sure most of us secretly wanted that, too.)

 

[kristen jones]

Really?

Yes, REALLY... to everything I said. You obviously don't care much for the film, and that's fine. Don't waste your breath trying to convince those of us who do like it that we're wrong. we aren't wrong, and neither are you. It is a matter of OPINION... which clearly differs in this case between yourself and I, so let's leave it at that.

- - - Updated - - -

Around the five minute mark he summarizes why TFA is a story clone. Sorry you couldn't take any more of the precise analysis.

Maybe should have just said that, then. Brevity is the essence of wit.

 

[kristen jones]

The first weeks of release had a built-in audience of SW fanboy/fangirl easy-lays/repeat viewers, and kids demanding their parents take them to TFA. This has brought in a box office haul somewhat better than "The Phantom Menace" from 16 years ago (adjusted for inflation).

I'm not usually one to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but I will here. EASY LAYS? REALLY? (to use your phraseology) obviously you are enamoured of having an overly contemptuous attitude toward moviegoers.

If you care at all about having a civilized discourse, you might want to choose your words more carefully in future.

Just a suggestion.

 

[Solo4114]

I get the criticisms about how similar it is to ANH. Before release, when I saw yet another desert planet, I thought "Oh god, not Tatooine again! Can we PLEASE do something NEW?!" The thing is, I think this film was a mix of new and old, and sets the stage for a LOT of potential new stuff. That's why I (and I suspect others) are referring to it as a "bridge" film.

Now, it remains to be seen whether they'll act on this potential and really develop things further in new directions, but I think there's a good likelihood that they will. There will always be some sense of familiarity with the previous films, including certain story beats (e.g. young light side users confronting more experienced dark side users, family drama, etc.), but the mere fact that we see similar story beats doesn't mean the entire film is a giant rehash.

I guess, as I've said, while I can see the criticisms of the retreading on old ground, I'd say try to view it with optimism rather than cynicism. This wasn't the "perfect" Star Wars sequel, but (in my opinion) it was pretty damn good and shows signs of future brilliance. Will that be realized? It remains to be seen, but I'm ok with giving them the benefit of the doubt. I think there's a lot to enjoy about TFA if you're willing to let go some criticisms, and far more than there was with the PT. And hell, if we could all survive the PT era, even the most negative among us, then I think the ST era will be much more enjoyable.

 

[kristen jones]

Amen, Dan. :thumbsup

 

[Wolfsburg]

I get the criticisms about how similar it is to ANH. Before release, when I saw yet another desert planet, I thought "Oh god, not Tatooine again! Can we PLEASE do something NEW?!" The thing is, I think this film was a mix of new and old, and sets the stage for a LOT of potential new stuff. That's why I (and I suspect others) are referring to it as a "bridge" film.

Now, it remains to be seen whether they'll act on this potential and really develop things further in new directions, but I think there's a good likelihood that they will. There will always be some sense of familiarity with the previous films, including certain story beats (e.g. young light side users confronting more experienced dark side users, family drama, etc.), but the mere fact that we see similar story beats doesn't mean the entire film is a giant rehash.

I guess, as I've said, while I can see the criticisms of the retreading on old ground, I'd say try to view it with optimism rather than cynicism. This wasn't the "perfect" Star Wars sequel, but (in my opinion) it was pretty damn good and shows signs of future brilliance. Will that be realized? It remains to be seen, but I'm ok with giving them the benefit of the doubt. I think there's a lot to enjoy about TFA if you're willing to let go some criticisms, and far more than there was with the PT. And hell, if we could all survive the PT era, even the most negative among us, then I think the ST era will be much more enjoyable.

This echoes a lot of what I think about it. TFA has its faults but most of my criticisms don't amount to much more than nitpicking. For someone to suggest it's worse than the PT is absolutely laughable.

 

[The Wook]

Maybe should have just said that, then. Brevity is the essence of wit.

Forgive my pedantry, kristen, but I think you meant to type, "Brevity is the soul of wit.".

The Wook

 

[kristen jones]

I suppose either gets the point across, but I had heard the quote from Brian Eno when speaking to The Edge and Bono of U2 in the early eighties whilst recording the Unforgettable Fire album. They were discussing an edit of "Pride (In the name of Love) and Brian Eno remarked that it should be shorter, and offered: "Brevity is the essence of wit". :thumbsup

 

[The Wook]

I suppose either gets the point across, but I had heard the quote from Brian Eno when speaking to The Edge and Bono of U2 in the early eighties whilst recording the Unforgettable Fire album. They were discussing an edit of "Pride (In the name of Love) and Brian Eno remarked that it should be shorter, and offered: "Brevity is the essence of wit". :thumbsup

Then I stand corrected. I did not know you were quoting Eno instead of Shakespeare.

The Wook

 

[Solo4114]

This echoes a lot of what I think about it. TFA has its faults but most of my criticisms don't amount to much more than nitpicking. For someone to suggest it's worse than the PT is absolutely laughable.

Oh, I'm not even getting into that. I mean, it's obvious hyperbole. You might as well just swap out "worse than the PT" and swap in "THE WORST FILM EVAR!!!!!!111!!!!" It carries the same weight.

I was thinking about the film the other day, and it occurred to me that it is probably impossible to make a film that is (a) wholly original, (b) uses the old cast, and (c) sets the stage for a new cast to take the reins. I mean, maybe it's doable, but it probably wouldn't be successful, and probably wouldn't have anywhere near the broad appeal that this film seems to have.

Initially, I thought the best way to handle Star Wars sequels is to hurl the story, like, 200-300 years into the future. Completely sever it from the OT era, dodge the EU altogether, and tell a completely new story in the same universe with new characters. Kinda like how the KOTOR games worked, but in the future.

Realistically, though, that movie would be a financial disaster because people would just think it looks like a generic scifi film with "Star Wars" slapped on top. And other casual fans would be saying "Where are Luke and Leia? I don't get it. This isn't Star Wars!" You really needed the old cast to show up and hand off the franchise to the new cast. After that, you could push the stories further away from the OT.

This film, to effectively relaunch the franchise, needed to be simultaneously familiar and different, and that's a REALLY hard line to walk from a storytelling perspective. So, I cut them some slack for treading on familiar ground. What I really hope to see, though, is that future films will explore far more of the Star Wars universe. In the meantime, familiar though the beats in this movie were, I thought it was quite well handled, and was extremely entertaining. And I say that as someone who's absolute favorite character of all time in the Star Wars universe is Han Solo. I say that as someone who watched his childhood hero die. I think there's a ton of potential, and we're likely to see a gradual move away from the OT beats. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if this sequel trilogy still has familiar beats even in its concluding episode. But that's kind of the nature of these stories. You KNOW Rey is going to confront Snoke at some point. It is also very likely that Kylo Ren will destroy Snoke. So, will it be a rehash of ROTJ? To some degree, probably. But that's heroic myth for ya. I also expect it will be decidedly different in other ways.

The thing is, Disney/LFL wants this to be a BIG franchise, and knows that it can be. Like, on the order of Marvel's stuff. TV shows on both network and streaming services. Films that are offshoots from the core episode stories. Comics. Toys. Cartoons. They want this to be a success, and that's not going to happen if they tell crappy stories in their core material. So, I think it's better to approach this stuff with guarded optimism. Might they drop the ball? Sure. I mean, I thought Age of Ultron was nowhere near as good as it could've been. On the other hand, I loved Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy. I'm really loving Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter, and Daredevil. I've yet to watch Jessica Jones, but I've heard nothing but good things. If the newly relaunched Star Wars franchise can do what Marvel's stuff has done, we will be reaping the bounty for decades to come.

 

[joshvanrad]

Dan: The Often Long-Winded, Always Voice-Of-Reason

 

[niennumb1]

I get the criticisms about how similar it is to ANH. Before release, when I saw yet another desert planet, I thought "Oh god, not Tatooine again! Can we PLEASE do something NEW?!" The thing is, I think this film was a mix of new and old, and sets the stage for a LOT of potential new stuff. That's why I (and I suspect others) are referring to it as a "bridge" film.

And regarding something truly "New".... Just how many climatic weather conditions and vegetation can you create out there? I suppose people are expecting a planet that will go through extreme cold, rain, drought, and swamp at the same time?

Surely Tatooine isn't the only desert planet in the galaxy. You're going to have variances of structures and life that is different from one place to another, but you can't expect every planet is going to have wildly different appearances every single time.

Nothing against you or targeting what you said to refute. I was just adding to the point you stated on Tatooine.


OH... And the whole Death Star explosion similarity thing people claim.... Upon second viewing (sorry, the first time there was a lot going on to pay attention to every detail). It doesn't appear that the resistance really blew up the planet. What it looked like to me is they dismantled that spot to knock the weapon out of commission, but in doing so, looks like it caused an immense planetary instability from the inside that prevented the power from the sun to maintain itself, and so the planet became too volatile and eventually imploded, leaving the core of it remaining, which was only the ball of energy from the power of the sun intact. Nature took back what the technology tried taking away.

I thought that was very interesting and different from what I had seen before.