Star Wars Tales of The Jedi animated series?

[Joek3rr]

Dooku was already fallen by the time we meet him in AOTC. It's clearly an act that he's some political idealist and his attempt to recruit Obi-Wan was only half sincere. The second he meets Sidious at the end it puts an end to any speculation. As if there ever was any.

This is one of the areas that I always had a problem with, even when I was a Prequel apologist. The Jedi are written as total morons. They can see what's happening right in front of them to the point where Palpatine has to literally come right out and tell Anakin he's a Sith. And the worst part is that Anakin and the rest of the order are shocked. Really??

For an order that prides itself on being able to see the future, having the lame excuse that the dark side clouding their vision is just weak writing and they should have sensed his ambition right out of the gate. Sidious wasn't exactly hiding it all that well.

Dooku still had potential though and I do like the idea that he was disillusioned with the Jedi order and wanted to stem the corruption in the Senate. In fact it would have been far more interesting if his intention had nothing to do with the Sith and somehow got falsely accused through Palpatines manipulations. He could have been a tragic figure in the process.

I think George's intent was to write the Jedi as being blinded by their hubris as well as the dark side. But instead it just across as the Jedi being really dense.

And now add Dooku showing that his slipping towards the dark side way before? Really makes Mace look stupid. I've felt that Dooku didn't turn to the dark side until after he left the Jedi. So when Ki Adi Mundi says "He's a political idealist not a murderer." They're being truthful. They don't know he's turned.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

He has a unique saber. "I'm coo-coo for Dooku props!"

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Dooku was already fallen by the time we meet him in AOTC. It's clearly an act that he's some political idealist and his attempt to recruit Obi-Wan was only half sincere. The second he meets Sidious at the end it puts an end to any speculation. As if there ever was any.

This is one of the areas that I always had a problem with, even when I was a Prequel apologist. The Jedi are written as total morons. They can see what's happening right in front of them to the point where Palpatine has to literally come right out and tell Anakin he's a Sith. And the worst part is that Anakin and the rest of the order are shocked. Really??

For an order that prides itself on being able to see the future, having the lame excuse that the dark side clouding their vision is just weak writing and they should have sensed his ambition right out of the gate. Sidious wasn't exactly hiding it all that well.

Dooku still had potential though and I do like the idea that he was disillusioned with the Jedi order and wanted to stem the corruption in the Senate. In fact it would have been far more interesting if his intention had nothing to do with the Sith and somehow got falsely accused through Palpatines manipulations. He could have been a tragic figure in the process.

The entire world shrugged and hoped for the best when Hitler came to power. Then he started invading countries and people were like "Maybe he'll be happy and stop with those couple?" Don't underestimate people just not wanting to rock the boat and then ignore things, that in hindsight are very clear.

 

[Master Boda]

True. But within the context. We're supposed to be wondering about Luke. He's dressed in black. He's doing something we've only seen Vader doing. And if we recall Yoda's words. Luke started down the dark path when he quit his training.

In the old days Force choke was a neutral,it was the actions of the user that made it light/dark.

 

[Master Boda]

This is one of the areas that I always had a problem with, even when I was a Prequel apologist. The Jedi are written as total morons. They can see what's happening right in front of them to the point where Palpatine has to literally come right out and tell Anakin he's a Sith. And the worst part is that Anakin and the rest of the order are shocked. Really??

For an order that prides itself on being able to see the future, having the lame excuse that the dark side clouding their vision is just weak writing and they should have sensed his ambition right out of the gate. Sidious wasn't exactly hiding it all that well.

Dooku still had potential though and I do like the idea that he was disillusioned with the Jedi order and wanted to stem the corruption in the Senate. In fact it would have been far more interesting if his intention had nothing to do with the Sith and somehow got falsely accused through Palpatines manipulations. He could have been a tragic figure in the process.

Your honor,I would like to make my case as to why the Jedi were not morons.In AOTC when OWK is at the diner to ask Dexter about the dart that killed Zam,Dex teases OBW about the Jedi using droids.Later OWK goes to the library to look for Kamino,the librarian assures him that “If it is not in the archive it does not exist.Master Yoda is consulted about the missing planet,it turns out the librarian was wrong. What we have here is a case of complicit arrogance due to pride,that’s why the Jedi are blind.I rest my case your honor.
I don’t think Sidious get‘s the respect he deserves,he was Mr.Hyde that acted liked the Doctor.He used the corrupt system of the senate,and dogma of the Jedi against them.Darth Sidious is the very definition of Trojan horse.

 

[Master Boda]

Yeah; if something is clouding your vision, then you should be doubly on guard for that! Since the Sith are the foremost Dork Side users that they know of, the first thing the Jedi should be doing is trying to determine who they are and what they are up to!

"Where there is smoke...there is fire."

I mean, do they really need a playbill written for them to connect the fact that Maul and Dooku must have had a master directing their moves?

You think that’s bad,imagine a world where fire is the victim and it’s all smokes fault.

 

[Master Boda]

I think George's intent was to write the Jedi as being blinded by their hubris as well as the dark side. But instead it just across as the Jedi being really dense.

And now add Dooku showing that his slipping towards the dark side way before? Really makes Mace look stupid. I've felt that Dooku didn't turn to the dark side until after he left the Jedi. So when Ki Adi Mundi says "He's a political idealist not a murderer." They're being truthful. They don't know he's turned.

Pride and arrogance can do a number on what one thinks they know.

 

[Joek3rr]

In the old days Force choke was a neutral,it was the actions of the user that made it light/dark.

I'm gonna disagree on that. A Jedi using Force to choke someone goes against everything Yoda teaches Luke in ESB. Not saying there aren't Jedi who can't do it, or haven't. But it's definitely a dark side act.

 

[Master Boda]

I'm gonna disagree on that. A Jedi using Force to choke someone goes against everything Yoda teaches Luke in ESB. Not saying there aren't Jedi who can't do it, or haven't. But it's definitely a dark side act.

In the old days it was called Force grip from the video games stating the enemy could be immobilized but not hurt. I guess that definition goes out the window in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars as Mace left Grievous with a nasty cough after using it.

 

[Ron]

I never interpreted it as a dark side act any more than I consider a mind trick to be one. It's all about the context. Vader using it on an Imperial officer to put him in his place is dark but Luke using it for a moment to incapacitate a couple of physically imposing guards that were about to impede him from saving his friend was probably the most passive thing he could do.

Lightning on the hand, I would say is a dark side power as it seems to only inflict pain. Then again maybe a Jedi could use it to recharge a lightsaber or something. Maybe jumpstart a landspeeder lol.

 

[Joek3rr]

In the old days it was called Force grip from the video games stating the enemy could be immobilized but not hurt. I guess that definition goes out the window in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars as Mace left Grievous with a nasty cough after using it.

In most of the EU, Force grip, was separate. With Force choke being a derivative.

But in games like Dark Forces II and Jedi Academy, Force grip sits on the dark side skills. In Jedi Outcast they don't separate the Force abilities but it's description doesn't leave any doubt in what it is doing. "Allows Jedi to choke or constrict the organs of a living being." However that being said, "Rank 1" Force Grip is different. "Affected enemy is gripped and held undamaged, but immobile for 5 seconds. Jedi must remain stationary." The Force Unleashed allows you to use Force grip without choking. With the ability to fling your enemies with abandon, smashing them into walls to kill them. So it's probably not a light side maneuver.

With that all said, we shouldn't take game mechanics too seriously when it comes to the Force. Games take liberties for the sake of fun. They don't accurately represent the nature of the Force.

 

[Halliwax]

Dooku always struck me as a Sith similar to Vader, he fell the the Dark Side with good intentions that became corrupted. In this case, Dooku firmly believed he could destroy the Sith from within. I think Dooku believed that if he amassed enough power and a large enough army that he could eventually take out Sidious and bring peace to the Galaxy. I don't think Dooku took thrill in killing Jedi like Sidious did. He did give Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda chances to either back off or surrender numerous times in both AotC and RotS. Sidious would have never given Jedi such mercy.

You know.. I never really looked at it like that. I really like this concept

 

[Joek3rr]

I never interpreted it as a dark side act any more than I consider a mind trick to be one. It's all about the context. Vader using it on an Imperial officer to put him in his place is dark but Luke using it for a moment to incapacitate a couple of physically imposing guards that were about to impede him from saving his friend was probably the most passive thing he could do.

Lightning on the hand, I would say is a dark side power as it seems to only inflict pain. Then again maybe a Jedi could use it to recharge a lightsaber or something. Maybe jumpstart a landspeeder lol.

I'm going to say that runs contrary to what Yoda teaches.

"Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

"Vader... Is the dark side stronger?"

"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

"But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"

"You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack."

"But tell my why I can't..."

"No, no! There is no 'why'."

The Force can act like an extension of your will and emotions. Willing the Force to cause pain and bodily harm, constricting the throats and/or organs, of a living being, will be an act of the dark side. No matter the context. One would need to channel their hate of that being to will the Force to cause harm. I don't know if one could be emotionally detached enough to choke another, without the dark side. I'm not sure the Force would respond when called upon.

 

[Ron]

I'm going to say that runs contrary to what Yoda teaches.

"Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

"Vader... Is the dark side stronger?"

"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

"But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"

"You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack."

"But tell my why I can't..."

"No, no! There is no 'why'."

The Force can act like an extension of your will and emotions. Willing the Force to cause pain and bodily harm, constricting the throats and/or organs, of a living being, will be an act of the dark side. No matter the context. One would need to channel their hate of that being to will the Force to cause harm. I don't know if one could be emotionally detached enough to choke another, without the dark side. I'm not sure the Force would respond when called upon.

I'm not sure about that. You might be right. If we take the Luke example again, what would've been a "light side" tactic he could've used instead? Is mind-tricking more ethical? While painless, you're still imposing your will on someone. It could be considered morally questionable too. And is it aggression if you have no other option?

Concerning Yoda...again, just how I interpret it and I'm sure others see it differently. Anger, fear, aggression, (I'll add hate), are not in and of themselves evil things. I agree those emotions unchecked and misplaced can lead to the dark side but there are times when they are justified and even appropriate. There are times you should be angry, like at injustice for example. Irrational fear can cause us to act recklessly but, rational fear can prevent us from acting recklessly. There are times to hate. You should hate evil for example. That's not me saying that. That's the bible as I know you're aware. That's why I despise the phrase, "Hate begets hate." It's such peacenik foolishness. Sure, immoral hate might but not all hate is immoral.

I do agree with what Yoda is saying. He wants Luke to not let raw emotion dictate his decisions. I think his teaching benefits from the kind of nuance that is understandably hard to fit concisely into a 2 and a half hour movie.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I never interpreted it as a dark side act any more than I consider a mind trick to be one. It's all about the context. Vader using it on an Imperial officer to put him in his place is dark but Luke using it for a moment to incapacitate a couple of physically imposing guards that were about to impede him from saving his friend was probably the most passive thing he could do.

Lightning on the hand, I would say is a dark side power as it seems to only inflict pain. Then again maybe a Jedi could use it to recharge a lightsaber or something. Maybe jumpstart a landspeeder lol.

Since Luke uses Force choke, I'd have to say it depends on how it's used. In ROTJ it was obviously used to show that Luke was paralleling Vader, but Luke wasn't doing it to kill. I forgot what old EU book it was, but they mentioned someone using a mind trick and forcing someone to do something against their will, like drive of a cliff or shoot someone. That was the Dark Side. Just distracting someone isn't manipulating them in a malevolent way.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

Let's be honest, if we had force choke ability, we'd use it daily! Dude, I'd never lose another debate again! And I'm a good guy!

 

[Master Boda]

Let's be honest, if we had force choke ability, we'd use it daily! Dude, I'd never lose another debate again! And I'm a good guy!

“I find your lack of faith disturbing” would be my safeword.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

“I find your lack of faith disturbing” would be my safeword.

Definitely better than "Vader, release him."

 

[Halliwax]

Just another day in the Star Wars thread

 

[Joek3rr]

I'm not sure about that. You might be right. If we take the Luke example again, what would've been a "light side" tactic he could've used instead? Is mind-tricking more ethical? While painless, you're still imposing your will on someone. It could be considered morally questionable too. And is it aggression if you have no other option?

Mind tricks are pretty benign. As Sluis Van Shipyards mentioned there's a difference between a Jedi's mind trick. Which just simply touching the person's mind with the Force to make them susceptible to suggestion or misdirection. And dominating another's mind and forcing your will on them. Star Wars Rebels touches on this. How Ezra learns a more aggressive form of mind trick from a Sith Holocron.

Concerning Yoda...again, just how I interpret it and I'm sure others see it differently. Anger, fear, aggression, (I'll add hate), are not in and of themselves evil things. I agree those emotions unchecked and misplaced can lead to the dark side but there are times when they are justified and even appropriate. There are times you should be angry, like at injustice for example. Irrational fear can cause us to act recklessly but, rational fear can prevent us from acting recklessly. There are times to hate. You should hate evil for example. That's not me saying that. That's the bible as I know you're aware. That's why I despise the phrase, "Hate begets hate." It's such peacenik foolishness. Sure, immoral hate might but not all hate is immoral.

I do agree with what Yoda is saying. He wants Luke to not let raw emotion dictate his decisions. I think his teaching benefits from the kind of nuance that is understandably hard to fit concisely into a 2 and a half movie.

Yep. That's what balance is. Anger, fear, and hate are not wrong to have. When they control your decisions. When they control you, instead of you controlling them, that leads to the dark side. And like I say, that's what balance is. You have the dark side. You control it. Not the other way around. So that leads us to THE question. Can you Force choke someone without using your anger or hate? Will the Force respond? I don't know if it will. I tend to think, no. But maybe someone could. But that would be an awfully fine line to walk and it could potentially be dangerous.

However, returning to Dooku in these trailers, given the reaction we see from Qui-Gon and Mace, Dooku is letting his hate and anger control him. Or at least that's the impression I get.