STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

[astroboy]

That's a very good point. We know that in empire, he was simply toying with luke. And by jedi, he was full on conflicted.

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[JoMamma_Smurf]

What about Vaders broken neck???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oZNJru3F4c

 

[drcraig13]

What about Vaders broken neck???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oZNJru3F4c

Do you ever think some of us have to much time on our hands?

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

Regular people probably think that all the time..lol

 

[glunark]

If you are going to be freeze framing ROTJ, you are better off doing that just before Ola falls into the pit.

You know what I mean.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Many years ago, I actually remember seeing an analysis of Vader's injuries, based on what was seen during his electrocution in ROTJ, and they were far more severe than what was depicted in ROTS. The consensus was he was far more gone than just burns and the lower half of his extremities hacked off.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

What about Vaders broken neck???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oZNJru3F4c

Where is the broken neck at? Yes, I see mechanical structure there but it could be for the sake of better performance. If you look at wolverine in an X-Ray, doe we assume the metal is there because of Bo e repair?

Or it could simply be mechanism between the armor and the body which is more dense than other parts of the suit. If I walk through a metal detector at the airport,with my keys in my pocket, does TSA assume my pelvis has been broken and fixed by attacking keys?

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To be fair, Lucas played fast and loose with what this or that character was capable of. Yoda can flip around like a monkey on speed, but Obi-Wan could beat Vader in ANH? And Vader could otherwise hunt down the other jedi? What? Why?

Put simply, here's my advice:

Ignore everything that's come before, basically, except what you see in the films. Lucas' comments this way or that way are totally irrelevant, the moreso because he was frequently inconsistent with his own attitudes depending on when you asked him the question. There's this notion that Lucas has a single fixed vision of what his universe is, how it works, who the characters are, etc., and time has proven that notion to be false. Lucas' world is malleable depending on his whims in the moment. There are certain core things that stick around mostly, but he could wake up next Thursday and say "You know what? Jar Jar could've beaten him with sufficient Jedi training and an injection of Yoda's midichlorians mixed with Gungan fish juice."

So, ignore what the old EU said. Ignore what you saw in this or that comic. Ignore what Lucas said, and focus purely on what's seen in the films and on the show.

From my perspective, there is no reason why Vader couldn't be an absolute badass, and was beaten by Luke because he secretly wanted to be beaten (and also because Luke briefly tapped into the Dark Side when he flipped out in the throne room).

Doesnt matter if you ignore that Lucas said it or not, it's still a true statement. Prior to the prequels, we never saw a Jedi fight while in his prime.

 

[Solo4114]

Where is the broken neck at? Yes, I see mechanical structure there but it could be for the sake of better performance. If you look at wolverine in an X-Ray, doe we assume the metal is there because of Bo e repair?

Or it could simply be mechanism between the armor and the body which is more dense than other parts of the suit. If I walk through a metal detector at the airport,with my keys in my pocket, does TSA assume my pelvis has been broken and fixed by attacking keys?

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Doesnt matter if you ignore that Lucas said it or not, it's still a true statement. Prior to the prequels, we never saw a Jedi fight while in his prime.

That part's true, but my point is that doesn't speak to Vader's prowess one way or the other. We still basically have no idea what Vader's full combat capabilities are. We can guess, based on what we've seen, but in ESB it's pretty clear he's just messing with Luke until his shoulder gets hit and he puts Luke in his place. And in ROTJ, he's still trying to figure out how to turn Luke to the Dark Side. The only time we've seen him try to kill someone outright is with Obi-Wan on the Death Star, and that fight was far more about an economy of action and maintaining balance -- which would suit Obi-Wan's abilities at that point -- than it was about acrobatics.

I think the jury's still out on Vader's abilities. Does being mostly mechanical really slow him down? I don't see why it would. Luke's replacement hand worked just fine, after all. Age doesn't seem to be a factor based on Palpatine and Yoda's duel. Really, the only instance we have of an old man fighting past his prime is the Obi-Wan/Vader fight in ANH.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I agree that Vader's previous injuries and added technology is not a proven liability. My point was if you are going to be looking for a liability, age would be at the top of my list. He'd probably be in what... his late thirties, early forties in Rebels then by the end of the OT? I mean he is not an old man but I think he is outside of his prime. Which would also support the idea that the Emperor would not hesitate to replace him with Luke once turned due to Vader's best days now behind him.

 

[astroboy]

I think we're missing the point on this. As Yoda taught us, you can't judge someone's power by their size.

A good jedi lets the force guide then in battle. This is why the emporer, vader, and Yoda were the most powerful jedi ever.

Heck, Yoda was 900 years old

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[Riceball]

I agree that Vader's previous injuries and added technology is not a proven liability. My point was if you are going to be looking for a liability, age would be at the top of my list. He'd probably be in what... his late thirties, early forties in Rebels then by the end of the OT? I mean he is not an old man but I think he is outside of his prime. Which would also support the idea that the Emperor would not hesitate to replace him with Luke once turned due to Vader's best days now behind him.

I don't think that age factored into the Emperor's thinking as far as Luke vs. Vader was concerned, it seems to me that he was simply following the Sith philosophy of survival of the fittest. I don't think that he cared that much who won or lost, or more to say, whether Vader lost and Luke turned to the Dark Side, or Vader killed Luke, either way he would end up winning because he would end up getting the strongest fighter as his new right hand man.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I don't think that age factored into the Emperor's thinking as far as Luke vs. Vader was concerned, it seems to me that he was simply following the Sith philosophy of survival of the fittest. I don't think that he cared that much who won or lost, or more to say, whether Vader lost and Luke turned to the Dark Side, or Vader killed Luke, either way he would end up winning because he would end up getting the strongest fighter as his new right hand man.

I don't know. I think age along with the number of years Vader served did play a factor. The Emperor is pretty much like Donald Trump. Everything is fine with their significant other util they hit their 30's then they start eyeing the younger models. Also, Vader has been an apprentice for 20 plus years which means that the day that Vader attempts a coup gets closer every day. So the sooner you nib that in the bud, the better. After all, we all heard Vader's offer to Luke to rule the galaxy as father and son. So he has been thinking about it.

 

[drcraig13]

I know it's EU stuff but "Rise of Lord Vader" has Vader/Anakin thinking and talking to himself. It really shows him struggling with his new duel identity. But it also talks about his old mechanical prowess and how he is not happy with his suit and how he works on it and betters it in his pod. It also talks about how he has to improve it to deal with the remaining Jedi. I know it is technically in the EU that we see this but it's not a far assumption that he can still have these feelings.

 

[griffinx1]

I know it's EU stuff but "Rise of Lord Vader" has Vader/Anakin thinking and talking to himself. It really shows him struggling with his new duel identity. But it also talks about his old mechanical prowess and how he is not happy with his suit and how he works on it and betters it in his pod. It also talks about how he has to improve it to deal with the remaining Jedi. I know it is technically in the EU that we see this but it's not a far assumption that he can still have these feelings.

Yeah, I found that to be really insightful when I read the book. He lost his slick and fast Jedi fighting skills and became a pummeling death machine.

 

[Bryancd]

I agree that Vader's previous injuries and added technology is not a proven liability. My point was if you are going to be looking for a liability, age would be at the top of my list. He'd probably be in what... his late thirties, early forties in Rebels then by the end of the OT? I mean he is not an old man but I think he is outside of his prime. Which would also support the idea that the Emperor would not hesitate to replace him with Luke once turned due to Vader's best days now behind him.

I think we can also suggest his ability to command the Force is somewhat diminished by being less real living tissue. The Force is an energy field created by living being so it stands to reason that our living selves allows us to focus it's energies. Vader is maybe 50% human, so without his anger and rage he may not be a powerful in the Force as he was before the suit.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

We know it's a liability because the Emperor tries to replace Vader with Luke. If Vader was so great and powerful, why would he even bother with Luke? It's because Vader is not how the Emperor saw his apprentice. He's flawed. Oh and Vader can't even use Force lightning with mechanical arms. That's like the Sith's trademark.

 

[astroboy]

Jedi derive their power from their relationship from the force.

That supersedes any physical limitation they may have.



The reason that the vader/kenobi duel was so rudimentary is that it was the first lightsaber fight in the series the production team was simply new to it.

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[Halliwax]

i know im late, but ive always hated how lucas said obiwan and vader are old wash ups, thats why they lightsaber fighting wasnt that great. dooku was old and he could hang with obiwan and anikan when they were in their "prime" idk... never liked how he said that about vader being handicap and obiwan being old.. hell i think old obiwan was younger then dooku before dooku died..

 

[astroboy]

i know im late, but ive always hated how lucas said obiwan and vader are old wash ups, thats why they lightsaber fighting wasnt that great. dooku was old and he could hang with obiwan and anikan when they were in their "prime" idk... never liked how he said that about vader being handicap and obiwan being old.. hell i think old obiwan was younger then dooku before dooku died..

exactly.

 

[seelsa73]

It had nothing to do with the characters themselves and everything to do with the fact that Alec Guinness wasn't exactly in his prime. They couldn't exactly do what they did in the PT and use a stunt double in such close-up shooting and replace him in post. Lucas was just trying to justify what we saw due to the restrictions of the time. Sure, it was a lame explanation, but what else was he going to say?