STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

It makes him more interesting as well, as sort of a partial failure of Palpatines plans. The Vader comics and Lords of the Sith book is doing a great job fleshing out their relationship and how they feel about each other. And no Vader Force lightning in either with plenty from the Emperor, so it it seems Vader doesn't have the ability, is considered flawed, and that is canon.

Unless it's stated right out that Vader cannot use force lightning, it doesn't prove anything. Just because Vader does not use it, does not mean he is incapable. It would be like me saying you have a colostomy bag because I never saw you urinate.

Maybe he can't use Sith lightning and I am fine with that. I am simply saying that your conclusion based on the stated information is flawed.
 
Actually I believe Lucas said that about Vader and Force Lightning when he was answering questions for the The Force Unleashed game developers.

I just find it sad that people are so quick to dismiss the person who created the entire SW universe. If that's how the fans feel we're going to be getting a wildly screwy universe if Disney figures out fans feel like that. It's going to be another superhero universe with Jedi throwing buildings at each other, etc.
 
Unless it's stated right out that Vader cannot use force lightning, it doesn't prove anything. Just because Vader does not use it, does not mean he is incapable. It would be like me saying you have a colostomy bag because I never saw you urinate.

Maybe he can't use Sith lightning and I am fine with that. I am simply saying that your conclusion based on the stated information is flawed.

no it's a reasonable assumption.
 
The Lords of the Sith book is terrific and I am really liking the Vader comic. They do seem to strongly imply Vader is less then he could have been and the Emperor is constantly testing him.
 
Actually I believe Lucas said that about Vader and Force Lightning when he was answering questions for the The Force Unleashed game developers.

I just find it sad that people are so quick to dismiss the person who created the entire SW universe. If that's how the fans feel we're going to be getting a wildly screwy universe if Disney figures out fans feel like that. It's going to be another superhero universe with Jedi throwing buildings at each other, etc.

You're assuming that Lucas actually had the answers for everything Star Wars, from the sounds of it, he doesn't half as much as some fans do and what he does know seems to change all the time. I'm with Solo in thinking that a lot of the answers to questions that Lucas throws out there are just things he makes up on the spot because he never thought about it until some fan or blogger/reporter/writer asked him about it. If the Prequels are any indicator I don't think that Lucas had a detailed bible of the Star Wars universe where he had everything worked out and written in detail, there are too many contradictions and inconsistencies from the PT to the OT to suggest that.

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The Lords of the Sith book is terrific and I am really liking the Vader comic. They do seem to strongly imply Vader is less then he could have been and the Emperor is constantly testing him.

Implying is one thing but it's not the same as flat out saying that he can't.

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Implying is one thing but it's not the same as flat out saying that he can't.

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Have you read them? It's more then implied. I don't want to spoil it but rather then be too pedantic check it out first them judge since it is canon. He does do a lot of Force pushing and can leap around and run at augmented speed, though. It will be interesting to see if he ever demonstrates that prowess in Rebels.
 
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Like I said before, i'd imagine it's not that he can't literally do it, but doing so damages the electrical suit.

Emperor zapped him with force lighting as he picked him up - it killed him. Luke, meanwhile, endured much more force lightning and basically walked away. Luke may have worn vader down a bit in the fight and did whack off his hand - but he was far, far from deaths door at that point. Vader even gets up and walks back behind palps before the zapping begings and doesn't look the least worse for wear. Head 5ish seconds of force lightning was enough for him to die from it - ostensibly because it damaged the suit that was keeping him alive.
 
Like I said before, i'd imagine it's not that he can't literally do it, but doing so damages the electrical suit.

Emperor zapped him with force lighting as he picked him up - it killed him. Luke, meanwhile, endured much more force lightning and basically walked away. Luke may have worn vader down a bit in the fight and did whack off his hand - but he was far, far from deaths door at that point. Vader even gets up and walks back behind palps before the zapping begings and doesn't look the least worse for wear. Head 5ish seconds of force lightning was enough for him to die from it - ostensibly because it damaged the suit that was keeping him alive.

I can't really argue with that. However there is a romantic in me that feels that his suit was not the only thing that kept him alive. I envision that his hate, bitterness, fear, etc... enabled him to draw from the darkside the ability to survive after his injuries. The suit might have given him the ability to do physical things like walk, wield, and breathe, But it was the darkside that drove him. Sort of like a classic horror movie. We heard Palpatine speak of how the darkside can create life and even keep someone from dying. It could have been a ploy to draw in Anakin but there also might be some truth to it as well. Once he let go of the darkside and embraced the light, his soul was ready to embrace the death he had held off for so long.

...but that's just me.
 
I just find it sad that people are so quick to dismiss the person who created the entire SW universe. If that's how the fans feel we're going to be getting a wildly screwy universe if Disney figures out fans feel like that. It's going to be another superhero universe with Jedi throwing buildings at each other, etc.

You're assuming that Lucas actually had the answers for everything Star Wars, from the sounds of it, he doesn't half as much as some fans do and what he does know seems to change all the time. I'm with Solo in thinking that a lot of the answers to questions that Lucas throws out there are just things he makes up on the spot because he never thought about it until some fan or blogger/reporter/writer asked him about it. If the Prequels are any indicator I don't think that Lucas had a detailed bible of the Star Wars universe where he had everything worked out and written in detail, there are too many contradictions and inconsistencies from the PT to the OT to suggest that.

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That's basically what I'm getting at. Lucas has said a lot of stuff in offhand interviews over the last almost 40 years. Some of it has apparently contradicted himself, even. For example, at one point he said anyone could train to use the Force, but later introduced that numerical midichlorian count = better ability to use the Force. So....which is it? Or are they not contradictory? Does training build midichlorians and some folks are just naturally stronger? It's not really made clear ever, and I think a lot of that is down to two factors: (1) he's inconsistent in his conception of the Star Wars universe over the span of 40 years, and (2) he hasn't thought of an answer to literally every question, so he'll make stuff up on the spot.

I think Lucas engaged in some degree of world-building in his mind, but it wasn't on the level of someone like, say, Tolkien or George RR Martin who know what's been going on in some detail for multiple hundreds of years throughout their respective universes, in some cases going back to the very creation of said universes (e.g. the Silmarillion). What was scratched down on a yellow legal pad in 1974 doesn't necessarily equate to a grand plan that constrains or ought to constrain storytelling in 2015 and beyond. And as we've seen, he's flat-out changed his mind over time. Han shot first. No, wait. He didn't. No, wait, he shot simultaneously. No wait, they both shot, but Greedo was like a fraction of a second early.

Don't get me wrong. As a creator, it's his world to play with as he likes. But in terms of the stuff that gets produced and is treated as canon, at this point, I don't think you can take what he's said offhand as "canon." I mean, The Force Unleashed was explicitly stated to be canon at one point, and now it isn't. If that's not a pretty clear statement of "The story group determines canon," I don't know what is. They DE-canonized material, rather than simply making it clear officially that EU stuff doesn't count (when it was always kind of sketchy whether it did or didn't).

I'm also not saying that all ideas should be thrown out because Lucas thought of them. Far from it. George Lucas is a creative genius. But he's also not always 100% consistent with himself, and not literally everything he dreams up is a good idea merely because he dreamed it up. There is, as far as I know, no "Star Wars bible." Or at least, not during the Lucas era there wasn't. He himself made it clear that literally nothing was beyond him contradicting it, if he wanted to, except insofar as he couldn't literally go back in time and re-do the scenes on film. If he could have, I can almost guarantee that he'd have changed more than he did with the Special Editions, for example. And when it was his work, fine and dandy. He made the rules. But he gave up control, and quite simply, that means he doesn't make the rules anymore, and yeah, his rules can be rewritten where they get in the way of good storytelling.

I'll put it this way. Part of world-building is establishing the "rules" of the universe. For example, Jedi can't, as far as we know, fly using the Force a la Superman. The films have established that pretty clearly. But if some interview George gave years ago -- or gives in the future -- should include some offhand statement about his universe, in a way that has never been established by the "rules" of what appears on screen....I'm not inclined to let it derail future story development or require massive workarounds. If it can be respected easily, sure, include it or at least don't contradict it.

But quite simply, it's not George's sandbox anymore. He doesn't get to make the rules anymore. That doesn't mean you knock down the castle he built altogether (which, let's be clear, nobody intends to do), but it does mean that you don't have to follow his blueprint, including the elaborate-but-never-built crenelations he was going to put on at one point.
 
guys is is totally off topic but i figure i'd post here and ask, i have never watched the clone wars series, but rebels i've watched from the beginning and loved it. so my friends have talked me into watching clone wars, bootlegging it off youtube. i finish season 1 which was very hard to swallow and now at season 2 episode 7. some where early into season 2 cad bane was on a mission to steal a baby jedi.

i thought when babys were born there was a medicolorian test, and if the test was high enough the parents didnt even get to keep the baby and they went right to the jedi temple? thats what was inbeded into my brain since forever? i dont remember where i read or heard but learned it somewhere its not my own theory.

anyway, cad bane i figured was going to go to the temple and grab a baby, he went to the temple and broke into the safe that contains a list of all the baby jedi, he then hunted one down at home in its parents arms!! and tried to capture it

i didnt think any of the jedi knew their parents?!?! you never heard them mention their parents?

my point is, anikans big down fall was fear of losing his mother, i though since jedis were taken at birth they never knew their parents and never learned that feeling of love? and thats the reason yoda didnt want anikan trained because he had his mothers love?

was think lucas changing his mind again?
 
was think lucas changing his mind again?

"Think Lucas" probably lived a good sum of his post-divorce life believing that love is dead which is why his idea of the "heyday" of the Jedi was when they treated attachments like they were the worst thing that could ever happen to you.
 
I don't dispute that, but up until Lucas sold the franchise to Disney, he could makeup whatever he wanted. Just because he didn't have every detail laid out doesn't mean his ideas for the universe count any less than any other author or writer. Just because he didn't explicitly spell it out in a movie doesn't mean he didn't have an answer for something, it's just that no one asked yet. I think a lot of people are putting their own opinions and motivations onto Lucas and what he did with the SW property. Unless I'm wrong 90% of fans were never in a room with him and have never talked to him.
 
guys is is totally off topic but i figure i'd post here and ask, i have never watched the clone wars series, but rebels i've watched from the beginning and loved it. so my friends have talked me into watching clone wars, bootlegging it off youtube. i finish season 1 which was very hard to swallow and now at season 2 episode 7. some where early into season 2 cad bane was on a mission to steal a baby jedi.

i thought when babys were born there was a medicolorian test, and if the test was high enough the parents didnt even get to keep the baby and they went right to the jedi temple? thats what was inbeded into my brain since forever? i dont remember where i read or heard but learned it somewhere its not my own theory.

anyway, cad bane i figured was going to go to the temple and grab a baby, he went to the temple and broke into the safe that contains a list of all the baby jedi, he then hunted one down at home in its parents arms!! and tried to capture it

i didnt think any of the jedi knew their parents?!?! you never heard them mention their parents?

my point is, anikans big down fall was fear of losing his mother, i though since jedis were taken at birth they never knew their parents and never learned that feeling of love? and thats the reason yoda didnt want anikan trained because he had his mothers love?

was think lucas changing his mind again?

Not sure where you are getting your information and to tell you the truth, I am not sure where I am getting my information. So with that said.... I believe that Jedi can identify a potential padawan early, but they are not sent off to the academy until a certain age. I do not believe the children are taken away against their will. I would have to believe that it is probably considered in the best interest of the child to go off an learn how to properly handle what could become a dangerous power if not taught to control it properly. It may also be considered a privilege in Star Wars universe societies for a family to have a child in jedi training. There also does not seem to be anything stopping someone from leaving the order if they wanted to.

You can say a lot of things about the Jedi and what they have become at the time of the prequels. Sure they have become cocky and over confident and that has caused them to lose some of their control over the force, unaware of the return of the sith, and caused issues with attitudes of the latest batches of Padawans. But even with all that, I do not see Lucas or Dave Filoni allowing Jedi to just take babies/children away from parents without permission.
 
I don't dispute that, but up until Lucas sold the franchise to Disney, he could makeup whatever he wanted. Just because he didn't have every detail laid out doesn't mean his ideas for the universe count any less than any other author or writer. Just because he didn't explicitly spell it out in a movie doesn't mean he didn't have an answer for something, it's just that no one asked yet. I think a lot of people are putting their own opinions and motivations onto Lucas and what he did with the SW property. Unless I'm wrong 90% of fans were never in a room with him and have never talked to him.

Right. If you look at different drafts of the films, you can see GL was changing and developing ideas throughout. I think as time goes by, his thoughts and ideas change as well. For instance, Lucas intended for the final ground battle to be Wookiees on Kashyyyk but when Return of the Jedi came around Chewbacca proved to be a very advanced species. The battle against the Empire was suppose to be with the Rebels and a primitive culture. So the woks were created. So while GL might have conflicting answerers to questions, the trick is to find his most recent answer. I would not expect any creative person to be a slave to his original thoughts and ideas.
 
For instance, Lucas intended for the final ground battle to be Wookiees on Kashyyyk but when Return of the Jedi came around Chewbacca proved to be a very advanced species. The battle against the Empire was suppose to be with the Rebels and a primitive culture. So the woks were created.

As I mentioned in another thread, that decision was dumb. Before the Disney acquisition, the Empire was established as using slave labor to do their work and the Wookies played a large role in slave force. The idea of the band of rebels bumping into a group of escaped/abandoned Wookies on Endor would have given the film a much more logical ally. Both that could give the rebels knowledge of the complex and it's weaknesses and the primitive methods the Wookies have used to survive on their own. Just because the Wookies are an advanced species doesn't mean they cannot be stripped of advance technology. I mean, look at us humans. We've built space stations yet there are still human cultures who willingly don't use technology or can't due to their distant isolation. Plus having it be Wookies instead of Ewoks could have given Star Wars an opportunity to expand on a pre-established race that we've barely gotten to know anything about.
 
As I mentioned in another thread, that decision was dumb. Before the Disney acquisition, the Empire was established as using slave labor to do their work and the Wookies played a large role in slave force. The idea of the band of rebels bumping into a group of escaped/abandoned Wookies on Endor would have given the film a much more logical ally. Both that could give the rebels knowledge of the complex and it's weaknesses and the primitive methods the Wookies have used to survive on their own. Just because the Wookies are an advanced species doesn't mean they cannot be stripped of advance technology. I mean, look at us humans. We've built space stations yet there are still human cultures who willingly don't use technology or can't due to their distant isolation. Plus having it be Wookies instead of Ewoks could have given Star Wars an opportunity to expand on a pre-established race that we've barely gotten to know anything about.

Ewoks rock. Get over it already.
 
Not sure where you are getting your information and to tell you the truth, I am not sure where I am getting my information. So with that said.... I believe that Jedi can identify a potential padawan early, but they are not sent off to the academy until a certain age. I do not believe the children are taken away against their will. I would have to believe that it is probably considered in the best interest of the child to go off an learn how to properly handle what could become a dangerous power if not taught to control it properly. It may also be considered a privilege in Star Wars universe societies for a family to have a child in jedi training. There also does not seem to be anything stopping someone from leaving the order if they wanted to.

You can say a lot of things about the Jedi and what they have become at the time of the prequels. Sure they have become cocky and over confident and that has caused them to lose some of their control over the force, unaware of the return of the sith, and caused issues with attitudes of the latest batches of Padawans. But even with all that, I do not see Lucas or Dave Filoni allowing Jedi to just take babies/children away from parents without permission.


thanks for clearing that up, i dont know why but for the longest time thats what i always belived and like i said i dont remember where or who told me, but i know i didnt make it up. so where ever i got my information was wrong, never really thought about how jedi could leave the academy if they wanted too. just funny how the jedi we have seen so far besides luke have never mentioned their familys. thanks for ur advice
 
Ewoks rock. Get over it already.

Why are you telling me to get over it? I posted in the Force Awakens thread four days ago about the possibility of Ewoks returning for the new films and even said that despite my feelings that the Ewoks were a mistake, they're a mistake I can live with. Ewoks can be awesome.
 
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