STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

[glunark]

See I always thought bringing balance to the force meant equal numbers of Sith and Jedi.

Two sith, Vader and Palps, two Jedi, Obi Wan and Yoda.

Before when there was two sith and hundreds of Jedi it was out of balance, and that is why the dark siders seemed more powerful, they had half the force to tap into between just the two of them, while hundreds of Jedi were drinking from the same well, and only had a weaker amount.

As the Jedi died in order 66 those that survived grew stronger in the force, which is why Yoda couldn't defeat Palps, but Palps didn't win either, and why the Obi Wan Anakin fight was so dragged out.

Years later when Luke became active in the force Ben as he was then, knew that to maintain the balance in the force, he had to go, so he made his sacrifice willingly.

And years after that when Liea summoned enough force strength to strangle a Hutt, Yoda knew it was time for him to go too.

Now with Vader and Palpatine gone the force is not in balance, with no sith and two Jedi, and only one of those trained, the entire force would be at the hands of one young man, and who knows how that turned out?

Well hopefully all of us in December.

 

[Solo4114]

Folks, I think we can chalk up George's statements as simply "all over the place." There are certain consistent themes in them, but the details tended to wander from moment to moment, much, I think, like his overall conception of the films. Hence all the edits. I don't know that it's necessarily weak writing, so much as inconsistent conceptualization. The writing, I suspect, reflected what it needed to reflect to get across GL's ideas in the moment. But then the moment changed, and he had a different idea, and wasn't about to let his previous conception (even if embodied in a scene on film) get in the way of the new idea. Of all the aspects of the Star Wars films and franchise, the one truly consistent thing that I've seen is George's absolutely unflinching commitment to the author retaining flexibility to change things as he goes. Special effects, musical cues, character backgrounds, plot points, exposition...all of it is up for changing. We can hazard guesses as to why he did that, but

Now, the inconsistencies can usually be explained away to some degree, but some stuff is just...internally inconsistent and the explanation for it requires some serious leaps of logic, which still don't always work.

Ultimately, I think what you have to do is...ignore what George says, or at least, just pick one line of thought and go with it. I expect the Story Group will figure this out and make its own decisions, irrespective of what George said in Interview #238 vs. what he said in Interview #493. There's so much he's said that doesn't seem to track, and the PT and OT don't seem to track to themselves either, so I figure they'll just say "Screw it. We'll go with what we think works." It'll all be based on stuff he said, but it won't let itself be contradicted by something else he said, or at least it won't view everything he said as being binding and therefore having to be sorted out so as to maintain consistency with all of it.

 

[Edwardowan]

I saw the balance of the force a little different... it wasn't about numbers or an equal count of sith and Jedi... (how would it be possible to keep an even amount of... and if there were as many sith as jedi there would be major turmoil without end... it was about the balance of power and the force was out of balance due to the Sith being supremely evil and overshadowing and canceling out the good. The dark side got too overwhelmingly powerful and controlling even with just two of them. two against thousands of Jedi... the Jedi brought lightsabers to a force lightening fight!

the balance was tipping too heavy to the dark side... it was fine and dandy with the Sith existing until Palpatine started his final all out plan of war and putting the republic and the seperatists against each other so Sidious could be in a position to decare himself emperor and rule them all as he saw fit. The Jedi didn't seek ultimate power and control like the Sith. Once Palpatine and Vader perished that "out of balance dark side" was gone.. but that didn't mean the force was back in balance... I suppose it was out of balance in the opposite direction now... and a new dark side although less powerful had to develop for the force to "awaken" and now there is balance... good vs. evil... Ying and Yang sort of thing...

See I always thought bringing balance to the force meant equal numbers of Sith and Jedi.

Two sith, Vader and Palps, two Jedi, Obi Wan and Yoda.

Before when there was two sith and hundreds of Jedi it was out of balance, and that is why the dark siders seemed more powerful, they had half the force to tap into between just the two of them, while hundreds of Jedi were drinking from the same well, and only had a weaker amount.

As the Jedi died in order 66 those that survived grew stronger in the force, which is why Yoda couldn't defeat Palps, but Palps didn't win either, and why the Obi Wan Anakin fight was so dragged out.

Years later when Luke became active in the force Ben as he was then, knew that to maintain the balance in the force, he had to go, so he made his sacrifice willingly.

And years after that when Liea summoned enough force strength to strangle a Hutt, Yoda knew it was time for him to go too.

Now with Vader and Palpatine gone the force is not in balance, with no sith and two Jedi, and only one of those trained, the entire force would be at the hands of one young man, and who knows how that turned out?

Well hopefully all of us in December.

 

[cboath]

And where do jedi fall who leave the order? They could be good, the could be bad, or they could straddle the line.

One of the failings of the prequels was that they never explained what balance was. Just that the chosen one would bring balance. Uh, ok..ask the average moviegoer what they believe balance is. They're likely to say same number on both sides, not the absence of one. And you know, that's not to say that absence isn't what was meant - the problem was, it was never communicated to the audience. That was supposedly a fundamental part of the overall story. You've got to explain your fundamentals to the point the audience knows what they are. And, if the prophecy is supposed to not be fullfilled until the end of ROTJ...oy...there's zero mention of it in the OT as it is. That's because the prophecy wasn't a part of the story by 1983. It may have had it's origination in earlier drafts, but it was tossed aside. That's really beside the point. I think George has said enough in interviews and whatnot to understand what he meant. The problem is, what he meant should have come across on screen and it did not. And that's where the arguments come from today - nowhere does balance equate to the absence of 1 of 2 parts. It's always equal amounts of both creates the balance. If he waned the dark side gone completely to correct things - he should have chosen another word. Cleanliness or something....though 'Cleanliness of the Force' doesn't really have a good ring to it

 

[Edwardowan]

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I'm going to stop you right there. Using George Lucas as a valid source is a losing battle since what he usually says are things he never stands by. Biggest example? His own work! THX-1138, American Graffiti, Star Wars, all went through some post-release modifications per his instructions. The original trilogy of Star Wars have had drastic changes in almost every home video format they've been released on. He even has his own studio lie to the fans about the condition of the original versions of the film, going so far as to say they no longer exist. And if you listen to his prequel commentaries, he makes these set ups about how the next movie is going to explore new areas*that the current movie brought up. Episode II will delve into the prophecy (It only got one mention) and Episode III will uncover who was behind the deletion of Kamino and Sifo Dias (Never brought up).

Now I'm not trying to say that a person can't change their mind about something, but in the case of George Lucas, it's obvious even he doesn't know what he wants even when he tries.

Well I don't know what to tell you to answer anything you ask then. If you can't except the explanation from the guy who made it up, then good luck. For some reason people think that they know SW better than the guy who created it. I'm not pointing solely at you, just fans in general.

 

[Jeyl]

Well I don't know what to tell you to answer anything you ask then. If you can't except the explanation from the guy who made it up, then good luck. For some reason people think that they know SW better than the guy who created it. I'm not pointing solely at you, just fans in general.

I am not standing on a pedestal declaring that I know more about Star Wars than Lucas does. Even if I did, who cares? I may know where Missile Boats come from, but that's hardly vindication for knowing what's best for Star Wars. I understand Lucas' intent, I just don't believe he did a good job executing it.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I think Qui-Gon's case would have been a thousand times stronger if he'd just mentioned Anakin's Force potential and basically said "if we don't train him, we'll have a wild talent out there". No midichlorians, no prophecy, no Chosen One... and no "balancing" the Force. In my opinion, the Force, by dint of it being the freaking Force, is balanced. Those who wield it are not necessarily... Jedi or Sith.

--Jonah

 

[Edwardowan]

agreed... I think GL was trying to make Star Wars deeper than it needed to be... he was already "too old" and attached to begin the training... at this point I'm going to move forward with Episode 7, see how much of the prequel legacy is incorporated or if it is just a continuation of the OT... The force surrounds all living things, binds the galaxy together..... no need to make it about prophecy, scripture, immaculate conception by the force midichlorians... just a natural ability and Anakin being a manipulated pawn of the Sith.

I think Qui-Gon's case would have been a thousand times stronger if he'd just mentioned Anakin's Force potential and basically said "if we don't train him, we'll have a wild talent out there". No midichlorians, no prophecy, no Chosen One... and no "balancing" the Force. In my opinion, the Force, by dint of it being the freaking Force, is balanced. Those who wield it are not necessarily... Jedi or Sith.

--Jonah

 

[Solo4114]

My own take on the "balance" thing was that it was less about numbers and more about the approach to the Force in terms of emotional engagement.

The Jedi of the PT era were all basically taught to be emotionless and almost ascetic in their approach to using the Force. The Sith were basically unbridled passion, and drew their power from that passion. The "balance" necessary was the ability to allow oneself to fully feel emotion, but not allow oneself to be ruled by emotion. This also helps explain why the Jedi were so ill-equipped to deal with Anakin. They couldn't relate to him at all because they'd all be emotionless and rational for so long, whereas Anakin was just full of anger, fear, and passion.

Balance is restored by Anakin...but indirectly, through his children. Luke's relationship with the Force is more connected to emotion. Luke has emotional ties. He has friends he cares about deeply. He feels love, albeit familial and friendly love. But he doesn't let it all control him, either. He feels passion, but he knows how to walk away from it. When he has Vader at his mercy, he literally casts his weapon aside, refusing to allow himself to give in to his anger and kill his own father.


Now, I expect that, with the title of "The Force Awakens" we're gonna see that my theory is....wrong. Balance is probably more about dualism in the sense that, with the destruction of the Sith entirely, and the loss of most of the Jedi except for Luke, usage of the Force has dwindled to the point where there's basically nobody left to use it...until you start having a few VERY powerful Force users -- good and bad -- who feed off each other, and give rise to more of a spread of the Force.

I'm hoping we also see that the whole midichlorian thing was the Jedi being affirmatively WRONG about how the Force works.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I agree utterly, @Solo4114. I'd always maintained that the most "balanced" Jedi we saw in the Prequels was Qui-Gon. Probably why he was on the outs with the Council. I've always, always felt that the balance was within each individual Force-user to find. A bit like the actual Grail -- the knightly ideal that was a lifelong pursuit, from the old word meaning 'path'. One day at a time, one encounter at a time, etc. I like the idea that Padawans and young Knights are denied possessions or relationships... until they're old enough to demonstrate they've attained the wisdom to have such things without getting caught up in the fear of losing them.

I'm hoping we also see that the whole midichlorian thing was the Jedi being affirmatively WRONG about how the Force works.

Yeah. Something like correlation versus causation? People who are strong in the Force have a lot of midichlorians, but the midichlorians are a side-effect of sorts?

--Jonah

 

[Solo4114]

Yeah. Something like correlation versus causation? People who are strong in the Force have a lot of midichlorians, but the midichlorians are a side-effect of sorts?

--Jonah

Exactly. The midichlorians don't let you control the Force. They're just some biosignature that happens to be detectable in potential Force-users. Or maybe they don't even actually exist, and what was being detected was something else entirely or something. It's kind of a moot point, since the discussion never comes up again in the films and hasn't shown up in Rebels yet.

Speaking of Rebels, I'm curious as to who the balance/training thing is gonna play out with Ezra. He seems a lot more emotional, as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah. Something like correlation versus causation? People who are strong in the Force have a lot of midichlorians, but the midichlorians are a side-effect of sorts?

--Jonah

Exactly. The midichlorians don't let you control the Force. They're just some biosignature that happens to be detectable in potential Force-users. Or maybe they don't even actually exist, and what was being detected was something else entirely or something. It's kind of a moot point, since the discussion never comes up again in the films and hasn't shown up in Rebels yet.

Speaking of Rebels, I'm curious as to who the balance/training thing is gonna play out with Ezra. He seems a lot more emotional, as well.

 

[MooCriket]

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/31j8zr/spoilers_all_a_compilation_of_everything_we_know/
Can't wait for season two!

 

[Victor3]

Exactly. The midichlorians don't let you control the Force. They're just some biosignature that happens to be detectable in potential Force-users. Or maybe they don't even actually exist, and what was being detected was something else entirely or something.

Right, there's no question that there's a relationship between the MC count and an individual's force-wielding potential. The problem is that the only interpretation of this comes from Qui-Gon. There may not be a scientifically verified causation, and what Qui-Gon tells Anakin may just be his own personal opinion. It's also shown that the other Jedi are wary of Qui-Gon's philosophical ideas, and they may also just treat the MC's as a diagnostic.

QGJ: "I believe he was conceived by the Midichlorians."
Y & MW Unspoken: "Sure, Qui. Yeah, that's totally it... WTF?"

I don't mind their presence in the saga, but without further elaboration in the movies their inclusion was unnecessary. Qui-Gon could have just FELT his potential, and believed he was spawned by the Force itself.

And for that matter, why does everyone know Yoda's MC count? Are there no HIPPA laws in the Old Republic? Or does he go around bragging about it?
"Check it, you must, Aayla. Can lift this X-wing all night, I can. 400 Midichlorian count, do I have. Impressed you will be. You will be...."

 

[Solo4114]

Right, there's no question that there's a relationship between the MC count and an individual's force-wielding potential. The problem is that the only interpretation of this comes from Qui-Gon. There may not be a scientifically verified causation, and what Qui-Gon tells Anakin may just be his own personal opinion. It's also shown that the other Jedi are wary of Qui-Gon's philosophical ideas, and they may also just treat the MC's as a diagnostic.

QGJ: "I believe he was conceived by the Midichlorians."
Y & MW Unspoken: "Sure, Qui. Yeah, that's totally it... WTF?"

I don't mind their presence in the saga, but without further elaboration in the movies their inclusion was unnecessary. Qui-Gon could have just FELT his potential, and believed he was spawned by the Force itself.

Frankly, I thought the "spawned by the Force" and especially the "Palpatine may have made that happen" things were...a mistake to include. They added nothing to the story except confusion.

And for that matter, why does everyone know Yoda's MC count? Are there no HIPPA laws in the Old Republic? Or does he go around bragging about it?
"Check it, you must, Aayla. Can lift this X-wing all night, I can. 400 Midichlorian count, do I have. Impressed you will be. You will be...."

(psssst....it's HIPAA...but good call. :lol)

 

[Victor3]

Frankly, I thought the "spawned by the Force" and especially the "Palpatine may have made that happen" things were...a mistake to include. They added nothing to the story except confusion.

Well, yes. That too was largely unimportant to the story, and would've saved a lot of confusion and SpaceJesus comparisons. One thing at a time, lest we go down this road again...

Back to Rebels, while a little clunky at times, it really does feel like the OT, constantly moving forward, if not always swiftly.
Having just finished the plodding, non-linear political arc of CW:S3, Rebels is definitely "Faster & More Intense" - even when wandering in the grass of Lothal.

 

[Solo4114]

Yeah, I've really enjoyed the speed and vibe of Rebels.

Although, I have to say, from the recent Filioni interview, I'm a little...wary about next season being "more like ESB" and "some parents will be angry..." stuff. Basically, my concern is this: Rebels is the leading edge of the Disney spearhead into its most important marketing demographic: kids. Make no mistake, without kids to drive this franchise, it will not thrive the way older fans want it to. So, my concern is that by switching to a darker or more "down-note" tone, Rebels may smother the goodwill it's generated before it really has a chance to take off.

Like, basically, I want to sit down with my 5-year-old nephew and watch Rebels while we play with his Rebels Lego sets or action figures or whatever. With the first season, I'm pretty sure I can do that. But if next season is all dark and stuff? I dunno...he's a sensitive kid and had difficulty watching ANH all the way through without getting a little overwhelmed. Can he handle a darker version of Rebels, where main characters die? Will he still want to play with the Lego sets if, say, Kanan is killed midway through Season 2, or turns to the Dark Side or something? Sure, the older fans and the teenagers will dig it, but will the younger fans?

Right now, Disney needs something in the kids demographic to keep things moving. If they suddenly "go dark" with their story -- coupled with however dark the new film will be -- are they going to hurt that effort?

 

[Bryancd]

I think CW managed to find a balance between being very kid friendly but still telling some darker stories, I would expect him to be able to shepard Rebels the same way. I also think the creative team will continue to err on the side of kid friendly content. I always contend this is a kids show and will continue to service that demographic.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I was a sensitive kid, saw Empire in the theater at age 5 in 1980, felt let down by ROTJ in 1983 when I was in 3rd grade. Empire was, when I was a kid, my favorite, darker tone and all. Most of my Star Wars toys were from Empire -- especially the Hoth stuff. I had Empire sheets, and coveted (but could never find) the Boba Fett Underoos. Kids can handle darker. What matters most is how it's presented. Kids like good stories, whatever is being conveyed. If it's well-told, most parents (and kids) should be fine with season two of Rebels. Those that aren't are most likely the sorts of parents who object to Bridge to Terebithia (book or movie) and generally treat their children like mental defectives who must be insulated from the world, and not just small human beings.

The galaxy is well into its descent into Darkness. The Empire is well-established, they've been working the propeganda machine for a decade and a half, and they're stepping up their excesses in seeking to control everything and everyone. Enslavement, executions, genocide... and only a few years off from destroying whole planets to make a point. Vader (and the Emperor's other emissaries) are hunting down and killing Jedi. I have to give the production crew credit for starting with and keeping as light a tone as they did for so long when it's generally a frikkin' dark setting.

--Jonah

 

[Bryancd]

In regards to midiclorines, GL said in two separate interviews before his departure that they were indicators if Force potential and the more skilled a person became in accessing the Force, the higher their count would become. So he left open the door that with training, many people could learn to use the Force.