Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)
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cboath
Master Member
The video is up there....he sees Anakin being called Darth Vader or Lord Vader in RoTS, unless we want to start saying Darth Vader is close to John Smith in terms of names, that would be your conclusion right there.
I thought it was pretty damn cold hearted to leave anakin there at the end of RoTS. You either put him out of his misery, get him medical help and put him on trial or something. You don't just leave him. Especially if you were 'brothers'. I don't think you need to see him seeing him in the suit and going 'he survived?'. But it does seem pretty clear that will happen in this. Was it needed? no. Will it hurt? it shouldn't, but with their current history, we'll have to see.
When Obi sees the video of Anakin becoming Darth Vader is not the same as when Obi realizes Anakin survived their fight and has now become the person in the black armor. That second bit is what I'm talking about. We, the audience, have never seen that. Even though there are at least 2 references in the OT indicating that it happened sometime between the events of ROTS and ANH. So, them meeting in this series makes sense and it's pretty integral to the character of Obi Wan that he sees what Anakin has become due to his action/inaction. This whole idea of Obi and Anakin/Vader never having crossed paths since ROTS until their duel on the Death Star in ANH is #1 total fan mythology and #2 not supported anywhere in any canon film, novel, or other media.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
Well, unless Obi-wan somehow doesn't realize that the black armored dude is called "Darth Vader", then he certainly should know it's Anakin since he knows that "Vader" is Anakin's Sith name.
While not spelled out, it's most certainly implied in the OT that Vader and Obi-wan haven't seen each other in a long time. Even Tarkin says "surely he (Obi-wan) must be dead by now..." That certainly implies to me that Obi-wan hasn't been seen in a long time and even the Empire doesn't know for sure what ever happened to him. Now I suppose Vader can say "Uh, actually I just saw him like a few years ago and he was fine..."
I guess the "presence I've not felt since..." is actually just Vader referring to them seeing each other a few years prior. Maybe it's just something Vader says every time Obi-wan is around. Who knows? Maybe they've encountered each other dozens of times since there's nothing in the OT that directly says otherwise. Lol!
Why would Vader tell Obi-wan that "he was but the learner" when he left him when they have apparently already met up before ANH? That would've been something to say upon their first meeting, not a later one. It's true that the OT doesn't spell out exactly how long it had been since they'd last seen each other but certainly the implication was it was a long time ago and not since Vader had left Obi-wan all those years ago. This is just another example of Disney over-complicating a simple thing and exploiting a "technicality" to create content where it just isn't necessary. For me, the whole show is a good example of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". For me, it's far more epic thematically if Obi-wan's reunion with Anakin was in ANH. It would also be less jarring that Obi-wan's fighting prowess has diminished considerably over 20+ years than it will be if he had some epic duel with Vader just a few years prior. I guess those last few years must've been awfully rough on Obi-wan.
However, for me, this new Vader/Obi-wan reunion in this show could at least have a small silver lining. While I'm always amused at the popularity RotS seems to have, especially lately among a certain demographic, it still is a mess even if it is the best of the PT. With that in mind, assuming the Vader/Obi-wan meetup isn't just a vision or dream sequence, their meeting up again in this show could somewhat "fix" RotS and prove Vader's words in RotJ true, in regards to Obi-wan trying to bring him back. As it is in RotS, Obi-wan didn't try very hard and is basically like "welp, you gotta die!", ultimately just leaving his "brother" to slowly burn to death in a lava field. That never felt right to me at all, especially given the dialogue in the OT. I really feel like George either forgot a lot of what he had written prior or he was in such a rush to get things wrapped up, he just slapped it all together and glossed over previously established details.
While I've long disagreed that this show should've happened, potentially "fixing" some aspects of RotS is at least one potential positive to come out of all this. I just hope it doesn't "break" or undermine a lot of other stuff in the process.
While not spelled out, it's most certainly implied in the OT that Vader and Obi-wan haven't seen each other in a long time. Even Tarkin says "surely he (Obi-wan) must be dead by now..." That certainly implies to me that Obi-wan hasn't been seen in a long time and even the Empire doesn't know for sure what ever happened to him. Now I suppose Vader can say "Uh, actually I just saw him like a few years ago and he was fine..."
I guess the "presence I've not felt since..." is actually just Vader referring to them seeing each other a few years prior. Maybe it's just something Vader says every time Obi-wan is around. Who knows? Maybe they've encountered each other dozens of times since there's nothing in the OT that directly says otherwise. Lol!
Why would Vader tell Obi-wan that "he was but the learner" when he left him when they have apparently already met up before ANH? That would've been something to say upon their first meeting, not a later one. It's true that the OT doesn't spell out exactly how long it had been since they'd last seen each other but certainly the implication was it was a long time ago and not since Vader had left Obi-wan all those years ago. This is just another example of Disney over-complicating a simple thing and exploiting a "technicality" to create content where it just isn't necessary. For me, the whole show is a good example of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". For me, it's far more epic thematically if Obi-wan's reunion with Anakin was in ANH. It would also be less jarring that Obi-wan's fighting prowess has diminished considerably over 20+ years than it will be if he had some epic duel with Vader just a few years prior. I guess those last few years must've been awfully rough on Obi-wan.
However, for me, this new Vader/Obi-wan reunion in this show could at least have a small silver lining. While I'm always amused at the popularity RotS seems to have, especially lately among a certain demographic, it still is a mess even if it is the best of the PT. With that in mind, assuming the Vader/Obi-wan meetup isn't just a vision or dream sequence, their meeting up again in this show could somewhat "fix" RotS and prove Vader's words in RotJ true, in regards to Obi-wan trying to bring him back. As it is in RotS, Obi-wan didn't try very hard and is basically like "welp, you gotta die!", ultimately just leaving his "brother" to slowly burn to death in a lava field. That never felt right to me at all, especially given the dialogue in the OT. I really feel like George either forgot a lot of what he had written prior or he was in such a rush to get things wrapped up, he just slapped it all together and glossed over previously established details.
While I've long disagreed that this show should've happened, potentially "fixing" some aspects of RotS is at least one potential positive to come out of all this. I just hope it doesn't "break" or undermine a lot of other stuff in the process.
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CT1138
Sr Member
In the old EU, a lot of early Imperial officers (gravely) mistook Vader for being some new class of droid. It's not far fetched for Obi-Wan not to realize who's in the suit at first.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
I remember that but surely Obi-wan of all people could sense who it is. Even barring that, unless Vader's name is some state secret, Obi-wan would have a good idea who it was from the name alone. "Holy Sith! These news reports are calling this guy 'Lord Vader'!!! Wasn't that Anakin's new name???"
CT1138
Sr Member
Not if they don't meet in person (which I still have doubts they will). I would imagine hearing it third person is the only way he finds out. Like, the Inquisitors mention Vader, and he knows.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
Right. Like I said, unless it's a secret, Obi-wan has surely heard the name by now. Either namedropped by someone or in some holonet news report in a cantina somewhere. I'm pretty sure it's a forgone conclusion they are physically meeting but I'd be just fine if it was only a vision.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
I do think from the PT to OT, we sort of extrapolate that Obi Wan and Darth Vader didnt meet for a while. I do think having Episode 3 being the last time they meet and fight is also fitting because it is the culmination of the tragedy of Anakin, that he has turned so evil and unrecognizable that his own master and brother slew him.
I feel ANH dialogue also implies they havent met for a long time, I do guess that one fight between them could make sense.
Vader: When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the Master.
Technically Anakin, now Vader, left Obi Wan along with the Jedi when he switched to the Dark side and fought Obi Wan when he was newly converted and not a "student" of the Dark side yet. He could meet Obi Wan again during the series as part of his training, maybe trying to convince Obi Wan to join him, and fights again where its more equal and Vader "leaves." Their final confrontation, Vader is now a "Master" of the Dark side and is open to taking Obi Wan as his dark side apprentice (hence the circle). Convoluted but have to be in this case.
I feel ANH dialogue also implies they havent met for a long time, I do guess that one fight between them could make sense.
Vader: When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the Master.
Technically Anakin, now Vader, left Obi Wan along with the Jedi when he switched to the Dark side and fought Obi Wan when he was newly converted and not a "student" of the Dark side yet. He could meet Obi Wan again during the series as part of his training, maybe trying to convince Obi Wan to join him, and fights again where its more equal and Vader "leaves." Their final confrontation, Vader is now a "Master" of the Dark side and is open to taking Obi Wan as his dark side apprentice (hence the circle). Convoluted but have to be in this case.
cboath
Master Member
By ANH it's been nearly 20 years. You don't see someone for a couple years its 'hey i haven't seen you in a long time'. Just saying.
The only real line as i recall is 'when i left you i was the learner, but now I AM the master'...The inference being he was his student when they last met. You could also spin it as he was just learning how to deal with being in the suit as well I suppose. I can't imagine you go from left to dead missing an arm and two legs to being 'just fine' and 100% as soon as the procedure is over.
The only real line as i recall is 'when i left you i was the learner, but now I AM the master'...The inference being he was his student when they last met. You could also spin it as he was just learning how to deal with being in the suit as well I suppose. I can't imagine you go from left to dead missing an arm and two legs to being 'just fine' and 100% as soon as the procedure is over.
2 months out now, when do you think we will start seeing Kenobi merch pimpage?
Yeah, I read an interview with Kathleen Kennedy *waits for boos to die down* and she said that the Vader we see in this is not the Vader in ANH. He's still learning to deal with the suit and being a Sith Lord. So that line could actually work in retrospect if they face off in this show and then, like in the Rise of Darth Vader book, Vader isn't used to fighting in his suit, that would explain him saying he was a learner that last time they met. It could turn out to be one of those lines, like in the Prequels, that actually makes something make more sense afterwards.
I mean technically we knew that before ROTS as well. Still an epic duel.
I think the key difference is that it's hard to imagine a scenario where the emotional stakes between Obi-Wan and Anakin will be as high as they were in either ROTS or ANH. We all knew going into ROTS what would happen to Anakin but we didn't know how it would play itself out and I suspect none of us guessed just how violent it would be. Whether you liked the prequels or not, seeing Anakin burned alive was downright brutal. Likewise we know in ANH that Obi-Wan will sacrifice himself to give Luke, Han, and Leia the chance to escape. So we've already witnessed the deaths of the two characters and while Anakin may have technically survived the fight in ROTS, what little good was left in him died until Luke came along.
Is it cool in theory to know we'll see Ewan and Hayden face off again? Sure. Though how well it'll play out is such a risk in my mind because what could possibly be so profound a story that it would warrant a face off that could rival those aforementioned bookends? The reason I ask is because in Kennedy's own words it will be the "rematch of the century." That's promising a lot and suggests that there is something truly special about this fight. One would hope that it's not just because they came up with some fancy new choreography, but because it will actually mean something to the story and in turn will move the audience.
Is it cool in theory to know we'll see Ewan and Hayden face off again? Sure. Though how well it'll play out is such a risk in my mind because what could possibly be so profound a story that it would warrant a face off that could rival those aforementioned bookends? The reason I ask is because in Kennedy's own words it will be the "rematch of the century." That's promising a lot and suggests that there is something truly special about this fight. One would hope that it's not just because they came up with some fancy new choreography, but because it will actually mean something to the story and in turn will move the audience.
joberg
Legendary Member
Or "Dwaine" when I'm the kitchen sink
Fair, I think what other people have mentioned would be the main way to make it emotionally potent. That is, going off the “Obi-Wan once thought as you did” and making this fight about Ben trying to bring Anakin back, which He never really did in ROTS.
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